# another "white" Oscars - does it matter\>? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 14, 2016, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-white-oscars-does-it-matter/743169 "2016-01-14T21:48:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![sciurophobic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@sciurophobic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sciurophobic)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2016, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-white-oscars-does-it-matter/743169/181 "2016-01-20T13:39:08Z")
> [@John\_Bredin](#): > > _Twelve Years a Slave_; while the bio (book) was best-seller-ish at the time, I’d say it was obscure in the 20th-21st Centuries until the movie came out. You’re right. I also just remembered Will Smith was also nominated for _The Pursuit of Happyness_. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2016, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-white-oscars-does-it-matter/743169/182 "2016-01-20T14:23:48Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > I saw Mad Max in 2015 as well. It stars a white man and white woman, the villain is white, almost all of his army/followers are white. He has a black sex slave/white, but only one of 5-6 wives. She may be the only visibly black character in the whole film. _Mad Max: Fury Road_ is an Australian film set in Australia. “This movie doesn’t have enough African-Americans in it” really isn’t a sensible complaint. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2016, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-white-oscars-does-it-matter/743169/183 "2016-01-20T17:17:11Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Hispanic people are a larger percentage of the American population and are far less represented than black actors in the nominations. So, you’re wrong. No I’m not wrong, because I haven’t been asked about Hispanics. And my answer to you is the same, they are probably also being marginalized by the Oscars. You assumed that because I didn’t mention Hispanics that I’m fine with them being shut out of the Oscars, but I’m not. They are too big of a group to not have any representation. However, I will admit that I don’t know if there are any this year. The story has so far been about blacks and articles cite stats on how rare they’ve been and how they’ve been shut out this year. I haven’t read any articles yet that talked about Hispanics so there may be a lot this year, I don’t know. But don’t assume things just because I didn’t talk about it ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2016, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-white-oscars-does-it-matter/743169/184 "2016-01-20T20:46:42Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Indian Americans are less than 1 percent of the population. They are statistically below the margin of error, so you cannot hold them up as an accurate measurement because we don’t have a large enough sampling size. On the other hand, African Americans are 13% of the population, yet they didn’t get nominated once in 24 categories? You could throw darts at a board blindfolded and hit a 13% area at least once. When the difference is that lopsided, something fishy’s going on. Unless you simply think blacks are not talented enough to win awards. > > Asians themselves are only about 6% of the population so again, very small sampling size. And yeah, I do think there’s a bias against Asians too so there’s another bit of discrimination there as well. But even though Asians do well economically, they are over represented in certain industries, like medicine. It may be that there simply isn’t as big of a desire for Asians to get into Hollywood as there is for blacks and whites, I don’t know, but again, small sampling coupled with skewed career paths makes it a little more understandable. Besides, you’ve misrepresented the stats. Black writers/producers/directors etc., not just actors, did not get nominated this year. Yet you limited the Oscar discussion for Asians to just actors. Why? Ang Lee won for Best Director in 2006 and 2012. The complaint about blacks is that they weren’t even nominated for anything else. > > I’m not trying to say they must win 13% of the Oscars or get nominated every year. I’m saying when you take 13% of the people and reduce their contributions to 0, then there’s something other than random chance going on. Some years they’ll do better than average, some years they’ll do worse, but from 13 to 0 is a statistically significant shift that didn’t happen by random chance. My question is simply what is it that caused it then? > > Where are you getting that young black men are more aggressive? And did you think to compare that to their economic situation? > > Kung Fu is misleading. Asians are allegedly experts, but the stereotype also extends to kung fu masters being peaceful and calm and only attacking when they need to defend themselves or others (or avenging the death of their master). Given that stereotype, there’s not much negatives to go in and change. Indian Americans and Asian americans are the highest achieving minorities in terms of both economics and staying out of prison. They achieved this in spite of being woefully unrepresented at the movies. If all the nominees for acting Oscars next year are black it will have no effect on the black community at all except for the bad effect of encouraging more black young people to go into acting. I am getting the fact that young black men are more aggressive, by looking at the crime statistics which show that they are 3% of the population and commit about 30% of all violent crime in this country. Your knowledge of kung fu movies is incomplete. For every peaceful kung fu master only trying to avenge the death of his master, there is an evil kung fu master who has an army of ninjas, all of which are asian. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2016, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-white-oscars-does-it-matter/743169/185 "2016-01-20T21:05:57Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Nobody “cares”, or rather notices the lack of other ethnic groups because those other ethnic groups are far less numerous. That’s what you said. I hadn’t asked you about anything about any particular ethnic group and you responded with that. You made a mistake. Just accept it rather than wriggle. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2016, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-white-oscars-does-it-matter/743169/186 "2016-01-20T22:42:26Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > That’s what you said. I hadn’t asked you about anything about any particular ethnic group and you responded with that. You made a mistake. Just accept it rather than wriggle. Because I didn’t off the top of my head know how much hispanics make up the US. And also, my mind was on minorities like Native Americans, South East Asians, Muslims, etc. I forgot to consider hispanics. > [@puddleglum](#): > > Indian Americans and Asian americans are the highest achieving minorities in terms of both economics and staying out of prison. They achieved this in spite of being woefully unrepresented at the movies. And I specifically said its not the end all, be all. [#73](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19020282&postcount=73) > [@](#): > > I’m in no way saying a few black Oscars would fix this, but it would be a step in the right direction if we had better, more balanced representation of minorities and we didn’t think of blacks as thugs, or women as objects. Maybe if people didn’t see blacks as aggressive, we wouldn’t have as many white officers shooting young black men. So, not a fix, but a step in the right direction, and might help to mitigate some issues we have today. As for asians,[#129](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19028689&postcount=129) > [@](#): > > And yeah, I do think there’s a bias against Asians too so there’s another bit of discrimination there as well. But even though Asians do well economically, they are over represented in certain industries, like medicine. It may be that there simply isn’t as big of a desire for Asians to get into Hollywood as there is for blacks and whites, I don’t know, but again, small sampling coupled with skewed career paths makes it a little more understandable. You’re trying to create the false narrative that I think there’s a direct correlation between Oscar success and economic achievement. That’s misleading at best and a lie at worst. I already gave you the Doll Test. When a group of people has no representatives, or only negative representatives in media, it is detrimental to them in ways you can’t even imagine. However, there will still be successes despite that. Asians dominate some industries. Someone brought up African Americans and athletics. There’s a correlation but there’s also a many other factors. One thing I can say for sure is that its not a good thing, its demeaning and disheartening to think that no blacks were deserving of the Oscars for a second year in a row. Given their demographics, this kind of thing isn’t normal, it doesn’t just happen by accident. In statistics, if you have something so out of the ordinary, you cannot simply assume its part of a natural variation, it has a cause. > [@puddleglum](#): > > I am getting the fact that young black men are more aggressive, by looking at the crime statistics which show that they are 3% of the population and commit about 30% of all violent crime in this country. And courts are predisposed to punish them for the same offense as a white person much more harshly. Cops pull them over more, they are poorer as a whole and the poor tend to commit more violent crimes than richer people. Try again, none of that has to do with their race. > [@puddleglum](#): > > Your knowledge of kung fu movies is incomplete. For every peaceful kung fu master only trying to avenge the death of his master, there is an evil kung fu master who has an army of ninjas, all of which are asian. They never take off their masks, you don’t know what race or sex they are. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-white-oscars-does-it-matter/743169/187 "2016-01-21T16:25:23Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > You’re trying to create the false narrative that I think there’s a direct correlation between Oscar success and economic achievement. That’s misleading at best and a lie at worst. I already gave you the Doll Test. When a group of people has no representatives, or only negative representatives in media, it is detrimental to them in ways you can’t even imagine. What are these ways? If there are specific harms being done then we should be able to measure things getting better or worse. Like how great things were in 2006 after five black actors received nominations and two won. Or how awful things were in 1986 after Benson was cancelled. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-white-oscars-does-it-matter/743169/188 "2016-01-21T17:21:24Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > What are these ways? If there are specific harms being done then we should be able to measure things getting better or worse. Like how great things were in 2006 after five black actors received nominations and two won. Or how awful things were in 1986 after Benson was cancelled. I can’t answer that. Life is too complex to be able to give you the direct answer that you seek. But ask yourself this: does the success of some minorities mean that his success resolves all issues among those minorities? When Obama was elected, lots of racists from the GOP claimed that proved racism was over. Laughably, that was a premature declaration, but they said it because they have an easy argument to make for the stupid GOP base: How can there be racism when the president is black? They’ve achieved everything, no need to help the millions of other black people who are impoverished because Obama is president. In the Doll Test, black children saw themselves as ugly and whites as beautiful. They liked white dolls over black dolls because they see themselves reflected in the media negatively. Now the Oscars are basically saying that for two straight years, no movie a black person has done is as good as a white person’s. There’s no doubt this will lead to a number of blacks not trying to succeed in Hollywood, which will in turn lead to even less of works featuring blacks. But of course, we’ll have a few that will be inspired to take action and get into Hollywood to spite them. To you, that qualifies as a win I suppose ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-white-oscars-does-it-matter/743169/189 "2016-01-21T22:51:33Z")
“Two straight years” is a very small sample size, you know. So small that it could easily be (though not necessarily is) explained by random chance. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-white-oscars-does-it-matter/743169/190 "2016-01-21T23:32:01Z")
Given the amount of blacks in Hollywood, I don’t think its a small sample size at all. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-white-oscars-does-it-matter/743169/191 "2016-01-22T02:09:41Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Given the amount of blacks in Hollywood, I don’t think its a small sample size at all. There were only 40 nominations in the past two years. Over the past 15 years there were 300 nominations. Over that time span, black actors earned roughly proportional nominations and wins. (~10% of the nominations, 15% of the wins.) ---
**Author:** ![chicagowhitesox1173](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/46a35a/32.png) [@chicagowhitesox1173](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chicagowhitesox1173)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-white-oscars-does-it-matter/743169/192 "2016-01-22T02:21:54Z")
This is pretty ridiculous. To me, the only people who truly care about this are rich actors. All this kind of stuff does is make blacks and whites hate each other more. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-white-oscars-does-it-matter/743169/193 "2016-01-22T08:18:32Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Given the amount of blacks in Hollywood, I don’t think its a small sample size at all. So if 40 and 2 years is a good sample size, then 300 and 15 years is even better yes? And whatever your gut feeling is about the stats, 2 years on the trot is not a trend in the strict sense of the word. You think it signifies something because you’ve already made up your mind that there is something rotten in the state of Denmark. I ask you, If there were 5 black nominees next year would you think something was fishy? If not, why not? Do you accept that it is ever possible to have no black nominations through pure chance? If not why not? if so, why is this years not acceptable? ---
**Author:** ![booneyvince](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c4cdca/32.png) [@booneyvince](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/booneyvince)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-white-oscars-does-it-matter/743169/194 "2016-01-22T08:43:52Z")
> [@well\_he\_s\_back](#): > > This is an interesting article [http://http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/01/14/another-all-white-oscars-this-is-bullshit.html](http://http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/01/14/another-all-white-oscars-this-is-bullshit.html) I don’t see many movies, but I read a lot. I also know there are lots of movie fans and awards followers on this board. Anyway - Do you agree that the major nominees this year are “too white”? Do you find that question irritating? Do you find that the Oscars nominates the best efforts each year? Of course it doesn’t matter, except to racists who hate white people. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-white-oscars-does-it-matter/743169/195 "2016-01-22T09:28:43Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > No doubt they did. That’s the problem. When they fail to recognize even a single non-white person in that group–again–the question has to be, what’s wrong with these people? And why should anyone take their awards seriously? Because it is patently ludicrous to say that, in all the films released in the past two years, the forty best acting performances were _all_ white people. I don’t see that you’ve made your case How many “Oscar worthy” movies were made in the last two years? Of those - how many had non white people in the Oscar categories? I don’t have any figures in front of me, and I’m not going to do the work - but at the very least to start providing any evidence for your contention shouldn’t you know a) How many “non-whites” were there in the oscar categories b) How many total movies were there considered with c) Who do you think, specifically, was snubbed? ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-white-oscars-does-it-matter/743169/196 "2016-01-22T09:59:48Z")
If I were a black actor I’d wonder after this shit if I’d really received a nomination or an Oscar on merit alone or to fulfill some dumb quota. ---
**Author:** ![piepiepie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e47774/32.png) [@piepiepie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/piepiepie)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-white-oscars-does-it-matter/743169/197 "2016-01-22T12:55:44Z")
How is that any different from what regular black people (and most minorities, too) face in everyday life? You get a promotion–it was truly Affirmative Action. You get a decent job–diversity hire. Get into a good school–not on your merit alone. The only time (white) people think we’ve achieved anything is if we’re in sports, and even then it’s “well what about the white guy who can shoot real well?” Black actors should be recognized for their artistic work at the Oscars. The only black person up for an award (that I know about, I’m more for the [Snoop Dogg philosophy](https://youtu.be/yD2yRxOgj3Y)) is in the Best Song category, which of course was the only nomination (and win) a black person got last year. Do I think The Weeknd will win this year? No. But if he does, that’s cool too. He certainly earned it, so to speak. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-white-oscars-does-it-matter/743169/198 "2016-01-22T17:09:23Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > There were only 40 nominations in the past two years. > > Over the past 15 years there were 300 nominations. Over that time span, black actors earned roughly proportional nominations and wins. (~10% of the nominations, 15% of the wins.) Where are you getting those numbers? According to wiki, there have been [49 blacks nominated](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_black_Academy_Award_winners_and_nominees)in the last 15 years. Out of those, 17 have won. If we use that list of 17 categories, and estimate about 5 nominees per category, we get a total possible of 1275 nominations over the course of 15 years. Blacks have been 49/1275 = 3.8% of nominees, and 17/255 = 6.6% of winners. Of course the Oscars have more than those [categories](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academy_Awards#Awards_of_Merit_categories), there are currently 24, so there has actually been a possible 1800 nominations (24 cat. times 5 noms. times 15 years), so in actuality, blacks have been only 2.7% of nominees and 4.7% of winners. The difference is because there are 7 categories blacks have never even been nominated for. This is a lot less than your claim of 10% and 15%. > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > So if 40 and 2 years is a good sample size, then 300 and 15 years is even better yes? > > And whatever your gut feeling is about the stats, 2 years on the trot is not a trend in the strict sense of the word. You think it signifies something because you’ve already made up your mind that there is something rotten in the state of Denmark. > > I ask you, If there were 5 black nominees next year would you think something was fishy? If not, why not? Do you accept that it is ever possible to have no black nominations through pure chance? If not why not? if so, why is this years not acceptable? See above. There have been 48 categories in the past 2 years and 360 in the past 15. Blacks have fallen woefully short of their population because of disproportionate representation in Hollywood. And I’ve made up my mind because the facts support me. It is perfectly ok to have an unchanging mind if the facts point to one correct answer. If there were 5 black nominees next year, I would definitely think something’s fishy. Out of 24 categories and an average of 5 nominees per, that gives a possible of 120 nominations. If blacks total 5 of those, it would be incredibly fishy and a continuation of racism. Given the amount of possible nominations, it would be incredibly unlikely to have, by chance, no black nominations. Of course, mathematically its possible, random lucks means you can get 100 heads in a row when you flip a coin that many times, but in the real world, its unlikely, statistically impossible even. That means your scenario next year would be also unacceptable, as is this year, and the year before it. Given the percentage of blacks in America, I would expect random chance to produce around 20 black nominees out of 120, give or take a few. 0 is out of the question, so is 5. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-white-oscars-does-it-matter/743169/199 "2016-01-22T17:32:58Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Where are you getting those numbers? According to wiki, there have been [49 blacks nominated](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_black_Academy_Award_winners_and_nominees)in the last 15 years. Out of those, 17 have won. If we use that list of 17 categories, and estimate about 5 nominees per category, we get a total possible of 1275 nominations over the course of 15 years. Blacks have been 49/1275 = 3.8% of nominees, and 17/255 = 6.6% of winners. Of course the Oscars have more than those [categories](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academy_Awards#Awards_of_Merit_categories), there are currently 24, so there has actually been a possible 1800 nominations (24 cat. times 5 noms. times 15 years), so in actuality, blacks have been only 2.7% of nominees and 4.7% of winners. The difference is because there are 7 categories blacks have never even been nominated for. This is a lot less than your claim of 10% and 15%. Because this thread has been about the acting nominations, of which there are 20 per year and 300 in the past 15 years, because the acting nominations are the ones that get the press and people know about. If you are now including the races of every _other_ Oscar category, well then I guess neither this year nor last year were “all-white” after all, as Common & John Legand won for Best Song last year, and The Weeknd is up for Best Song this year. (As well as Innaritu winning Best Director last year and also being nominated this year.) ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-white-oscars-does-it-matter/743169/200 "2016-01-22T17:58:32Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > If there were 5 black nominees next year, I would definitely think something’s fishy. Out of 24 categories and an average of 5 nominees per, that gives a possible of 120 nominations. We were discussing the acting oscars, if you want to bring in the other categories then that is another discussion and another baseline of representative proportions will have to be set. So you’ve dodged, so I’ll rephrase. If next year there was a disproportionate over-representation of black actors, would you complain? if not, why not? Would you accept variation in one direction but not the other? For one ethnic group but not others? What %age range of representation would satisfy you? Some ballpark figures at least please. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-white-oscars-does-it-matter/743169.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-white-oscars-does-it-matter/743169.md?page=11)