# another "white" Oscars - does it matter\>? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 14, 2016, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-white-oscars-does-it-matter/743169 "2016-01-14T21:48:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-white-oscars-does-it-matter/743169/201 "2016-01-22T18:15:18Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > We were discussing the acting oscars, if you want to bring in the other categories then that is another discussion and another baseline of representative proportions will have to be set. > > So you’ve dodged, so I’ll rephrase. If next year there was a disproportionate over-representation of black actors, would you complain? if not, why not? Would you accept variation in one direction but not the other? For one ethnic group but not others? > > What %age range of representation would satisfy you? Some ballpark figures at least please. I thought we were discussing all Oscars, my mistake. To answer your question, if there were over-representation of blacks next year, I’d accept that as a make-up for the last two years. The acceptable range would be approximately 15% or so of the total nominees, give or take a slight variation. Zero blacks is too much and unacceptable. Other races with a statistical margin of error in American can be excluded entirely for years because there are so few, so I wouldn’t raise that much of an issue with that. How about you? If there were an over-representation of blacks for a couple of years, would you ever try to diminish their accomplishments by claiming they were affirmative action nominees or something? ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-white-oscars-does-it-matter/743169/202 "2016-01-22T18:19:11Z")
> [@piepiepie](#): > > (that I know about, I’m more for the [Snoop Dogg philosophy](https://youtu.be/yD2yRxOgj3Y)) The “Fuck the Oscars” part or the “suck dick or die trying” part? Cuz I’m all for the former and not so much the latter unless it has a different meaning that I don’t know of. Award shows are just a bunch of mostly rich people taking turns sucking each others dicks from year to year who don’t give a shit about the common person anyways. The only award show that even comes close to mattering is the Peoples Choice award and I don’t even pay attention to that. Hell, even that might be rigged. ---
**Author:** ![piepiepie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e47774/32.png) [@piepiepie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/piepiepie)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-white-oscars-does-it-matter/743169/203 "2016-01-22T18:34:26Z")
There are worse ways to die… Snoop’s video was like a minute too long. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-white-oscars-does-it-matter/743169/204 "2016-01-22T19:10:01Z")
> [@booneyvince](#): > > Of course it doesn’t matter, except to racists who hate white people. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-white-oscars-does-it-matter/743169/205 "2016-01-22T19:25:58Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > To answer your question, if there were over-representation of blacks next year, I’d accept that as a make-up for the last two years. The acceptable range would be approximately 15% or so of the total nominees, give or take a slight variation. So it is fine for some categories, in some years to have none? trouble is, that “slight variation” you consider allowable can’t take the form of 0.1 or 0.2 of a person. When you are at low levels anyway (perhaps 2 or 3 in the main categories) then it doesn’t take much to get to zero. > [@](#): > > How about you? If there were an over-representation of blacks for a couple of years, would you ever try to diminish their accomplishments by claiming they were affirmative action nominees or something? prior to this recent spat…no. I’d assume that anyone who makes the nomination deserves it. After this year? I confess I’ll suspect an over-representation of black actors will be partly due to positive discrimination, as will many others. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-white-oscars-does-it-matter/743169/206 "2016-01-22T21:04:42Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > So it is fine for some categories, in some years to have none? trouble is, that “slight variation” you consider allowable can’t take the form of 0.1 or 0.2 of a person. When you are at low levels anyway (perhaps 2 or 3 in the main categories) then it doesn’t take much to get to zero. I don’t think we’re at that point yet where we can honestly take a dip like this as random chance. Movie producers still don’t like casting [blacks](http://www.theroot.com/blogs/the_grapevine/2014/12/sony_execs_were_warned_not_to_cast_denzel_washington_because_black_leads.html) and [women](http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-dollar-and-cents-case-against-hollywoods-exclusion-of-women/)as leads because they think it doesn’t sell. > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > prior to this recent spat…no. I’d assume that anyone who makes the nomination deserves it. After this year? I confess I’ll suspect an over-representation of black actors will be partly due to positive discrimination, as will many others. Let’s say that happens and there are much more black and minorities nominated next year. Would you be ok with that? ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-white-oscars-does-it-matter/743169/207 "2016-01-22T21:13:33Z")
Pretty topical: [Academy overhauls membership and voting rules to promote diversity](http://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/oscars/academy-overhauls-membership-voting-rules-to-promote-oscar-diversity/ar-BBozVfX?li=BBnb7Kz) ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-white-oscars-does-it-matter/743169/208 "2016-01-23T01:07:19Z")
You know this thing is getting bigger and bigger if I’ve heard about it (which I just did a few minutes ago, for the first time), because I don’t follow current news or, really, any kind of news at all. I only hear about news if the stories get big enough so that everyone around me is talking about it and I start seeing it everywhere (mostly on Facebook, via friends’s statuses, which is my primary source of news events). I think the whole thing is stupid and overblown. It’s getting easier these days to cry racism at something that really isn’t, and some people sometimes seem to resort to crying it faster and faster as of late. Soon it’s going to be “that guy wore white slacks out in public when he could have worn black ones, he’s racist”. Stupid, ridiculous thing to say? Obvious over-the-top hyperbole? That’s exactly what I’m starting to see this whole thing as. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-white-oscars-does-it-matter/743169/209 "2016-01-23T02:35:11Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > I can see what you are saying here, but why exactly must Steve Jobs be played by a White actor? I get that, reflexively, people want an actor to resemble the character when that character is a well-known, contemporary person, but isn’t that feeling a bit ridiculous given these movies are employing _actors_ whose portrayals are almost never confused for those of the real person? > [@brickbacon](#): > > He was also American unlike Fassbender. Why is his nationality, age, or any other characteristic less important than his race? It isn’t for any logical or justifiable reason. So you’re being serious here? Because your questions have a very easy, simple answer: They are played by white actors because they were white people. If I go to see a movie about Steve Jobs, I’m going to expect it to be somewhat factual. Yes, there are many movies which take liberties and many movies which are, by and large, fictional. In fact, movies as a whole, pretty much, are fictional. But that being said, a movie about a specific person in history, who actually existed, is probably going to be made to be as factual as possible. Steve Jobs was white, so being surprised or outraged that he’s played by a white person seems extremely silly. If you’re watching a movie about George Washington and he’s being played by a guy who only has one leg, people are going to notice. People, who probably aren’t biased against amputees in the least, are going to go “Uh, that guy only has one leg, George Washington had two”. I don’t think it would be racist at all to expect someone watching a Steve Jobs movie and, if he was black, say “Whoa, he’s black. But Steve Jobs was white…”. …because I wouldn’t take it as complaining, see. I’d take it as a “If this was changed what else could they have possibly changed about his life?” statement. Why else see a movie about Steve Jobs, then, if they’re just going to change things about it? Make him black? Okay, and why not give him a dog too, even if he didn’t own any dogs. It’s cool, if anyone questions it, we can just say they’re dog-haters. Oh, and let’s say he was adopted…because there’s nothing wrong with being adopted. If people get mad about it, we can just ask them “What’s wrong, you have a problem with people who were adopted?” Hell, let’s just have Steve Jobs fight against an alien invasion, because it makes a better story and is pushing the envelope. It just doesn’t make any sense why you’d be upset that someone is played by a color person that they were. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-white-oscars-does-it-matter/743169/210 "2016-01-23T03:28:42Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > So you’re being serious here? Because your questions have a very easy, simple answer: They are played by white actors because they were white people. > > If I go to see a movie about Steve Jobs, I’m going to expect it to be somewhat factual. Yes, there are many movies which take liberties and many movies which are, by and large, fictional. In fact, movies as a whole, pretty much, are fictional. > But that being said, a movie about a specific person in history, who actually existed, is probably going to be made to be as factual as possible. Steve Jobs was white, so being surprised or outraged that he’s played by a white person seems extremely silly. If you’re watching a movie about George Washington and he’s being played by a guy who only has one leg, people are going to notice. People, who probably aren’t biased against amputees in the least, are going to go “Uh, that guy only has one leg, George Washington had two”. I don’t think it would be racist at all to expect someone watching a Steve Jobs movie and, if he was black, say “Whoa, he’s black. But Steve Jobs was white…”. …because I wouldn’t take it as complaining, see. I’d take it as a “If this was changed what else could they have possibly changed about his life?” statement. Why else see a movie about Steve Jobs, then, if they’re just going to change things about it? Make him black? Okay, and why not give him a dog too, even if he didn’t own any dogs. It’s cool, if anyone questions it, we can just say they’re dog-haters. Oh, and let’s say he was adopted…because there’s nothing wrong with being adopted. If people get mad about it, we can just ask them “What’s wrong, you have a problem with people who were adopted?” > Hell, let’s just have Steve Jobs fight against an alien invasion, because it makes a better story and is pushing the envelope. > > It just doesn’t make any sense why you’d be upset that someone is played by a color person that they were. As I said earlier, white people play non-whites all the time. [Even when they are playing historical figures.](https://medium.com/@DavidDWrites/ridley-scotts-explanation-for-whitewashing-his-exodus-movie-is-infuriating-8d36bd555ada#.g2ta2iazu) Why would it be so outrageous for non-whites to play whites? Isn’t turnabout fair play? The popularity of “Hamilton” shows that people aren’t that hung up on race when the story is good. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-white-oscars-does-it-matter/743169/211 "2016-01-23T03:48:16Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > As I said earlier, white people play non-whites all the time. [Even when they are playing historical figures.](https://medium.com/@DavidDWrites/ridley-scotts-explanation-for-whitewashing-his-exodus-movie-is-infuriating-8d36bd555ada#.g2ta2iazu) Why would it be so outrageous for non-whites to play whites? Isn’t turnabout fair play? I don’t have a problem with blacks playing whites or whites playing blacks…in both cases, however, I might have more of a problem with “this isn’t how history was, the story is inaccurate”. The fact that it’s about race is irrelevant, is my point. At least to me. I’d be just as :dubious: if it was a movie about a one legged Washington. ETA: My main point, however, is wondering why on earth someone would seem to be upset that someone white is playing someone else in history who was also white. Seems like a very, very small thing to be upset about and an extremely ridiculous thing to say is related to racism in any way. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-white-oscars-does-it-matter/743169/212 "2016-01-23T04:28:24Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > So you’re being serious here? Because your questions have a very easy, simple answer: They are played by white actors because they were white people. But, as noted, this seems to only go in one direction. > [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > If I go to see a movie about Steve Jobs, I’m going to expect it to be somewhat factual. How does the race or other attributes of the _actor_ make the move less factual? He’s an actor. You know it’s not the same person. There is no subterfuge here anymore than if the actor is older, taller, etc. > [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > Yes, there are many movies which take liberties and many movies which are, by and large, fictional. In fact, movies as a whole, pretty much, are fictional. Exactly. So why is it that you can abide by certain fictions and not others? It’s not as if race is intrinsically more important that any other physical attribute. > [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > But that being said, a movie about a specific person in history, who actually existed, is probably going to be made to be as factual as possible. Did you actually read my post. I actually acknowledged that in my FIRST comment. > [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > Steve Jobs was white, so being surprised or outraged that he’s played by a white person seems extremely silly. Where is the outrage? And Jobs was half Syrian, which is not quite White by most estimations. > [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > If you’re watching a movie about George Washington and he’s being played by a guy who only has one leg, people are going to notice. People, who probably aren’t biased against amputees in the least, are going to go “Uh, that guy only has one leg, George Washington had two”. I sincerely doubt that would happen. > [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > I don’t think it would be racist at all to expect someone watching a Steve Jobs movie and, if he was black, say “Whoa, he’s black. But Steve Jobs was white…”. …because I wouldn’t take it as complaining, see. I’d take it as a “If this was changed what else could they have possibly changed about his life?” statement. First, I never said it would be racist. Second, that would be a completely illogical conclusion. As noted, does anyone watching Hamilton assume characters of different races assume the play is dishonest? > [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > Why else see a movie about Steve Jobs, then, if they’re just going to change things about it? Make him black? Okay, and why not give him a dog too, even if he didn’t own any dogs. It’s cool, if anyone questions it, we can just say they’re dog-haters. Who here is calling anyone a hater? Your analogy is childish and inaccurate. > [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > Oh, and let’s say he was adopted…because there’s nothing wrong with being adopted. If people get mad about it, we can just ask them “What’s wrong, you have a problem with people who were adopted?” Do you really see no difference between making up things a person did, and hiring an actor who doesn’t look exactly like the person? By your logic, Fassbender’s makeup that made him look more like Jobs is a lie that should make me question what else is being hidden. > [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > I don’t have a problem with blacks playing whites or whites playing blacks…in both cases, however, I might have more of a problem with “this isn’t how history was, the story is inaccurate”. Where is the inaccuracy and why is it more important than the myraid other ways Fassbender is not like Steve Jobs? Fassbender is 38 whereas Jobs was 56 when he died. Fassbender is foreign-born German-Irish actor whereas Jobs was a American-born adopted half-Syrian business magnate. I can go on, but I think you get the point. Why can you suspend your disbelief with Fassbender, but not say, Will Smith? > [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > The fact that it’s about race is irrelevant, is my point. Obviously that is not true or else you’d never watch any movie based on real people. > [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > ETA: My main point, however, is wondering why on earth someone would seem to be upset that someone white is playing someone else in history who was also white. There is your misunderstanding. No one here seems to be upset by it. It doesn’t keep me up at night. However, it is important to acknowledge the double standard, and to acknowledge that it has real consequences for actors of color. > [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > Seems like a very, very small thing to be upset about and an extremely ridiculous thing to say is related to racism in any way. Of course it’s related to racism or at the very least racial bias. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-white-oscars-does-it-matter/743169/213 "2016-01-23T08:34:51Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > I don’t think we’re at that point yet where we can honestly take a dip like this as random chance. Movie producers still don’t like casting [blacks](http://www.theroot.com/blogs/the_grapevine/2014/12/sony_execs_were_warned_not_to_cast_denzel_washington_because_black_leads.html) and [women](http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-dollar-and-cents-case-against-hollywoods-exclusion-of-women/)as leads because they think it doesn’t sell. Well hang on here. If you are saying that black actors are avoided by the studios and so don’t get the good parts then surely that reduces the pool of oscar worthy performances for them even further? If that is true then that makes the likelihood of zero black nominations even higher. > [@](#): > > Let’s say that happens and there are much more black and minorities nominated next year. Would you be ok with that? Not only would I be OK with that, I suggest that there is pretty much a certainty that such “clustering” is likely to happen. That explains why I’d be comfortable with both an over-representation and under-representation. As I said in a previous post though, now that this has blown up I will be suspicious of a perfectly representative nominee list in future years. I suspect it will have been manufactured. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-white-oscars-does-it-matter/743169/214 "2016-01-23T10:01:32Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > How does the race or other attributes of the _actor_ make the move less factual? Steve jobs wasn’t a black person, that’s a fact. If a movie displays him as being a black person, that is not factual. If a movie displays him as being a woman, that is not factual. If a movie displays him as being armless, that is not factual. If a movie displays him as being legally blind, that is not factual. If a movie displays him as anything other than what he was, you know, in _real_ life…then it’s not factual. You seem to be hung up on the race thing and making it racial, which is silly and my whole point. > [@](#): > > Exactly. So why is it that you can abide by certain fictions and not others? Exactly. So if it’s supposed to be so fictional, why not give him a dog, make him legless, and have him fight aliens too? > [@](#): > > Where is the outrage? What post did I originally reply to? Not sure I’d say you were full of outrage in it, but you seem to have some problem with it, otherwise why make the post you did and why continue on it like you have here? > [@](#): > > Where is the inaccuracy If he was portrayed by a black person? Well, easy…Steve Jobs was white. > [@](#): > > There is your misunderstanding. No one here seems to be upset by it. I’m the one saying “What’s the big deal? Steve Jobs was white so…so what if he is portrayed by a white guy?” and you’re the one who seems to be asking “Why can’t it be a black guy, huh?!” I’m the one who doesn’t see what the fuss is about (the fuss you seem to be making over it)…but if you don’t call that being upset or having outrage, okay. I’ll take your word for it. > [@](#): > > Of course it’s related to racism or at the very least racial bias. No, it’s not. It’s utterly ridiculous to say so. Steve Jobs was white so it makes sense to have a white guy playing him. This seems to me to be common sense as much as it would be to have Martha Stewart played by a woman, since she’s, you know, a woman and Ali to be played by a black man since he’s a black man and all and a munchkin to be played by a midget since they’re small and miniature and Lassie to be played by a dog since it’s a dog and not by a man in a dog costume. It’s not about race at all, it’s about people portraying others as they really were, in real life…is that really a hard concept? ---
**Author:** ![Go\_Arachnid\_Laser\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b2d939/32.png) [@Go\_Arachnid\_Laser\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Go_Arachnid_Laser_1)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-white-oscars-does-it-matter/743169/215 "2016-01-23T10:32:04Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Well hang on here. If you are saying that black actors are avoided by the studios and so don’t get the good parts then surely that reduces the pool of oscar worthy performances for them even further? If that is true then that makes the likelihood of zero black nominations even higher. > > Not only would I be OK with that, I suggest that there is pretty much a certainty that such “clustering” is likely to happen. That explains why I’d be comfortable with both an over-representation and under-representation. As I said in a previous post though, now that this has blown up I will be suspicious of a perfectly representative nominee list in future years. I suspect it will have been manufactured. Yes. The oscars are mostly a popularity contest led by the studios. Every single candidate, of any race and gender, has literally been manufactured. The issue this year is that there have been some non-white performances that could have been artificially tackled into that list, but haven’t. Other, white, performances have been artificially tackled instead. And since it IS a popularity contest, it becomes a sort of “squeaky wheel gets the grease” issue. Which is a perfectly legitimate strategy and I don’t see how anybody would have a problem with that. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-white-oscars-does-it-matter/743169/216 "2016-01-23T12:11:35Z")
Special meeting of Academy board approves “radical changes” to electorate for future Awards ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-white-oscars-does-it-matter/743169/217 "2016-01-23T12:16:28Z")
Fixed link: [Special meeting of Academy board approves “radical changes” to electorate for future Awards](http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/23/business/media/oscars-diversity-academy-voting-rules.html) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-white-oscars-does-it-matter/743169/218 "2016-01-23T12:22:23Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > Special meeting of Academy board approves “radical changes” to electorate for future Awards If no changes had ensued, and this happened again next year, there’d be outrage. But if they make a ton of changes, and this happens again _anyway…_ ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-white-oscars-does-it-matter/743169/219 "2016-01-23T15:45:28Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > Steve jobs wasn’t a black person, that’s a fact. But a studio that hires a Black guy to play Steve Jobs isn’t arguing or saying he was Black. They are just hiring a Black actor to do a job. Just like hiring Fassbender, a German, wasn’t arguing Jobs is a German. > [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > If a movie displays him as being a black person, that is not factual. The same applies to every other characteristic. Why is race so special in your eyes? > [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > If a movie displays him as anything other than what he was, you know, in _real_ life…then it’s not factual. You seem to be hung up on the race thing and making it racial, which is silly and my whole point. I am “hung up on race” because it seems like the only “fact” you won’t abide by or ignore for the sake of a movie. You can seemingly ignore where an actor was born, their height, weight, ethnicity, race when it means Whites playing non-Whites, etc. > [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > Exactly. So if it’s supposed to be so fictional, why not give him a dog, make him legless, and have him fight aliens too? Because the innate characteristics of the actor are not making an argument or changing history. > [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > Not sure I’d say you were full of outrage in it, but you seem to have some problem with it, otherwise why make the post you did and why continue on it like you have here? No, my annoyance is with the double standard and the lack of acknowledgement that this is largely based on racial bias and not some desire to be “accurate”. > [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > If he was portrayed by a black person? Well, easy…Steve Jobs was white. Was Jobs German? Since he wasn’t, why is this less of a problem? > [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > No, it’s not. It’s utterly ridiculous to say so. Steve Jobs was white so it makes sense to have a white guy playing him. Why? Should a tech mogul play him in the movie since that’s what he was? Does the actor need to be adopted too? Why are your demands so singularly about race and not 100 other characteristics that are not like Jobs? > [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > It’s not about race at all, it’s about people portraying others as they really were, in real life…is that really a hard concept? No. The hard concept is why you think casting a movie with a bunch of actors playing make believe is hindered when an actor is of a different race, but not the myriad other ways the actor and subject are dissimilar. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-white-oscars-does-it-matter/743169/220 "2016-01-23T16:05:29Z")
**brickbacon** , I think that was an excellent post and I hope **Idle Thoughts** (whom I love dearly!) thinks long and hard about it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-white-oscars-does-it-matter/743169.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-white-oscars-does-it-matter/743169.md?page=12)