# Another Worthless Celebrity Anti-Vaxer **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 14, 2014, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-worthless-celebrity-anti-vaxer/683734 "2014-03-14T23:57:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-worthless-celebrity-anti-vaxer/683734/161 "2014-03-27T23:14:22Z")
> [@akrako1](#): > > Well clearly there is _something_ people are more exposed to these days that is causing a rise in autism, it’s not all due to overdiagnosis or expanding the definition of the “spectrum”. A lot of the Holistic crowd thinks it’s a combination or build up of aggravating factors, and not just vaccines - which has a ring of truth to me. But one has to at least admit that the Immunologic adjuvants in vaccines are by definition toxic. But vaccines just can’t be the only factor, as there would be clear correlations with autism. I’m betting on a more broadly used environmental contaminant, perhaps a pesticide or other hastily approved product, or combination of chemicals that’s the larger part of the problem, while the vaccination might just be the tipping point. I do believe the parents who swear there was a drastic, irreversible change after a vaccination, I just think they’re misguided if they consider it the only cause. This paragraph is largely gibberish. Please back up your assertions with scientific sources. And by that I do not mean nonsense from silly websites praising Wakefield or coconut oil. Vaccines do not contain toxins in the amounts given. ---
**Author:** ![akrako1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c77e96/32.png) [@akrako1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/akrako1)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-worthless-celebrity-anti-vaxer/683734/162 "2014-03-27T23:27:33Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > This paragraph is largely gibberish. Please back up your assertions with scientific sources. Seems to read ok to me… When someone says “my theory” or “I’m betting on…” that doesn’t mean I’m offering it as fact. What I do state as fact I’d be happy to debate… how about this “fact” (with no source): > [@LavenderBlue](#): > > Vaccines do not contain toxins in the amounts given. Umm, wrong. Check this CDC site that took like .5 seconds to google: [http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/additives.htm](http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/additives.htm) > [@](#): > > Common substances found in vaccines include: > Aluminum gels or salts of aluminum which are added as adjuvants to help the vaccine stimulate a better response. Adjuvants help promote an earlier, more potent response, and more persistent immune response to the vaccine. > > Antibiotics which are added to some vaccines to prevent the growth of germs (bacteria) during production and storage of the vaccine. No vaccine produced in the United States contains penicillin. > > Egg protein is found in influenza and yellow fever vaccines, which are prepared using chicken eggs. Ordinarily, persons who are able to eat eggs or egg products safely can receive these vaccines. > > Formaldehyde is used to inactivate bacterial products for toxoid vaccines, (these are vaccines that use an inactive bacterial toxin to produce immunity.) It is also used to kill unwanted viruses and bacteria that might contaminate the vaccine during production. Most formaldehyde is removed from the vaccine before it is packaged. > > Monosodium glutamate (MSG) and 2-phenoxy-ethanol which are used as stabilizers in a few vaccines to help the vaccine remain unchanged when the vaccine is exposed to heat, light, acidity, or humidity. > > Thimerosal is a mercury-containing preservative that is added to vials of vaccine that contain more than one dose to prevent contamination and growth of potentially harmful bacteria. So you honestly contend that Aluminum, Formaldehyde or mercury-containing Thimerosal are NOT toxic? And you accuse me of making brash statements that aren’t backed up :smack: Also notice they state that Thimerosal is only in MULTI-DOSE vials of Vaccines. Like the FLU vaccine - but unfortunately one that the CDC recommends nearly EVERYONE gets EVERY year. You get more mercury introduced into your system every year, just so CVS can make more money and buy multi-dose bottles. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-worthless-celebrity-anti-vaxer/683734/163 "2014-03-27T23:34:52Z")
Given how much of what you eat and drink is packaged or even cooked in Aluminum, and the fact that it is the third most abundant element in the Earth’s crust (after Oxygen and Silicon), you’re going to try pull that shit??? ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-worthless-celebrity-anti-vaxer/683734/164 "2014-03-27T23:40:41Z")
> [@akrako1](#): > > Seems to read ok to me… When someone says “my theory” or “I’m betting on…” that doesn’t mean I’m offering it as fact. What I do state as fact I’d be happy to debate… > > how about this “fact” (with no source): > Umm, wrong. Check this CDC site that took like .5 seconds to google: > [http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/additives.htm](http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/additives.htm) > > So you honestly contend that Aluminum, Formaldehyde or mercury-containing Thimerosal are NOT toxic? And you accuse me of making brash statements that aren’t backed up :smack: > > Also notice they state that Thimerosal is only in MULTI-DOSE vials of Vaccines. Like the FLU vaccine - but unfortunately one that the CDC recommends nearly EVERYONE gets EVERY year. You get more mercury introduced into your system every year, just so CVS can make more money and buy multi-dose bottles. Oh bullshit to all of this. Did you note the part where I wrote in the amounts given? Your own body makes formaldehyde. It’s a by-product of your metabolism. Water’s toxic if you drink enough of it. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Duality](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.duality/32/4098_2.png) [@Mr.Duality](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Duality)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-worthless-celebrity-anti-vaxer/683734/165 "2014-03-27T23:43:49Z")
> [@akrako1](#): > > Have you not been paying attention? > > Of the TONs of articles on the subject, here’s just one recent one: > [Autism Rate Has Increased -- 1 In 68 Kids Now Identified With The Disorder | HuffPost Life](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/27/autism-rate-1-in-68_n_5041858.html) Have you not read the entire article to which you linked? " It’s still not precisely known what is causing the steady rise in autism diagnosis. “There has certainly been an increase in awareness, and that drives families toward earlier action … It drives them to ask questions at earlier ages, and it also increases the probability of detection,” Rob Ring, chief science officer with the nonprofit Autism Speaks, told The Huffington Post. “We also know that surveillance itself is improving. Groups like the American Academy of Pediatrics have instituted guidelines for screening, which increase the chances of picking up kids who have been missed previously.” Ring added that the diagnostic criteria for autism has changed over the years, most recently with the release of DSM-5 – the so-called “bible” of modern psychiatry. Among other things, the new edition of the DSM has folded Asperger’s syndrome into the broader category of ASD. " It’s an increase in _diagnosis of autism_, not autism itself. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-worthless-celebrity-anti-vaxer/683734/166 "2014-03-27T23:56:43Z")
[Toxicological Profile of Aluminum](http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/tp22-c2.pdf) > [@](#): > > In general, background levels of aluminum in the atmosphere are low, typically ranging from about 0.005 to 0.18 μg/m3. Much higher levels are routinely observed in urban and industrial locations. Aluminum levels in surface water is usually very low (\<0.1 mg/L); however, in acidic waters or water high in humic or fulvic acid content, the concentration of soluble aluminum increases due to the increased solubility of aluminum oxide and aluminum salts. > [@](#): > > Based on the FDA’s 1993 Total Diet Study dietary exposure model and the 1987–1988 U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) Nationwide Food Consumption Survey, the authors estimated daily aluminum intakes of 0.10 mg Al/kg/day for 6–11-month-old infants; 0.30–0.35 mg Al/kg/day for 2–6-year-old children; 0.11 mg Al/kg/day for 10-year old children; 0.15–0.18 mg Al/kg/day for 14–16-year-old males and females; and 0.10–0.12 mg Al/kg/day for adult (25–30- and 70±year-old) males and females. Users of aluminum containing medications who are healthy (i.e., have normal renal function) can ingest much larger amounts of aluminum than in the diet, possibly as high as 12–71 mg Al/kg/day from antacid/anti-ulcer products > and 2–10 mg Al/kg/day from buffered analgesics when taken at recommended dosages. So for a 100kg adult (220 pounds), they’re estimating we take in 10-12mg per day of Aluminum. For a 5kg (11 pound) infant, that be @ 0.5mg [Aluminum in Vaccines.](http://www.chop.edu/service/vaccine-education-center/vaccine-safety/vaccine-ingredients/aluminum.html) The highest vaccine on that chart is 0.625mg, and most are 0.225 or less. In other words, less than the average small child ingests through other means on any given day. Hell, a buffered aspirin contains 10-12mg! If you go further down the tox report, the deleterious effects of aluminum ingestion didn’t begin until, oh FIVE HUNDRED TIMES the average daily ingestion rates. A 10kg (22 pound) child would need roughly 2,000 vaccines in a single day before this became an issue. In Summary, claiming there is any kind of an issue with the Aluminum in vaccines is so fucking hilariously ignorant that if defies human comprehension. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-worthless-celebrity-anti-vaxer/683734/167 "2014-03-28T00:05:44Z")
Be it autism, or the causes of an airplane going down, or whatever, the human mind is so utterly terrified of the words: “we don’t know why”. Because we desperately crave to be told there’s a way to keep it from happening to us or to fix it if it does. But using that to then deliberately NOT prevent known harmful disease, is so contradictory. ---
**Author:** ![akrako1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c77e96/32.png) [@akrako1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/akrako1)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-worthless-celebrity-anti-vaxer/683734/168 "2014-03-28T00:22:50Z")
> [@Mr.Duality](#): > > It’s an increase in _diagnosis of autism_, not autism itself. Quite a convenient conclusion. Lets do nothing then… Sorry, I knew by the thread name this “discussion” would be even more closed minded than the usual close-mindedness on the SD about anything that can’t be proven by the all-mighty double-blind. later all. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-worthless-celebrity-anti-vaxer/683734/169 "2014-03-28T00:25:42Z")
> [@akrako1](#): > > Quite a convenient conclusion. Lets do nothing then… > > Sorry, I knew by the Thread Name this “discussion” would be even more fascist then normal, not sure why i bothered… later all. It’s not fascist, moron, it’s FACT-ist. You’re spouting ignorant crap with no basis in fact and you can’t back it up. Go ahead, run away like the ignorant cowardly bitch you are, and keep playing your magic autism (child killing) crap somewhere else. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-worthless-celebrity-anti-vaxer/683734/170 "2014-03-28T00:52:19Z")
> [@akrako1](#): > > Quite a convenient conclusion. Lets do nothing then… > > Sorry, I knew by the thread name this “discussion” would be even more closed minded than the usual close-mindedness on the SD about anything that can’t be proven by the all-mighty double-blind. later all. So what should we do? Get rid of vaccines and bring back vaccine-preventable diseases just because some people like yourself find basic science confusing? This is not a fucking joke. Many vaccine-preventable diseases are both highly contagious and carry a huge risk of side effects. Measles is one of the most contagious diseases on the planet. Little babies cannot be vaccinated against it. Why the hell should someone else be at serious risk because you’re unable to understand a basic concept such as the idea that the dose makes the poison? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-worthless-celebrity-anti-vaxer/683734/171 "2014-03-28T02:00:30Z")
> [@akrako1](#): > > Quite a convenient conclusion. Lets do nothing then. At any rate, let’s do nothing to discourage vaccination. > [@akrako1](#): > > Sorry, I knew by the thread name this “discussion” would be even more closed minded than the usual close-mindedness on the SD about anything that can’t be proven by **the all-mighty double-blind.** later all. 😕 WTF?! What exactly is your scientific objection to [double-blind trials](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_blind#Double-blind_trials)?! ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-worthless-celebrity-anti-vaxer/683734/172 "2014-03-28T04:26:04Z")
We got ourselves a real live anti-vaxxer in our midst?!? YEEE-HAWWWW! Or, as is famously said, you’re entitled to your own opinion, not your own facts. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-worthless-celebrity-anti-vaxer/683734/173 "2014-03-28T04:56:55Z")
> [@eclectic\_wench](#): > > If it’s down to the mother’s vaccines, though, then surely at least there’s very little argument left for not vaccinating the kids? I’m vaccinated to the gills, so my kids are already epigenetically fucked (if I believed that, which I don’t), so where’s the extra harm in vaccinating them? Well, how else are the kids’ kids supposed to get autism? ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-worthless-celebrity-anti-vaxer/683734/174 "2014-03-28T05:11:19Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Well, how else are the kids’ kids supposed to get autism? Maybe we could make an inoculation for it. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-worthless-celebrity-anti-vaxer/683734/175 "2014-03-28T11:52:11Z")
> [@akrako1](#): > > make sure to include Dr. Oz in your list of anti-Vaxx celebrities. While he’s not contractually free to fully express his opinions on the subject, he admits to not vaccinating his kids. Dr. Oz is an idiot. He’s gotten the JREF Pigasus award several times for spouting nonsense. > [@](#): > > there are actually quite a lot of MD’s against vaccination, though their voices are not widely heard as they are sidelined by the MSM. This article links to a list of 150+ MD’s (no google degrees here) who have spoken out: > [Doctors Against Vaccines: The Other Side of the Story is Not Being Told](http://healthimpactnews.com/2014/doctors-against-vaccines-the-other-side-of-the-story-is-not-being-told/?utm_content=buffer76372&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer) > > I guess they’re all crazy… According to this the number of doctors in the USA totals 661,400 as of 2008. You have a list of 150. Meaning 0.02% of doctors. A fraction of a percent. In any profession there is going to be a percentage of crazy, incompetent, or grossly misguided. I am more than happy to dismiss this list of doctors as crazy. Just because they have a degree does not make them immune to believing some total bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-worthless-celebrity-anti-vaxer/683734/176 "2014-03-28T12:00:22Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > According to this the number of doctors in the USA totals 661,400 as of 2008. > > You have a list of 150. Meaning 0.02% of doctors. A fraction of a percent. It’s homeopathic opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-worthless-celebrity-anti-vaxer/683734/177 "2014-03-28T13:21:22Z")
> [@akrako1](#): > > make sure to include Dr. Oz in your list of anti-Vaxx celebrities. While he’s not contractually free to fully express his opinions on the subject, he admits to not vaccinating his kids. Actually, Oz (while saying his wife and kids wouldn’t get H1N1 flu vaccine) [has spoken out in support of childhood immunizations](http://health.heraldtribune.com/2012/06/05/dr-oz-dont-fear-childhood-vaccinations/). He’s guilty of promoting various types of woo, but he’s not the buddy to antivaxers that they initially hoped he was. > [@](#): > > there are actually quite a lot of MD’s against vaccination, though their voices are not widely heard as they are sidelined by the MSM. This article links to a list of 150+ MD’s (no google degrees here) who have spoken out: > [Doctors Against Vaccines: The Other Side of the Story is Not Being Told](http://healthimpactnews.com/2014/doctors-against-vaccines-the-other-side-of-the-story-is-not-being-told/?utm_content=buffer76372&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer) > > I guess they’re all crazy… The second doctor on that list is Sherri Tenpenny, a non-practicing osteopath and notorious antivax nutter who has her own page on whale.to (that is _not_ a recommendation) and has appeared on Alex Jones’ Prison Planet show to regale listeners with conspiracy nonsense about flu vaccine. What you might ask yourself, apart from whether “150+” doctors represents a significant percentage of the medical community, is how many of those docs have any expertise in pediatrics, infectious disease and/or community health. It is a typical alt med tactic to drum up lists of “doctors” who are antivax, anti-water fluoridation, HIV denialists, antievolution or espouse other forms of pseudoscience. Flogging this pitiful fringe as representative of medicine/science as a whole is flagrantly deceptive. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-worthless-celebrity-anti-vaxer/683734/178 "2014-03-28T15:12:15Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > FYI, the source you linked to here hypes bullshit for gullible people. Their idea of a reputable source on vaccines is a nonsensical piece of [propaganda](http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/the-greater-good-pure-unadulterated-anti-vaccine-propagand/) that promotes anti-vax horseshit. And then suggests coconuts are the solution to all health problems. There are quite a few people who believe that hemp oil and medical marijuana are a cure-all too. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-worthless-celebrity-anti-vaxer/683734/179 "2014-03-28T15:48:02Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > You have a list of 150. Meaning 0.02% of doctors. A fraction of a percent. Actually if you read carefully it says Doctors and Scientists, which means that a significant percentage of those may have no medical training what so ever. It’s the same trick the climate change deniers are using. > [@akrako1](#): > > Quite a convenient conclusion. Lets do nothing then. But we are in no way doing nothing. Scientists are looking into all possible causes for the rise in autism diagnose, including vaccinations. The thing is that when the looked into it, the found NO EVIDENCE! none, nil, zippo, nadda. All there was is annecdotal reports related to the fact that in order to best protect children from life threatening diseases, we tend to vaccinate children slightly before the age at which the signs of autism become apparent. If you have any good evidence to the contrary please show it. So rather than continuing to pour money and resources into studies that show over and over again that there is no link which are then promptly ignored, they decided to actually try and figure out what the real cause is, and produce studies like [this](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/18/autism-air-pollution-study_n_3443518.htmlhttp://) and [this](http://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/autism-tied-flawed-prenatal-brain-growth-23082852). I am profoundly curious why you and your ilk cling so strongly to the idea that vaccines cause autism despite the fact that there is no evidence for it, and makes you take the word of a playboy model over that of thousands of trained scientists. Is it as the poster above suggested, fear of the unknown? Is it a sense of superiority that you get knowing that you are “in the know” and not being fooled by the establishment? Are you fearful of the power of the government and big business and so reflexively support the heterodox view as a way of supporting David against Goliath? Inquiring minds want to know. ---
**Author:** ![Kimballkid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5a626/32.png) [@Kimballkid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimballkid)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-worthless-celebrity-anti-vaxer/683734/180 "2014-03-28T16:22:26Z")
I doubt you’ll get an answer as that poster seems to have flounced out in a huff because they couldn’t convince anyone that they held the one truth and no science in the world can overcome that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-worthless-celebrity-anti-vaxer/683734.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-worthless-celebrity-anti-vaxer/683734.md?page=10)