# Another WWII Question : Fortified Islands In Boston Harbor
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-wwii-question-fortified-islands-in-boston-harbor/722760
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [June 17, 2015, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-wwii-question-fortified-islands-in-boston-harbor/722760 "2015-06-17T16:29:52Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@Kiber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kiber)
#### Post date: [June 18, 2015, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-wwii-question-fortified-islands-in-boston-harbor/722760/21 "2015-06-18T13:55:05Z")
Defensive positions weren’t just set up along the coast. The [locks](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrage_balloon)at Sault Ste. Marie were also defended during the war:
> [@wiki](#):
>
> In 1942 Canadian and American forces began joint operations to protect the sensitive locks and shipping channel at Sault Ste. Marie along their common border among the Great Lakes against possible air attack.
If we were worried about air attacks that far from the coast, then guarding major port cities right on the coast doesn’t seem that far fetched.
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### Author:  [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)
#### Post date: [June 18, 2015, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-wwii-question-fortified-islands-in-boston-harbor/722760/22 "2015-06-18T15:18:54Z")
There was at least one case (IIRC it was a Janese sub along the Pacific coast) when a submarine surfaced fairly close to shore and started shelling the coast. So it was not entirely out of bounds to imagine that could happen anywhere, anytime.
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### Author:  [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)
#### Post date: [June 18, 2015, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-wwii-question-fortified-islands-in-boston-harbor/722760/23 "2015-06-18T15:57:47Z")
OK, so the German navy decides to send battleship “Turpitz” out to shell the city of Boston. They sail 2800 miles and show up-right. In the first place, they had no oil (all of it was going to the army in Russia). Second, the ship would have been tracked by aircraft and submarines-and probably sunk in the mid-Atlantic.
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### Author:  [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)
#### Post date: [June 18, 2015, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-wwii-question-fortified-islands-in-boston-harbor/722760/24 "2015-06-18T16:10:29Z")
> [@ralph124c](#):
>
> OK, so the German navy decides to send battleship “Turpitz” out to shell the city of Boston. They sail 2800 miles and show up-right. In the first place, they had no oil (all of it was going to the army in Russia). Second, the ship would have been tracked by aircraft and submarines-and probably sunk in the mid-Atlantic.
Or, Germany defeats Great Britain (which wasn’t out of the range of possibility early in the war – in the minds of the American military, at least), and takes over the entire Royal Navy and sends it to the American coast.
This was why the Brits sank a good chunk of the French navy soon after the French defeat. They feared the French ships would be taken over and used against them.
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### Author:  [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)
#### Post date: [June 18, 2015, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-wwii-question-fortified-islands-in-boston-harbor/722760/25 "2015-06-18T16:59:33Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#):
>
> There was at least one case (IIRC it was a Janese sub along the Pacific coast) when a submarine surfaced fairly close to shore and started shelling the coast.
[You recall correctly.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardment_of_Ellwood)[Twice, btw](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardment_of_Fort_Stevens).
[And once by a German sub in Cape Cod.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_on_Orleans)
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### Author:  [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)
#### Post date: [June 18, 2015, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-wwii-question-fortified-islands-in-boston-harbor/722760/26 "2015-06-18T17:43:04Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#):
>
> [And once by a German sub in Cape Cod.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_on_Orleans)
The United States Life-Saving Service rowed to the barge to rescue people while it was under fire? They were made of stronger stuff than I.
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### Author:  [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)
#### Post date: [June 18, 2015, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-wwii-question-fortified-islands-in-boston-harbor/722760/27 "2015-06-18T17:48:58Z")
I guess you never really know what you’re capable of, or not, until the circumstances arise.
In WW2, religious conscientious objectors were often assigned to be medics, who would treat the wounded while under fire themselves. I’ve heard vets refer to a CO as being the bravest man they ever knew. [/tangent]
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### Author:  [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)
#### Post date: [June 18, 2015, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-wwii-question-fortified-islands-in-boston-harbor/722760/28 "2015-06-18T17:49:04Z")
> [@ralph124c](#):
>
> You answered it-it was all about money. I cannot imagine why anyone thought that manning the forts made sense.
People do silly things in time of war. My mother was in nursing school at Massachusetts General Hospital during the war, and one of her duties was to patrol the roof watching for bombs. She was provided a bucket of sand and a bucket of water. She was instructed that if a bomb fell on the roof, she was to first dump the water on it, then dump the sand on it. Make sense of that.
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### Author:  [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)
#### Post date: [June 18, 2015, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-wwii-question-fortified-islands-in-boston-harbor/722760/29 "2015-06-18T18:08:19Z")
Silly things, yes, but they were real. It was war. Everyone wanted to do all they could to help, in any capacity somebody could think of. Even if it was obviously silly, it was something, something they could feel good about, and something that they could show to their friends and neighbors as Doing Their Part. It was really about morale, both individual and societal, and morale is pretty damned important.
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### Author:  [@filmstar-en](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmstar-en)
#### Post date: [June 18, 2015, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-wwii-question-fortified-islands-in-boston-harbor/722760/30 "2015-06-18T18:29:46Z")
That makes sense for the most common type of bomb - incendiaries. They were small charges designed to create a hot flame that would ignite the wooden parts of a roof. I guess if some did not detonate, the best thing to do would be put them in a bucket of sand.
However, what do you do if one hits your roof, goes through and starts a fire? Time to get out the stirrup pump and bucket of water! This wartime civil defense film shows how.
This was a serious business, firestorms caused by incendiary bombs destroyed many cities in WW2.
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### Author:  [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)
#### Post date: [June 18, 2015, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-wwii-question-fortified-islands-in-boston-harbor/722760/31 "2015-06-18T19:47:36Z")
And phosphorous burns under water.
This forum requires that you wait 60 seconds between posts. Please try again in 1 seconds.
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### Author:  [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)
#### Post date: [June 18, 2015, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-wwii-question-fortified-islands-in-boston-harbor/722760/32 "2015-06-18T20:38:37Z")
> [@filmstar-en](#):
>
> That makes sense for the most common type of bomb - incendiaries.
Did incendiary bombs land on roofs? Or did they go right through to the basement before exploding?
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### Author:  [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)
#### Post date: [June 18, 2015, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-wwii-question-fortified-islands-in-boston-harbor/722760/33 "2015-06-18T20:43:31Z")
> [@Isilder](#):
>
> However their fuel was burnt, their mines laid and their torpedoes shot, their food eaten and their first aid used.
> [@carnivorousplant](#):
>
> I beg your pardon?
I think Isilder is saying the troops that were assigned to these coastal defenses were consuming resources that could have been used elsewhere.
But I don’t think that’s really the case. The army was being built up throughout 1942. Available transportation limited the amount of soldiers that could be shipped overseas in any given month. So there were going to be a lot of soldiers stationed in the United States until they could be sent somewhere to fight. These soldiers consumed resources regardless of where they were. Under the circumstances, dispersing them to coastal defenses made as much sense as keeping them all stationed in army bases.
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### Author:  [@Jim\_s\_Son](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_s_Son)
#### Post date: [June 18, 2015, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-wwii-question-fortified-islands-in-boston-harbor/722760/34 "2015-06-18T20:57:19Z")
A lot of U boats early in the war were equipped with a 8.8cm/45 SK C/35 cannon which had a range
of 13,070 yards. These were used primarily to sink unarmed solitary merchant ships but theoretically
shell land targets.
[Germany 8.8 cm/45 (3.46") SK C/35 - NavWeaps](http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNGER_88mm-45_skc35.htm)
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### Author:  [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)
#### Post date: [June 18, 2015, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-wwii-question-fortified-islands-in-boston-harbor/722760/35 "2015-06-18T21:36:41Z")
Except that it wasn’t obviously silly to build and maintain coastal fortifications. What does everyone think we faced on the Normandy beaches, guys just standing on the cliffs shooting at us? Coastal fortifications had been built and used for centuries and they were still useful during the war. If one or more German ships had come calling, better to have the forts than not to have them.
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### Author:  [@filmstar-en](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmstar-en)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2015, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-wwii-question-fortified-islands-in-boston-harbor/722760/36 "2015-06-19T01:57:52Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#):
>
> Did incendiary bombs land on roofs? Or did they go right through to the basement before exploding?
There were various sizes of incendiary bombs. But they were much smaller than regular bombs. Usually bombers would drop high explosive bombs to damage buildings, then huge numbers of incendiaries to start many fires amongst the wreckage. The idea was that they would overwhelm the capacity of the fire fighters.
> **[Aerial Bombing Comparison Diagram | Military History Matters](https://www.military-history.org/feature/aerial-bombing-comparison-diagram.htm)**
>
> Your handy guide to aerial bombing. This illustration appeared in a british wartime publication around the time of the Baedecker Blitz A combination of high ...
In cities where there were many building made entirely of wood, the effect of incendiaries alone could be a devastating Firestorm. This was the case during the bombing of Japan, where wooden construction was more usual because it is more resistant earthquakes.
> **[Firestorm](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firestorm)**
>
> A firestorm is a conflagration which attains such intensity that it creates and sustains its own wind system. It is most commonly a natural phenomenon, created during some of the largest bushfires and wildfires. Although the term has been used to describe certain large fires, the phenomenon's determining characteristic is a fire with its own storm-force winds from every point of the compass towards the storm's center, where the air is heated and then ascends.
> The Black Saturday bushfires, the...
Air Raid Precaution teams and the Fire Service were very important during WW2 in the UK. They were helped by ‘Firewatchers’ whose job it was to deal with incendiaries and tell the fire service where larger fires had broken out. Every office and place of work and public building would have teams responsible for the this.
I guess after Pearl Harbour the US hastily set up a wide range of civil defences to deal with the threat air attacks.
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### Author:  [@filmstar-en](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmstar-en)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2015, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-wwii-question-fortified-islands-in-boston-harbor/722760/37 "2015-06-19T02:26:38Z")
> [@ralph124c](#):
>
> Boston Harbor has several islands in it, and at east 5 of of them had forts built on them. During WWII, these islands were garrisoned and the forts equipped with long range howitzers-capable of sinking battleships. My question: in 1941, it was obvious that the (surface) German Navy was a joke-it had great difficulty sending its ships as far as Norway. So why did anyone think that they could send ships across the Atlantic, to attack Boston? Manning these forts took manpower away from combat operations-and (as far as I know) these guns wer never fired at the enemy.
> So why spend all that money on such an unlikely thing?
I really don’t think anyone was laughing about the threat of German battleships in 1941, they were some of the most powerful vessels afloat and all the big navies considered such ships to be their major adversary at sea. Their guns were capable of unleashing a powerful barrage onto shore targets and in harbours. The Royal Navy had destroyed the French fleet at anchor. The Bismark was sunk in the mid-Atlantic. There was a major effort all through the war to track them down and sink them, which eventually happened with the development of new bombing techniques.
The US was very unprepared for dealing with German U-boats and they caused havoc to shipping along the US Atlantic coast.
It makes painful reading:
> **[Second Happy Time](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Happy_Time)**
>
> 1939
> 1940
> 1941
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### Author:  [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2015, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-wwii-question-fortified-islands-in-boston-harbor/722760/38 "2015-06-19T02:50:06Z")
I was born in 1949 and raised in the height of the Cold War and its Proxies (VietNam being a biggie).
I can barely imagine the US response to Pearl Harbor.
See:
Blackout Curtains
Air Warden
Aircraft Spotter
Scrap Metal Drive (can you make battleships out of wrought iron fences? A bunch of stuff was lost)
For the Cold War:
McCarthyism (where Nixon came from)
Conelrad
Duck and Cover
Fallout Shelter
By now, these are probably hard for the young to imagine. Let’s hope it stays that way, but Putin seems to have other plans.
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### Author:  [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2015, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-wwii-question-fortified-islands-in-boston-harbor/722760/39 "2015-06-19T14:44:12Z")
> [@usedtobe](#):
>
> By now, these are probably hard for the young to imagine. Let’s hope it stays that way, but Putin seems to have other plans.
Old Farts have said this since Socrates, but I doubt the USA population would be as motivated and act as well as the WWII generation.
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### Author:  [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2015, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-wwii-question-fortified-islands-in-boston-harbor/722760/40 "2015-06-19T17:36:05Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#):
>
> Old Farts have said this since Socrates, but I doubt the USA population would be as motivated and act as well as the WWII generation.
I think the “Greatest Generation” theme has been overdone. I give full credit to the people who won WWII but I don’t think we should attribute their victory to some special degree of character that subsequent generations have lacked. It’s worth noting that there was a higher percentage of volunteers during the Vietnam War then there was during World War II.
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