# Antagonists who are revealed to be good guys (or at least supportive to the protagonist) (SPOILERS) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 9, 2010, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antagonists-who-are-revealed-to-be-good-guys-or-at-least-supportive-to-the-protagonist-spoilers/563511 "2010-12-09T06:07:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antagonists-who-are-revealed-to-be-good-guys-or-at-least-supportive-to-the-protagonist-spoilers/563511/1 "2010-12-09T06:07:46Z")
Whenever I start a thread like this I try to come up with at least three examples, but for the life of me I can only find two. In Pixar’s _Ratatouille_, the scary food critic Anton Ego turns out to be the most appreciative of all of Remy’s talents, and funds a new restaurant for him to work in (after the old one is closed down by the health inspector). And in _Men of Honor_, the openly racist and antagonistic Billy Sunday turns out to be the most critical supporter of protagonist Carl Brashear. I thought it was remarkable not only that the antagonist turns out to be a supporting character, but that his racism doesn’t relegate him to a one-dimensional caricature. I think these are examples of some pretty good writing. Are there others? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antagonists-who-are-revealed-to-be-good-guys-or-at-least-supportive-to-the-protagonist-spoilers/563511/2 "2010-12-09T06:37:29Z")
Hope you don’t mind, but I threw a spoiler warning in the title. Probably would have been obvious from the title, but better safe than sorry. Anyway, from the TV show _Avatar_, Prince Zuko spends two seasons trying to capture the Avatar, and the last season teaching him how to bend fire. The scene of him practicing his “I’m a good guy now” speech in his mirror is _hilarious_. ---
**Author:** ![Talon\_Karrde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Talon\_Karrde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Talon_Karrde)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antagonists-who-are-revealed-to-be-good-guys-or-at-least-supportive-to-the-protagonist-spoilers/563511/3 "2010-12-09T07:36:45Z")
I just watched Deadwood the first time, and Al Swearengen is a great example. During the first few episodes I thought he was a total creep and that the show would center around Bullock as the hero and him as the villain. Somewhere along the way that changed, and while it’s debatable whether he is a good guy (I’m inclined to think he is, although the end of the series is troubling), he is definitely on the side of the community of Deadwood. Depending on how you look at it, either the community is collectively the protagonist or it’s him. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antagonists-who-are-revealed-to-be-good-guys-or-at-least-supportive-to-the-protagonist-spoilers/563511/4 "2010-12-09T07:43:22Z")
Snape. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antagonists-who-are-revealed-to-be-good-guys-or-at-least-supportive-to-the-protagonist-spoilers/563511/5 "2010-12-09T07:54:18Z")
Abel Magwitch ---
**Author:** ![Lucky\_13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucky_13/32/13209_2.png) [@Lucky\_13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucky_13)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antagonists-who-are-revealed-to-be-good-guys-or-at-least-supportive-to-the-protagonist-spoilers/563511/6 "2010-12-09T07:59:08Z")
The only one I can think of from anime at the moment: Itachi Uchiha If anyone else can think of others, please add them. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antagonists-who-are-revealed-to-be-good-guys-or-at-least-supportive-to-the-protagonist-spoilers/563511/7 "2010-12-09T10:17:22Z")
In the category of “supportive of the protagonist”, but still definitely not a good guy there’s Loki in the Surtur Saga in the Thor comic book many years ago. He suddenly joined Thor and Odin’s fight against Surtur under the rationale that “What use is being the ruler of all I survey if all I survey is a _burnt out cinder_?” In _Mindkiller_ the antagonist who erased some of the protagonist’s memories turns out to have done so as an alternative to killing him, and only IIRC because the protagonist’s sister asked. Normally he only mindwipes people he can’t get away with killing, as he considers it worse. And it turns out that his big plan is to hide the existence of mindwiping technology from the power hungry of the world until he can reverse the process. The protagonist ends up in a last minute alliance with him to defend it from just such a power seeker, and later the antagonist returned the blanked memories. ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antagonists-who-are-revealed-to-be-good-guys-or-at-least-supportive-to-the-protagonist-spoilers/563511/8 "2010-12-09T10:45:49Z")
In Boondock Saints, Il Duce is first seen to be a fearsome assassin before being revealed as the father of the heroes. This is much to the dismay of the bad guys who hired him in the first place. In Boondock Saints 2, Eunice is initially presented as an antagonist but turns out to be Smecker’s apprentice and thus on the side of the McManus brothers. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antagonists-who-are-revealed-to-be-good-guys-or-at-least-supportive-to-the-protagonist-spoilers/563511/9 "2010-12-09T10:46:56Z")
[Mulholland Falls](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0117107/) The entire movie toys with your expectations. It’s about cops who flagrantly break the law, but it’s not anti-police. It has a mayor who is blatantly corrupt, but it’s not anti-government. It’s about problems in the nuclear industry, but it’s not anti-nuke. And the more stereotypes you have about the actors, the less likely you are to figure out who the real killer is. John Malkovich plays an army general, in charge of a nuclear weapons lab. So of course, he must be the villain! Nope. He turns out to be one of the good guys. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antagonists-who-are-revealed-to-be-good-guys-or-at-least-supportive-to-the-protagonist-spoilers/563511/10 "2010-12-09T11:21:15Z")
In _High Deryni_, in the final formal magical dual between King Kelson & allies against Wencit and allies, one of Wencit’s allies announces that he’s the fellow who’s been helping Kelson in the guise of Saint Camber. _And_ that he’s poisoned everyone on Wencit’s side, including himself. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antagonists-who-are-revealed-to-be-good-guys-or-at-least-supportive-to-the-protagonist-spoilers/563511/11 "2010-12-09T11:24:49Z")
It’s funny, those are my favorite kind of characters, but I could only cite one and it wouldnt ring a bell in anyone. Still, my fav character of my favorite kind of characters is Bulrog from “La Quête de l’oiseau du temps”, one of the best French comic books ( [La Quête de l'oiseau du temps - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Qu%C3%AAte_de_l%27oiseau_du_temps) ). P.S:I dont know why, and I cant think of any good example right now, but I am sure Pratchett’s books abound with such characters. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antagonists-who-are-revealed-to-be-good-guys-or-at-least-supportive-to-the-protagonist-spoilers/563511/12 "2010-12-09T12:44:15Z")
Well, in _Jingo_ there’s 24-hour Ahmed ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antagonists-who-are-revealed-to-be-good-guys-or-at-least-supportive-to-the-protagonist-spoilers/563511/13 "2010-12-09T14:23:14Z")
_Casablanca_ anyone? “Round up the usual suspects.” ---
**Author:** ![mrklutz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ebca7d/32.png) [@mrklutz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mrklutz)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antagonists-who-are-revealed-to-be-good-guys-or-at-least-supportive-to-the-protagonist-spoilers/563511/14 "2010-12-09T17:29:20Z")
William Cooper (Karl Urban’s character) in _Red_ starts out being the man sent to hunt down Frank Moses, and is quite determined to succeed. By the end, he ends up lending a hand at a crucial moment. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antagonists-who-are-revealed-to-be-good-guys-or-at-least-supportive-to-the-protagonist-spoilers/563511/15 "2010-12-09T17:41:29Z")
> [@Lucky\_13](#): > > The only one I can think of from anime at the moment: > > Itachi Uchiha > > If anyone else can think of others, please add them. There’s also Grandis, Sanson and Hanson in [Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nadia:_The_Secret_of_Blue_Water), and Dola and her “sky pirates” in [Castle in the Sky](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_in_the_Sky). They turn to helping the protagonists early in those stories, but they certainly look like bad guys at the start. ---
**Author:** ![AndrewL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@AndrewL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AndrewL)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antagonists-who-are-revealed-to-be-good-guys-or-at-least-supportive-to-the-protagonist-spoilers/563511/16 "2010-12-09T17:51:35Z")
Also from Studio Ghibli, we have Princess Kushana in Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind. In the anime, she’s a straightforward antagonist, although not a terribly unreasonable one. In the manga, her story is a lot more complex and her motivations explained in a lot more detail, and by the end of the story she’s fighting alongside the protagonist. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antagonists-who-are-revealed-to-be-good-guys-or-at-least-supportive-to-the-protagonist-spoilers/563511/17 "2010-12-09T17:55:12Z")
Well, there’s NORTH BY NORTHWEST where Eva Marie Saint’s character starts out as helpful, but then turns out to be an agent working for James Mason, and then turns out to be an agent working for [del]Topper[/del] Leo G Carroll … ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antagonists-who-are-revealed-to-be-good-guys-or-at-least-supportive-to-the-protagonist-spoilers/563511/18 "2010-12-09T18:14:15Z")
Shocked nobody mentioned this guy yet > **[Lando Calrissian](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lando_Calrissian)** > > Landonis Balthazar "Lando" Calrissian III\[a\] is a fictional character in the Star Wars franchise. He was introduced in The Empire Strikes Back (1980) as an old friend of Han Solo and the administrator of the floating Cloud City on the gas planet Bespin. Prior to the events of the film, Lando made a career as a gambler, con artist, playboy, mining engineer, and businessman, and was the owner of the Millennium Falcon until losing the ship to Han in a bet. In the film, when Cloud City is threatene... After all he is in one of the “good” Star Wars movies. ---
**Author:** ![bouv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bc8723/32.png) [@bouv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bouv)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antagonists-who-are-revealed-to-be-good-guys-or-at-least-supportive-to-the-protagonist-spoilers/563511/19 "2010-12-09T18:42:55Z")
In the third season of _24_: Gael is seen several times calling a crime lord and feeding him info. CTU finds him and tortures him to get him to reveal what he knows, but thankfully Tony Almeda arrives and informs the rest of the staff that they, plus Jack, are super-deep undercover with the crime syndicate so they can retrieve a biological weapon. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antagonists-who-are-revealed-to-be-good-guys-or-at-least-supportive-to-the-protagonist-spoilers/563511/20 "2010-12-09T19:00:41Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Shocked nobody mentioned this guy yet > > [Lando Calrissian - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lando_Calrissian) > > After all he is in one of the “good” Star Wars movies. It’s probably because he looks like a protagonist first, then stays an antagonist for only a few minutes. He clearly feels screwed over by Vader about 5 minutes after he turns in his friends. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antagonists-who-are-revealed-to-be-good-guys-or-at-least-supportive-to-the-protagonist-spoilers/563511.md?page=2)