# Antarctic Base: How feasible? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 21, 2002, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antarctic-base-how-feasible/137899 "2002-11-21T08:19:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Skippman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Skippman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skippman)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2002, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antarctic-base-how-feasible/137899/21 "2002-11-21T17:16:38Z")
scr4 - I was thinking they could use them to smuggle supplys to the coast, not nessicarly to sub pens. But you are right about it being almost all earth under the frozen south. I still think the hydroponics would work with UV lamps. You could have them underground and they would still grow. I know that hydroponics was pretty well known in the 50’s but I’m not to sure how well it was known in the 40’s. ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2002, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antarctic-base-how-feasible/137899/22 "2002-11-21T18:34:52Z")
For an added dash of verisimilitude, you might want to check into the story of [U-977](http://uboat.net/boats/u977.htm). It turned up in Mar del Plata, Argentina, after the surrender of Germany after a 108 day voyage, including 66 days continuously submerged and using a Schnorchel. The captain, Heinz Schaffer, wrote a book about it in 1952, entitled _U-977_. It’s out of print but I picked up a copy for a quarter at a used book store a couple of years ago. Schaffer was interned and interrogated for weeks because of a persistent rumor that he had dropped off high-level Nazis in Antarctica. However, his log listed a number of ship and aircraft sightings which confirmed his route straight to Argentina. There was another U-boat tasked with a similar mission, but I am uncertain of its fate. The Germans had a prototypical [peroxide-powered](http://www.withhonourinbattle.com/typxxvi.html) U-boat which presaged the nuclear submarine in performance. They also had supply U-boats, called [milch cows](http://uboat.net/types/milkcows.htm), designed to resupply other U-boats at sea. In addition, the German navy had a number of [armed merchant raiders](http://members.tripod.com/mackenziegregory/log/macslog/MaraudersoftheSea2GermanA.html) (sometimes mistakenly termed [Q-ships](http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq111-1.htm)), though most if not all were sunk before the end of the war, and a fairly extensive fleet of [supply ships](http://www.die-marine.de/english/ships.html#lueneburg) designed to keep its raider fleet at sea. With all those goodies you should be able to get your Nazis to the Antarctic shore. If you wanted to get real creative, why not invent something like an “ice submarine” which could travel (slowly) underneath the Antarctic glaciers by melting or boring a path? Heck, you could even sink a base right at the north pole by heating it up and letting it settle through the ice. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2002, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antarctic-base-how-feasible/137899/23 "2002-11-21T19:10:41Z")
Submitted for your perusal. . . “Genesis” (1980) by W.A. Harbison ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2002, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antarctic-base-how-feasible/137899/24 "2002-11-21T23:22:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mjollnir \* > \*\*Submitted for your perusal. . . > > “Genesis” (1980) by W.A. Harbison \*\* Interesting, but makes me glad my story is not using UFO’s. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2002, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antarctic-base-how-feasible/137899/25 "2002-11-21T23:32:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Skippman \* > \*\*scr4 - I was thinking they could use them to smuggle supplys to the coast, not nessicarly to sub pens. But you are right about it being almost all earth under the frozen south. > \*\* While I love the idea of using U-boats for clandestine transport, I’ve had to rule it out. If for no other reason that even the German U-boats, far more advanced then any other nation’s submarines, were piss poor transports. Little room for anything past their own supplies, fuel and crew. Besides, until later in the war, they had to run on the surface for much of the time. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Skippman \* > \*\* > I still think the hydroponics would work with UV lamps. You could have them underground and they would still grow. I know that hydroponics was pretty well known in the 50’s but I’m not to sure how well it was known in the 40’s. \*\* That’s what I was thinking. As long as Electricity could be supplied (Windmills would work fine here), food could be grown. And water really wouldn’t be a problem. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2002, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antarctic-base-how-feasible/137899/26 "2002-11-21T23:43:27Z")
Two things, Read the book South by Ernest Shackleton. It will give you great insight about survival in the cold. Secondly, all your base are belong to us! [somebody had to say it] ---
**Author:** ![reprise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@reprise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reprise)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2002, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antarctic-base-how-feasible/137899/27 "2002-11-21T23:46:46Z")
You could always contact the [Australian Antarctic Division](http://www.antdiv.gov.au) for clarification of any scientific details. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2002, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antarctic-base-how-feasible/137899/28 "2002-11-22T00:19:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by heresiarch \* > \*\*Most research sites _are_ near the coast, but there is one smack dab at the south pole. ([webcam](http://www.cmdl.noaa.gov/obop/spo/livecamera.html)). A skeleton crew spends the winter there. > > They normally can’t get planes there in the winter, but a few years ago, when there was a medical emergency, a small plane (IIRC a Canadian Sea Otter) flew to the pole from McMurdo. The pilot had to wait a few days for a break in the weather. He was facing high winds, low visibility due to blowing snow, low illumination, and, of course, low temps. Besides the chance of hydraulic fluid getting too thick, low temps and an altitude near 10,000 feet adds up to thin air and very little lift. \*\* Well, I’m thinking that air travel(If for no other reason that it would be tough to actually navigate) would be suspended during the winter and that planes would be stored in shelters (heated somewhat if need be). ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2002, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antarctic-base-how-feasible/137899/29 "2002-11-22T00:22:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rick \* > \*\*Two things, > Read the book South by Ernest Shackleton. It will give you great insight about survival in the cold. > \*\* Good idea. He’d know, wouldn’t he? (IIRC, Everyone survived the expereince during his “Endurance” expedtion) > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rick \* > \*\* > > Secondly, all your base are belong to us! > \*\* No Soup for you! ---
**Author:** ![Spiratu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@Spiratu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiratu)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2002, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antarctic-base-how-feasible/137899/30 "2002-11-22T00:23:19Z")
Hmmm… a story set in the 1930s about an expedition to Antarctica for strange and mysterious reasons? Your board name doesn’t happen to stand for an **HP Lovecraft** , by any chance, does it? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2002, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antarctic-base-how-feasible/137899/31 "2002-11-22T00:34:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Spiratu \* > \*\*Hmmm… a story set in the 1930s about an expedition to Antarctica for strange and mysterious reasons? Your board name doesn’t happen to stand for an **HP Lovecraft** , by any chance, does it? 🙂 \*\* I was wondering how long it would take for someone to pick up on that. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2002, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antarctic-base-how-feasible/137899/32 "2002-11-22T01:42:55Z")
How near to the geographic pole is the south magnetic pole? Maybe you could have the Nazis working to develop a super-weapon involving Tesla-like technology, that has to be located near one of the magnetic poles to work. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2002, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antarctic-base-how-feasible/137899/33 "2002-11-22T04:00:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lumpy \* > \*\*How near to the geographic pole is the south magnetic pole? Maybe you could have the Nazis working to develop a super-weapon involving Tesla-like technology, that has to be located near one of the magnetic poles to work. \*\* Aparently the South magnetic pole is out in the antarctic ocean. ---
**Author:** ![banjoboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4da419/32.png) [@banjoboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/banjoboy)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2002, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antarctic-base-how-feasible/137899/34 "2002-11-22T16:44:03Z")
HPL - though it seems pretty unlikely that UBOATS would be used for transport and so forth, the Nazis did have plans that involved both north and south poles, for whatever reasons, and they DID use uboats to that effect. I don’t have time to post the links right now, but trust me, the Nazis WERE trying to construct some kind of base down there. Whether or not it actually happened, I have no idea. Another bit of info - there are warm areas of earth in the south polar region, with warm waters(some of which connect to the ocean) and bare ground. Would’nt that be a great place to land a sub or build a base? You might wanna factor that into your story. I’ll have those links in a few hours ---
**Author:** ![dorkusmalorkusmafia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dorkusmalorkusmafia/32/7266_2.png) [@dorkusmalorkusmafia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dorkusmalorkusmafia)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2002, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antarctic-base-how-feasible/137899/35 "2002-11-22T17:38:19Z")
Your transportation issues are solved. The windiest place on earth you say? Winds over 200 mph? Let’s just assume they did some research and development and came up with a wind powered vehicle. [Some technical details supporting a vehicle that can travel 4 times faster than the wind! However, I don’t think these were land based.](http://www.btinternet.com/~a.ghinn/windcatmore.htm) I can’t find the link that had the sailboat looking things on skis and wheels that could also be a great form of transportation in a place that is virtually flat and has an excess of wind. Think of them like wind surfing on land. ---
**Author:** ![banjoboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4da419/32.png) [@banjoboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/banjoboy)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2002, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antarctic-base-how-feasible/137899/36 "2002-11-23T02:40:01Z")
here’s one link. I know you’ll find this interesting 😉 [http://www.violations.dabsol.co.uk/enigma/enigmapart1.htm](http://www.violations.dabsol.co.uk/enigma/enigmapart1.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Rhum\_Runner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rhum\_Runner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhum_Runner)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2002, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antarctic-base-how-feasible/137899/37 "2002-11-23T03:34:43Z")
**dorkusmalorkusmafia** ice boats regularly exceed the wind speed, but they are small and light. I am wondering if a 300’ steel hulled windjammer type ship on skis could work, my initial guess is that the friction would cause the skis to melt the ice and dig in… On the Zeppelin angle I think it is just too windy. I think what you need is a hover craft! Great all terrain capability, moderate lifting and load carrying, terrible fuel efficiency, but still kind of cool techno factor. hmmm… ok, how about this. A wind driven ice ship combined with a mini zeppelin on the top. The zeppelin provides some lift so the friction on the blades is reduced, but not enough lift to fly so that the ship gets blown around. Imagine a windjammer sized vessel with a flat bottom, probably would need some outriggers since you wouldn’t have a balasted hull, so this is a trimaran, and along the under side of the main hull are huge hydrogen tanks that provide some lift. Add a huge amount of canvas sails, and off you go! At least until you hit that first mountain range, and then you are stuck. Now that I have rambled all this, I am going to post it anyway. You asked for ideas! ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2002, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antarctic-base-how-feasible/137899/38 "2002-11-23T06:18:18Z")
Well, if you really want to go with the sci-fi/alternate history route, you could try using an [A9/A10](http://www.germanvtol.com/a9folder/a9.html) complex for long range, low capacity cargo drops…though if the Germans had enough of THOSE available that they could spare some for a research base, they’d definitely have used them for standard military purposes first. For a slightly less-outrageous option, you might try a [Me-264](http://users.visi.net/~djohnson/prototyp/me264.html) bomber, which it was hoped, would be able to be converted to a transport version for supplying future German colonies in Africa. Still, like the a9/a10, you’d think an available one would be used for military purposes before research purposes, but if the research base was important enough (like…digging up a few “old ones,” maybe?), using a prototype bomber would seem a lot more realistic than using a prototype ICBM…and the Me-264 DID actually make it to the prototype stage, unlike the A9/a10. 'Hope I’ve been of some help, Ranchoth (If you thought that site was interesting, BTW, you might try [url=][http://j-aircraft.org/xplanes/](http://j-aircraft.org/xplanes/), as well. Scary stuff.) ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2002, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antarctic-base-how-feasible/137899/39 "2002-11-23T06:29:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ranchoth \* > \*\*Well, if you really want to go with the sci-fi/alternate history route, you could try using an [A9/A10](http://www.germanvtol.com/a9folder/a9.html) complex for long range, low capacity cargo drops…though if the Germans had enough of THOSE available that they could spare some for a research base, they’d definitely have used them for standard military purposes first. > > For a slightly less-outrageous option, you might try a [Me-264](http://users.visi.net/~djohnson/prototyp/me264.html) bomber, which it was hoped, would be able to be converted to a transport version for supplying future German colonies in Africa. Still, like the a9/a10, you’d think an available one would be used for military purposes before research purposes, but if the research base was important enough (like…digging up a few “old ones,” maybe?), using a prototype bomber would seem a lot more realistic than using a prototype ICBM…and the Me-264 DID actually make it to the prototype stage, unlike the A9/a10. > > 'Hope I’ve been of some help, > \*\* Quite interesting. THe only problem is that I’ve found is that the germans had no shortage of large submarines/bombers/transports, but they weren’t created until around 1942 at least. While good for supplying and building extentions an already existing base, they are two late to be used to actually partcipate in the original construction in the latter half of the 1930’s(assuming 1935 would be the beginning construction point). But then again, if they had been able to create all the really advanced stuff by 1939, they might have won the war. ---
**Author:** ![Rhum\_Runner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rhum\_Runner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhum_Runner)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2002, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antarctic-base-how-feasible/137899/40 "2002-11-23T15:28:12Z")
Since no one seems to like the windjammer on ice, ☹ What about a large Wing in Ground Effect (WIGE) aircraft? According to [this](http://www.geocities.com/equipmentshop/wig.htm) site, the first WIGE research was done in the 20s. > [@](#): > > Research on wing-ground-effect began in the 1920s. The first WIG craft were patented in Finland in 1935. T. Kaario, the Finnish engineer built what he called the “wing-ram” craft in that year. It isn’t so hard to belive that the Germans could have secretly built and tested a large cargo plane built on the concept [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antarctic-base-how-feasible/137899.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antarctic-base-how-feasible/137899.md?page=3)