Anthony Cumia of "Opie and Anthony" fired for "racist tweets"

[Lemur866]

Look people, “racist” is not some sort of kryptonite. Yeah, I get the whole “Do they call me Anthony the bridge-builder? Do they call me Anthony the painter?” thing. Going off on racist rants regularly makes you a big old jerk, that doesn’t take away all the other things you might or might not be. You can be funny and still be a racist. You can be generous and still be a racist. You can like some people of some races and still be a racist. You can pet your dog and love your kids and pick up garbage on the sidewalk and help little old ladies across the street and still be a racist.

The racist rants don’t erase the part where you help little old ladies across the street, neither does helping little old ladies erase the racism. Both those things are true.

It’s kind of funny. A guy goes off on a racist rant, and people who know him are all, “Well, look at the bigger picture, he’s not saying that because he’s a racist, he’s more of a general-purpose asshole who only says racist things to get attention. Plus he’s pretty funny, and so on.” In other words, look at the whole person before making a judgement about him. Then look at what this person did–someone supposedly punched him after he took her picture. And he starts ranting about how she’s an animal, not a human being, that she’s lucky he didn’t put her to sleep, calling her “it”, and on and on. So not much on looking at the whole person from his side, is there? Like, I’m sure the woman who punched him has some good qualities too. That she punched him doesn’t erase her humanity, does it?

Except the difference is, in a racist’s mind it does erase her humanity. And it erases the humanity of all black people. She’s an animal, they’re all animals, because this is the sort of thing animals like her do. A racist rant by one white professional troll doesn’t make all white people into animals, does it?

Not to mention the misogyny, which we shouldn’t forget. Reminds me of the Duck Dynasty furore, where his racist views were overshadowed by his homophobic comments. Black people weren’t singing the blues? Um, I think they were. It was called “The Blues”.

[wonky]

@Lemur866

Look people, “racist” is not some sort of kryptonite. Yeah, I get the whole “Do they call me Anthony the bridge-builder? Do they call me Anthony the painter?” thing. Going off on racist rants regularly makes you a big old jerk, that doesn’t take away all the other things you might or might not be. You can be funny and still be a racist. You can be generous and still be a racist. You can like some people of some races and still be a racist. You can pet your dog and love your kids and pick up garbage on the sidewalk and help little old ladies across the street and still be a racist.

The racist rants don’t erase the part where you help little old ladies across the street, neither does helping little old ladies erase the racism. Both those things are true.

Exactly.

Your friends can like you. That doesn’t make you a non-racist. Even if some of those friends are black.

[CarnalK]

Can we have tar baby back though? It’s such a perfect little parable.

[The_Hamster_King]

@CarnalK

Can we have tar baby back though? It’s such a perfect little parable.

Tar baby got back.

[cantcurecancer]

As a listener of the show, I can tell you that Anthony is at least a bit racist. It doesn’t seem like it’s a long-running bit, although it often times can be. That doesn’t in any way make his tweets racist. From listening to Anthony, he’s said far worse things on air…to black comedians faces. But some of his choice of words in the tweets were deliberately ambiguous. I can definitely see how many people would take some of those tweets as racist without having any context (maybe even with context).

But someone who calls a black person a ‘savage’ isn’t automatically racist. Opie & Anthony have even talked about this on their show. If you have a list of words you can’t call black people, racists are just going to use different words. This is different from inherently racist words…words that exist for no other reason except to disparage an entire race. ‘Nigger’ is a prime example of a word that needs no context and has only one purpose. I agree that there’s a long history of whites referring to blacks as animals, savages, and so on stemming from the fact that they were viewed as property. But there’s also a long history of calling uncivilized, animal-like behavior as savage. I would call Boko Harem as a bunch of religious savages. Andrew Jackson was a savage because he scalped Indians and fought in duels over pointless things. My point is you can’t just look at the word then look at the race of the other person and then say “it’s racist, end of discussion.”

But none of that matters to the actual argument. The big question is: should he have been fired?

I’ll grant anyone the fact that he shouldn’t have been photographing the woman (even though he’s well within his right to). I’ll also grant anyone the fact that he’s racist (even though that’s up for debate), and even the fact that his tweets were vehemently racist. That still doesn’t mean he should have been fired. He’s done nothing legally wrong, he was well within his 1st amendment rights, something that a ‘shock jock’ knows well about. You shouldn’t be put away for having an opinion, no matter how vile that opinion is. He’s not hurting anyone, if you don’t like him, turn off your radio or don’t follow him on Twitter. Just because someone says something you don’t agree with doesn’t mean that his whole life should be ruined.

This is the free market…if you don’t like the content, go somewhere else and get it. But of course no one wants to do that, right? That would be inconvenient to the person. After all, Donald Sterling’s Clippers stadium was sold out the game after the tapes were released. His statements were absolutely reprehensible, but not bad enough to cancel my Friday night plans.

[ZipperJJ]

Dude, nobody was being “put away” and nobody’s First Amendment rights were being violated. SiriusXM is in the business of paying people to be on their network that people WANT to listen to. Not people that make people want to turn off the radio. What a poor argument.

Sheesh.

[cantcurecancer]

@ZipperJJ

Dude, nobody was being “put away” and nobody’s First Amendment rights were being violated. SiriusXM is in the business of paying people to be on their network that people WANT to listen to. Not people that make people want to turn off the radio. What a poor argument.

Sheesh.

Anthony’s twitter followers know what they’re getting when they hit the follow button. They weren’t expecting that he was going to be talking about puppy dogs and long walks on the beach. Again, he’s said far worse things on air. If you have problem with it, stop listening or unfollow. I can damn-near guarantee that SiriusXM’s numbers weren’t going to be affected in the slightest after Anthony’s rant. And it’s ironic because thousands of people are now unsubscribing to Sirius because they fired Anthony.

[Sr_Siete]

@cantcurecancer

But someone who calls a black person a ‘savage’ isn’t automatically racist.

Well, no. But those were not the tweets that caused his firing. Him insulting one black woman is not the problem. Him tweeting

*“They aren’t people” *

or

“it’s a jungle out in our cities after midnight. Violent savages own the street”

and

“Savage violent animal fucks prey on white people”
is as unambiguous as you can get. There’s, like, no grey zone here. He could have added the hashtag “.#thisistotallyracist” or “#youareseriouslydeludedif youdontseethatthisistextbookracism” but even then it wouldn’t be much more obvious than something that already is.

[joyfool]

@cantcurecancer

Anthony’s twitter followers know what they’re getting when they hit the follow button. They weren’t expecting that he was going to be talking about puppy dogs and long walks on the beach. Again, he’s said far worse things on air. If you have problem with it, stop listening or unfollow. I can damn-near guarantee that SiriusXM’s numbers weren’t going to be affected in the slightest after Anthony’s rant. [bold]And it’s ironic because thousands of people are now unsubscribing to Sirius because they fired Anthony.[/bold]

[Bolding mine.]

Actually, not so ironic. Lots of people follow celebrities (no matter what your value of ‘celebrity’ is) on twitter because they’re necessarily fans, they follow them for the trainwreck factor. See folks like the Kardashians, Courtney Stodden, etc. I’m sure his numbers will stay the same, or even increase, partially due to the fact that many want to see first hand the outrageous things he’ll say that he’ll get shit for.

The other uptick might also be because a lot of racists will now have their attention called towards a kindred spirit. So, there’s that.

[voltaire]

@Lemur866

Look people, “racist” is not some sort of kryptonite. Yeah, I get the whole “Do they call me Anthony the bridge-builder? Do they call me Anthony the painter?” thing. Going off on racist rants regularly makes you a big old jerk, that doesn’t take away all the other things you might or might not be. You can be funny and still be a racist. You can be generous and still be a racist. You can like some people of some races and still be a racist. You can pet your dog and love your kids and pick up garbage on the sidewalk and help little old ladies across the street and still be a racist.

The racist rants don’t erase the part where you help little old ladies across the street, neither does helping little old ladies erase the racism. Both those things are true.

It’s kind of funny. A guy goes off on a racist rant, and people who know him are all, “Well, look at the bigger picture, he’s not saying that because he’s a racist, he’s more of a general-purpose asshole who only says racist things to get attention. Plus he’s pretty funny, and so on.” In other words, look at the whole person before making a judgement about him. Then look at what this person did–someone supposedly punched him after he took her picture. And he starts ranting about how she’s an animal, not a human being, that she’s lucky he didn’t put her to sleep, calling her “it”, and on and on. So not much on looking at the whole person from his side, is there? Like, I’m sure the woman who punched him has some good qualities too. That she punched him doesn’t erase her humanity, does it?

Except the difference is, in a racist’s mind it does erase her humanity. And it erases the humanity of all black people. She’s an animal, they’re all animals, because this is the sort of thing animals like her do. A racist rant by one white professional troll doesn’t make all white people into animals, does it?

You kinda ninja’ed some of the points I was going to make, so I’m going to try to distill those thoughts down to something specific and directly relevant to this thread for **Rucksinator **to reflect on.

Rucks, you cited Chris Rock’s joke about “niggas” being a valid pejorative label that can be widely applied to a significant segment of a population. At the same time, you object to the pejorative label of “racist” to describe the subject of this thread and seem to be saying that it’s applied much too widely.

Seriously, does that seem fair to you?

I’ll spare you my own analysis of that contradiction if you at least do a little self-analysis of your own.

[you_with_the_face]

@cantcurecancer

But none of that matters to the actual argument. The big question is: should he have been fired?

No, the big question is should this guy stay on the air against his employer’s wishes. Because that’s who fired him. Unless you’re the one who is personally bankrolling this guy’s salary, no one cares if you think he shouldn’t have been fired. It’s not your brand that is going to be associated with this idiot, it’s not your customer base that is at stake, and it’s not your public relations office that is blowing up your phone right now.

In any other discussion about the free market, the right of an employer to make whatever hiring and firing decisions he/she wants is often spoken of as though it is some sacrosanct natural law. But let someone pollute the internets with a racist, misogynistic tirade and suddenly, we’re asked to entertain the absurdity that a bigot is somehow entitled to his job.

There are no “shoulds” worth talking about. He was fired because his Twitter performance caused Sirius not to want him anymore. What his fans want is irrelevant.

[Superdude]

@cantcurecancer

He’s done nothing legally wrong, he was well within his 1st amendment rights, something that a ‘shock jock’ knows well about.

Yes, he was within is 1st amendment rights. But the 1st amendment doesn’t say that there are no repercussions for using those rights. And employer can certainly fire someone for saying things via social media that reflect poorly on the employer. It’s happened many times.

[Left_Hand_of_Dorkness]

@cantcurecancer

If you have problem with it, stop listening or unfollow.

How about if I have a problem with it, I exercise my first amendment rights to call him a stupid racist asshole and make it clear to Sirius that I’m unwilling to give money to a corporation that gives him a podium? What do you have against first amendment rights? WHY DO YOU HATE AMERICA?

[dude77]

@MrDibble

Nope. Just like White guys don’t get to call Black men “boy” any more, they don’t get to use animal or savagery metaphors on Black people, without getting called on it.

@MrDibble

Yes, that’s what I’m saying. You can’t call them a nigger, either.

@MrDibble

I’m not so sure. Not if you did it in a public forum. Someone would call you on it (and they’d do so just assuming you were White, BTW, unless you clearly weren’t) That’s just the world we’ve made - reactionary and judgemental. But it was a natural response, I think. Same goes for using sexist language.

are you serious with this ? lol … this is ridiculous … doesn’t matter what your ethnicity is … you commit a heinous crime, you ARE a savage … an animal … whatever other words you want to add to that … doesn’t matter who you are …

there’s a difference between calling a random black guy a n@#$ and calling some pos who committed a violent crime an ‘animal’ or ‘savage’

[Left_Hand_of_Dorkness]

@dude77

are you serious with this ? lol … this is ridiculous … doesn’t matter what your ethnicity is … you commit a heinous crime, you ARE a savage … an animal … whatever other words you want to add to that … doesn’t matter who you are …

there’s a difference between calling a random black guy a n@#$ and calling some pos who committed a violent crime an ‘animal’ or ‘savage’

There is a difference, and it’s not just a difference in degree. A person who uses a racial epithet can’t hide behind the defense of ignorance; a person who uses a word like “savage” can. If you don’t know about the history of racism behind the use of “savage” as a noun, sure, you might get away with a warning. If you know its history and use it anyway, well, the finger-wagging starts for realz.

[Hector_St_Clare]

@MrDibble

You realise you’re agreeing with someone who sees nothing wrong with saying the majority of the population in Africa’s most developed country are “fresh out of the bush”, and considers most Africans to be little better than children, right?

Having actually read the stuff that you and Shodan are linking to, I must say that I don’t find anything particularly objectionable in what he writes, and I agree with him much more than with you.

[Hector_St_Clare]

@dude77

are you serious with this ? lol … this is ridiculous … doesn’t matter what your ethnicity is … you commit a heinous crime, you ARE a savage … an animal … whatever other words you want to add to that … doesn’t matter who you are …

there’s a difference between calling a random black guy a n@#$ and calling some pos who committed a violent crime an ‘animal’ or ‘savage’

Yup.

[wonky]

@Hector_St_Clare

Having actually read the stuff that you and Shodan are linking to, I must say that I don’t find anything particularly objectionable in what he writes, and I agree with him much more than with you.

Let me guess, you want to take away his right to vote, too?

[Merneith]

@dude77

there’s a difference between calling a random black guy a n@#$ and calling some pos who committed a violent crime an ‘animal’ or ‘savage’

1. In point of fact, there’s no evidence that the woman in question committed any sort of crime, violent or otherwise. Soooo not a savage, then, right?

2. Even if she did commit a crime, taking that one example and then declaring that all blacks are savages, the way Cumia does, is still racist and dumb.

@cantcurecancer

Anthony’s twitter followers know what they’re getting when they hit the follow button. They weren’t expecting that he was going to be talking about puppy dogs and long walks on the beach. Again, he’s said far worse things on air. If you have problem with it, stop listening or unfollow. I can damn-near guarantee that SiriusXM’s numbers weren’t going to be affected in the slightest after Anthony’s rant. And it’s ironic because thousands of people are now unsubscribing to Sirius because they fired Anthony.

This isn’t about Anthony’s twitter followers because it’s not Anthony’s twitter followers who provide Anthony’s radio paycheck. It’s about his sponsors. Anthony doesn’t have a divine right to a radio show. If he pisses off his sponsors and loses his advertising, then he’s out of work - just like anyone else who costs their employer money. It’s just that simple.

[Hippy_Hollow]

I love how the very same people who are sick of racism, puzzling why we are so race-obsessed in this country, why can’t we get over this we elected a Black president… are the very ones that actually feed the beast that is racism.

Let me draw an imperfect analogy: drunk driving. Decades ago, drinking and driving was no big deal. Get in a fender bender because you had a few too many? It’s okay! But what happened? Over time, people who were the victims of drunk driving spoke out, and made it clear that even though not every drunk driver ends up killing a family of five, driving over the limit is wrong. It just is. There’s a very small threshold for drinking then driving, but if you’re over the limit you won’t get much sympathy from the general public. You can’t post on your Facebook feed that you were a little drunk driving home - people will excoriate you. It’s not funny, it’s not witty, it’s not “boys will be boys.” It’s just wrong, and 99% of people out there will agree. Even if you don’t end up killing anyone.

Unfortunately, we don’t have a MADD for racism. Because we could seriously do some damage if we could recognize racism when we see it. cantcurecancer is actually questioning whether Cumia is racist despite the sterling (no pun intended) record of racist jokes, insults, stereotypes, etc. he’s produced over time. Who’re you gonna believe, me or your lying eyes?

Lemur866 explains it beautifully upthread. Racists are people too. They can have good qualities, help old ladies across the street, even give money to causes that support the people they find inferior (hi Donald Sterling!). But they can also harbor hateful, regressive stereotypes and views about a group of people based on phenotype.

As to poor li’l Cumia being forced out of his job by angry Black folk, womyn, and gayfolk: I am glad to acknowledge that SiriusXM is a cold hearted capitalistic bitch of a corporation who does not give one shit what ANYBODY thinks. They care about profits. They possibly care more about things that detract from their profitmaking. And since the days of:

[ul]
[li]Jimmy the Greek[/li][li]Don Imus[/li][li]Paula Deen[/li][li]Donald Sterling[/li]
[li]Bonus: Black guy fired for homophobic comments, Isaiah Washington![/li][/ul]

…it’s been clear that corporations do not appreciate being associated with racism (or in Washington’s case, homophobia). It’s bad for business, and if he thought he was somehow exempt from this rule, Cumia is truly stupid, ensconced in privilege, or some combination of the two. Other businesses don’t want to have their goods affiliated with your name, they stop paying for ads, and corporations lose money (and attract the wrong kind of attention). That decision had nothing to do with Black or White, it was all about green. (Basically, what you with the face said.)

Think back to the Montgomery Bus Boycott in the late 1950s. Shit didn’t get better because all of a sudden the Montgomery bus operator grew a conscience. They were losing tons of money so capitalism led them to social justice. The marketplace, for all its imperfections, actually does a decent job of promoting good business practices (treating all of your customers and clients with respect) and dissuading bad ones.

As others have said nobody’s First Amendment rights have been abrogated. Cumia is free to say more and double down on his rants. Of course, in the marketplace, his employer can break him off for acting like an ass. I would wager that letting your (racist) freak flag fly in a business where image matters would be a justifiable dismissal. (I can’t imagine too many labor lawyers looking to take on his case.)