Right, and those worst words are racist words (or sexist, or antisemitic). Decent people don’t go there; only assholes do, and when one uses racist words, one is a racist asshole.
How much outrage has Mr. Cumia expressed over white people who don’t contribute to society?
And if he has done so, has he ever specifically mentioned a “white community” with such a problem?
I’ve said it before: I’m not racist, but the white community really needs to get its shit together. White people have got this toxic culture of smarmy entitlement that’s ruining America. I mean, sure, they might have been raised by parents who grew up under Jim Crow and didn’t know any better, but c’mon, how long are they going to use that as an excuse? The good white people need to step up, not accept what’s happening in their communities, not accept savages like Cumia, or country songs that glorify criminals and violence against women, or political parties that just give handouts to rich white people. Again, I’m not racist, and I know not all white people are like that, but I’m not some sort of politically correct idiot who’s going to pretend like there’s not a cancer on white people culture.
You think wrong.
Look, prejudice comes from stripping somebody of their individuality. When you state that all members of a group “are” something, that’s what you are doing. You stop presenting them as a collection of individuals. When that prejudice includes a race, or even a subset of a race, that’s what we call racism.
Had Cumia gone on in his tweets attacking the six individuals involved in the altercation, you could actually defend that the tweets weren’t racism. He didn’t. He attacked a group, he deprived every member of that group of their right to have individual opinions and behaviour. That’s what we call racism. By definition.
You’re way, way wrong here… those three things are bigoted things to say, even if they’re more understandable than ‘unprovoked’ use of such language. It doesn’t mean such a person who said such things is a monster, but it does mean that such a person just said something racist.
I’ve had bad things happen to me, including violent assault, by people of other races/religions/groups, and I was never tempted to use a racist slur.
You’re probably getting tired of it because it’s a bad point. It’s not credible that when he said “black community” he meant anything other than the common use of the phrase, which, in the US, means “black people in the US”.
Being pissed doesn’t magically make a racist statement non-racist.
No, I am arguing (if I understand you correctly) that the semantic content of “not experienced with democracy” is not racist even if it has the same semantic content as another statement that is racist.
To use your example, I am not arguing that “nigger” isn’t racist. I am arguing that “black person” isn’t racist even though it has the same semantic content as “nigger”. Therefore, “not experienced with democracy” isn’t racist, even though it has the same semantic content as “one leg in the bush”.
Regards,
Shodan
So the “one leg in the bush” (or similar) statement was a racist statement?
I think you mean I linked to my own words. And it is not weak at all - it is just a way to deal with stonewall denial.
No, the rule is as explained.
Of course, there is another rule (of thumb) that is common to this kind of discussion. It is that those who don’t respond with substance, can’t respond with substance. When one side is reduced to the sort of gratuitous, unsubstantiated denial such as you and MrDibble have been spouting, it is clear that you have nothing. As is often intended, the charge of “racist” has had its effect of shutting off debate, at least one side. The fact that it hasn’t shut off the other side is irritating to you, no doubt, but you will splutter a bit more and then wind down.
I mean, come on - when MrDibble simply announces that white people don’t have the priviilege of speaking in ways he dislikes, without even an attempt at justification, or the repetitive ad hominems you and he have been attempting - it is rather clear your knee is jerking rather than your cerebral cortex is working.
I am not always right. but when exchanges go like this -
Me: Here is what I think (on a racial subject), and an explanation of why.
The Other Side: Racism!
Somebody Else: What he said makes sense.
The Other Side: He’s a racist!
Me: I don’t think so. Here’s what I said, and an explanation.
The Other Side: Racist!
Me: Did you read the other thread? Do you have any response to either that, or what I have posted in this thread?
The Other Side: Racistracistracist! You aren’t arguing substantively! Racistracistracist!
Me:
Regards,
Shodan
PS - Obviously this does not refer to people like Frylock.
You’re not the only one posting links to your words. “We” is perfectly apropos
Disagreement =/= denial.
I don’t have to justify it - like I said before, it’s an observation, not an injunction. Use racist language, and you will get called on it. That’s the world we live in now.
You know, if linking to your own words is an ad hominem, you may want to reconsider what you’re saying…
We’ll leave aside your bullshit mischaracterisation of the people arguing with you, as it’s not worth the electrons. Everyone else is perfectly capable of seeing your posts both here and in the linked thread.
I stand by what I said - you did say there was nothing wrong with saying the majority of South Africans were fresh out of the bush (your specific response was “And?”) and you do strongly support the race realists who insist that SubSaharan Africans have sub-adult intelligence. Neither of my points was a “complete fiction” - they were facts.
But that’s the reaction I’d expect from someone who thinks prolonging Apartheid was just peachy-keen, so no surprises there.
Are you fucking kidding me?
What you just wrote is the quintessential definition of racism. How is it anything else?
I… I just can’t, Rucksinator. If you are going to argue this point just know, that people like you are the very core of “casual racism.” You act like you see people as individuals, but when you’re pissed, oops! Out pops the most harmful thing you can say. Which denigrates an individual based on their race or gender. So all along, just beneath the surface, you’ve registered that this person is a potential nigger, or potential cunt… if they dare cross you, you’ll make it known.
When I’m on the highway and some asshole cuts me off, I can honestly say I don’t go to their gender or race as an insult. They’re a fuckwad, a moron, a jackass. I have put in the work to overcome my prejudices, and while I’m not perfect, I have a much higher standard for myself than to associate with troglodytes like Cumia in the cesspool of racism or sexism. If the person I’m associating with is truly useless, I have so many other ways of describing their actions that have to do with that individual not their race or gender.
Would you make those comments within earshot of a Black person, or a woman? Do you think they would understand that you are targeting “1 individual” and not anyone else with that same background?
And don’t dare elevate your behavior to being nonviolent. The permissiveness of what you say has an impact on people. What would be the impact of a child hearing you single out someone’s race or gender? Think of it this way: if you go toe-to-toe with someone of equal strength, come to blows, and it’s over, those bruises will heal. It’s a fair fight. But you demonstrated that you fight dirty. I’m assuming you’re a White male, and I doubt you have ever experienced any real disadvantage from those identities… but you’re willing to inflict that on someone else.
I almost never get into these discussions on this board, because people here generally wave away any discussion of discrimination and contort themselves to excuse or rationalize any honest presentation of these issues. If you actually express concern about something being racist, homophobic, ableist, sexist, jingoistic… the person pointing this out is usually called the crazy or reactionary one.
A few weeks ago, I posted about the absurdity and obnoxiousness of the phrase “check your privilege.” However, I do think that phrase has applicability to you, Rucksinator.
The only thing I’m going to say about Shodan’s comment is that no discussion of race or racism takes place in a hermetically sealed context. History and society always weigh in, and to discuss racism in the abstract like laws of physics is to entirely miss the point.
Hell, even natural laws like gravity are affected by context.
Holy shit, those are incredibly racist things to say, even when you’re pissed. I thought at the beginning of this thread that maybe your love for the radio show blinded you to what everyone else saw, and you weren’t a racist asshole yourself.
However, you saying this convinces me otherwise. Any decent person who heard you saying those things would be shocked. I also notice that you even put the imaginary offenses into racial stereotypes - the black guy raped and stole, the jew foreclosed on your house. You’re in a hole already, and you just keep digging.
I wouldn’t say that’s sexist, but it’s hateful and rude to the point that if I heard anyone say those words, I would not want to be around him.
I would.
Yeah, but he was in fact being racist so I don’t see why its a problem to point out that he was being racist. There is no real analysis necessary here, you have to go through extensive mental contortions to see this as anything BUT racist. The repeated reference to her race and the black community makes the whole thing facially racist and you have to make a pretty convincing argument to see ti any other way. you haven’t made that argument yet.
Unfortunately, this is an understandably common reaction in most people. IOW, most people are racist or can be if you are sufficiently upset (as this guy might have been).
And one of the reasons you are aware of this is because this guy took pains to point out that his assailant was black.
I think it was clear to most readers that he was talking about black people.
He was talking about the black community.
And in his mind that includes just about all black people.
Referring to a person’s race in anger or disdain is sorta racist. It doesn’t mean you are the second coming of Bull Connor but at least in that one instance, you were being racist. This fellow apparently says racist shit all the time and plays it off like he is sort of joking.
You’re wrong.
Yeah and they are offensively racist and sexist language to express that anger.
And sometimes those words are racist and offend an entire population.
Seriously?
I think it’s notable that the examples Rucksinator picked for supposedly non-racist uses of slurs – a black violent rapist, and a Jewish greedy banker – fit the worst stereotypes like a glove.
Not to mention a stalking woman.
There is so much historical baggage regarding hypersexual Black men raping White women - Emmitt Till was lynched based on this very fear. Interesting that it’s the example Rucksinator uses.
He didn’t mention, for instance, that he might call a school shooter “a fucking cracker-assed ofay.” Because the overwhelming majority of them are White males, you know.