# Anthrax letter "person of interest," Steven Hatfill is suing the government. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 26, 2003, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anthrax-letter-person-of-interest-steven-hatfill-is-suing-the-government/197859 "2003-08-26T23:35:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anthrax-letter-person-of-interest-steven-hatfill-is-suing-the-government/197859/1 "2003-08-26T23:35:08Z")
[Washington Post](http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A48413-2003Aug26?language=printer) > [@](#): > > WASHINGTON - The bioterrorism expert under scrutiny in the 2001 anthrax attacks filed a lawsuit Tuesday accusing Attorney General John Ashcroft and other government officials of trampling his constitutional rights and using him as a scapegoat for their failure to make an arrest in the case. > > Dr. Steven J. Hatfill claims that, by labeling him a “person of interest” in the case, Ashcroft and other federal authorities have destroyed his reputation and ruined his job prospects. > > “Mr. Ashcroft acted to protect both his department’s and his own political future and public image at the expense of Dr. Hatfill’s constitutional rights,” said the lawsuit filed in U.S. District Court. Hatfill is claiming that his public identification as a suspect in the anthrax attacks (and let’s be honest, the feds strongly insinuated that he was a suspect despite their mealy-mouthed semantic qualifications) and constant, smothering surveillance have pretty much ruined his life. After repeated searches of his home, his girlfriend’s home and a storage facility linked to Hatfill, investigators have found no evidence that he has any connection to the case. Although they persist in their disingenuous claims that he is not a suspect, they continue to follow him everywhere he goes and listen to every conversation. They are following him so closely that they once literally ran him over. > [@](#): > > Last May, Hatfill was struck by a vehicle being driven by an FBI employee who was tailing him in Washington’s Georgetown neighborhood. Hatfill was not seriously injured. In addition, Hatfill claimed his conversations are monitored. When is enough enough. No evidence has been found against this man after two years of intensive investigation and surveillance. He has not been charged with a crime or even officially named as a suspect so when does he get his right to privacy back? How long can the feds keep harassing him without filing charges. Not only is the loss of privacy destructive but his professional reputation has probably been damaged beyond repair even if it can be shown that he is completely innocent, I’m hoping that Hatfill succeeds with his lawsuit but I don’t know how much legal standing he has. Does Hatfill have a case? Do the fesds have an obligation to charge him or leave him alone? I’d be particularly obliged by any input we can get from the lawyers on the board ( **Dewey, Minty, Bricker, Hamlet**?) Who is right and who is wrong with regards to this lawsuit? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anthrax-letter-person-of-interest-steven-hatfill-is-suing-the-government/197859/2 "2003-08-26T23:37:55Z")
Good, by God. The man has been royally shafted. The bit where Ashcroft arranged for Hatfill to be fired from his job really rankled. Trinopus ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2003, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anthrax-letter-person-of-interest-steven-hatfill-is-suing-the-government/197859/3 "2003-08-27T00:00:39Z")
I’ve inclined to be damned suspicious whenever the Gov’t resorts to ‘trial by public ordeal.’ They have a damned poor record when they go this route. The real cases, the ones that actually put people in jail tend to be secret until _after_ an arrest. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2003, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anthrax-letter-person-of-interest-steven-hatfill-is-suing-the-government/197859/4 "2003-08-27T00:35:43Z")
There are other suspects not even being considered. > **[While Media Spotlights One Anthrax Suspect, Another Is Too Hot to Touch :...](https://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2002/11/13/15429311.php)** > > The most likely culprit of the anthrax attacks was Philip Zack. This is a man that was sued by two of his co-workers for racist remarks against them -- both of the co-workers were of Arab descent. After encouraging everyone to believe Arab... ---
**Author:** ![hansel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6bbea6/32.png) [@hansel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hansel)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2003, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anthrax-letter-person-of-interest-steven-hatfill-is-suing-the-government/197859/5 "2003-08-27T06:04:40Z")
After Richard Jewel was put through the same sort of treatment for the Atlanta Olympics bombing, didn’t he successfully sue for compensation based on what had been done to his life? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2003, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anthrax-letter-person-of-interest-steven-hatfill-is-suing-the-government/197859/6 "2003-08-27T06:13:30Z")
Jewel sued some media outlets. I don’t know if he sued the government. I imagine the government would be harder. Jewel’s ordeal only lasted a couple of months and the government publicly cleared him. They’ve just been letting Hatfill swing in the wind for two years now. I don’t think it’s enough for them to say he’s not a suspect (which everyone knows is crap). They should either make a case or leave this guy alone. It would also be nice if they would make a public declaration of his innocence but Ashcroft is probably incapable of ever admitting he was wrong…a characteristic which seems to permeate this administration. ---
**Author:** ![Violet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/ebca7d/32.png) [@Violet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Violet)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2003, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anthrax-letter-person-of-interest-steven-hatfill-is-suing-the-government/197859/7 "2003-08-27T06:20:00Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\* After repeated searches of his home, his girlfriend’s home and a storage facility linked to Hatfill, …_\* I wanted what probable cause was used for the searches? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2003, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anthrax-letter-person-of-interest-steven-hatfill-is-suing-the-government/197859/8 "2003-08-27T13:50:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Violet \* > \*\*I wanted what probable cause was used for the searches? \*\* [Ashcroft} Probable cause? We don’t need no stinking probable cause! [/Ashcroft] ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2003, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anthrax-letter-person-of-interest-steven-hatfill-is-suing-the-government/197859/9 "2003-08-27T14:06:09Z")
**Diogenes** , to paraphrase Renee Zellwegger, you had me at Hatfill. But then you lost me at “probable cause”. You KNOW that’s not how the searches were conducted; there was no need to go over the top in accusing the government of actions they didn’t take, especially when the actions they _have_ taken in this case have been absolutely disgraceful. - Rick ---
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2003, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anthrax-letter-person-of-interest-steven-hatfill-is-suing-the-government/197859/10 "2003-08-27T14:08:58Z")
About time he did this. I hope he gets some masterful shysters to help him out. The only thing I regret is that the real criminals (Ashcroft and his ilk) won’t see justice in this matter. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2003, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anthrax-letter-person-of-interest-steven-hatfill-is-suing-the-government/197859/11 "2003-08-27T16:19:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bricker \* > \*\ ***Diogenes** , to paraphrase Renee Zellwegger, you had me at Hatfill. > > But then you lost me at “probable cause”. You KNOW that’s not how the searches were conducted; there was no need to go over the top in accusing the government of actions they didn’t take, especially when the actions they _have_ taken in this case have been absolutely disgraceful. > > - Rick \*\* I was only joking about the “probable cause” thing. I think they did have enough cause to do some searches at first. I just think they’ve dragged this out way too long at this point. What do you think his chances are with this lawsuit? ---
**Author:** ![IzzyR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/2acd7d/32.png) [@IzzyR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IzzyR)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2003, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anthrax-letter-person-of-interest-steven-hatfill-is-suing-the-government/197859/12 "2003-08-27T17:01:32Z")
The feds apparently believe that Hatfill is guilty. They don’t have any evidence. But they have motive, opportunity and profile. These don’t stand up in court, obviously. But they are legitimate reasons to believe in his guilt. They have been harrassing him for two years because they are trying to find actual evidence. I don’t know if you can criticize them for this. Of course, if it is in fact true that Hatfill is innocent, then he is suffering unjustly. Also if it is in fact true that Kobe is innocent, then _he_ is suffering unjustly. That’s the way the system works. And I certainly don’t see how you can criticize the gov for causing him to lose his job. If there is any reasonable chance that he is the guilty party, then he is a security risk who should not be given a sensitive job. Security clearance is not dependent on “guilty beyond reasonable doubt” standards, fortunately. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2003, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anthrax-letter-person-of-interest-steven-hatfill-is-suing-the-government/197859/13 "2003-08-27T17:15:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > > What do you think his chances are with this lawsuit? Sadly, pretty slim. He’s going to have to show real bad faith on the part of the government, and the government is going to resist showing WHY they’re targetting him. He’ll be reduced to making conclusory allegations without proof that he’s being targetted for unsustainable reasons. Police of all stripes - local and feds - are very resistant to changing their minds. Usually, they focus on the right guy. When they don’t, getting them to change their focus is a task of Syssiphusian (sp?) proportions. - Rick ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2003, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anthrax-letter-person-of-interest-steven-hatfill-is-suing-the-government/197859/14 "2003-08-27T18:23:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by IzzyR \* > The feds apparently believe that Hatfill is guilty. They don’t have any evidence. But they have motive, opportunity and profile. These don’t stand up in court, obviously. But they are legitimate reasons to believe in his guilt. I would quibble with your assessment of the case. AFAIK the feds don’t really have motive. About the only motives I can think of for mailing anthrax would be insanity or association with are al Qaeda. The claim of “profile” is a bit stronger. Hatfill has an unusual background. But the profile must be hypothetical. The crime of mailing anthrax is too rare for anyone to have compiled areal profile, that is, a profile based on the type of people who actually have committed this sort of crime. However, Hatfill may well be guilty. The feds’ certainty suggests that they may have something more than has been made public. **Bricker** , I appreciate your assessment. I would assume that the government has virtually no evidence against Hatfill. Otherwise, they might have brought charges. And, AFAIK no evidence has been made public. Hatfill can argue that the feds have good reason to believe he’s innocent. He passed polygraph tests, there was no trace of anthrax in his home, etc. The fact that they’ve been searching so hard without finding anything is negative evidence of some sort. Even if he doesn’t win damages, can he hope to get some sort of injunction against future harassment? I wonder whether Hatfill’s bringing suit is a sign that he’s innocent. A guilty person might hesitate to encourage even more investigation. OTOH if he’s guilty, he may feel that more investigation isn’t possible or that his crime is totally covered up. ---
**Author:** ![IzzyR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/2acd7d/32.png) [@IzzyR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IzzyR)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2003, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anthrax-letter-person-of-interest-steven-hatfill-is-suing-the-government/197859/15 "2003-08-27T19:23:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > I would quibble with your assessment of the case. AFAIK the feds don’t really have motive. About the only motives I can think of for mailing anthrax would be insanity or association with are al Qaeda. I seem to recall personal motives as being the motive. Hatfield had recently lost security clearance after failing a lie-detector test of some sort. > [@](#): > > The claim of “profile” is a bit stronger. Hatfill has an unusual background. But the profile must be hypothetical. The crime of mailing anthrax is too rare for anyone to have compiled areal profile, that is, a profile based on the type of people who actually have committed this sort of crime. I don’t know if you have to have a profile for the exact specific crime committed - you might compare it to other similar crimes. FWIW, I tend to be pretty skeptical of all these profiles as a rule. Nonetheless, they seem to be an accepted part of detective work these days. > [@](#): > > However, Hatfill may well be guilty. The feds’ certainty suggests that they may have something more than has been made public. Or something that is inadmissible in court. I think they have some bloodhound evidence. > [@](#): > > Hatfill can argue that the feds have good reason to believe he’s innocent. He passed polygraph tests I thought he also failed some polygraph tests as well, but I could be wrong. > [@](#): > > I wonder whether Hatfill’s bringing suit is a sign that he’s innocent. A guilty person might hesitate to encourage even more investigation. OTOH if he’s guilty, he may feel that more investigation isn’t possible or that his crime is totally covered up. I would go for the latter option. He has been investigated for almost 2 years now - you would have to think anything that was going to turn up would have by now. If I was him I would be pretty confident by now, even if I was guilty, and also sick and tired by now of all this government harassment. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2003, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anthrax-letter-person-of-interest-steven-hatfill-is-suing-the-government/197859/16 "2003-08-27T20:40:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*I’d be particularly obliged by any input we can get from the lawyers on the board ( **Dewey, Minty, Bricker, Hamlet**?) > \*\* Dammit! Someday I’ll make partner! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2003, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anthrax-letter-person-of-interest-steven-hatfill-is-suing-the-government/197859/17 "2003-08-28T19:21:31Z")
Whatever happened to “innocent until proven guilty”? Seems to me that the soft pseudo-science that is profiling is far too weak to support _two years_ of extraordinarily expensive harrassment, especially as it’s almost certain that if they haven’t found enough to charge him on yet, they never will. BTW: Jewell _considered_ suing the FBI, but apparantly chose not to, in the end. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2003, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anthrax-letter-person-of-interest-steven-hatfill-is-suing-the-government/197859/18 "2003-08-28T19:49:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by IzzyR \* > I don’t know if you have to have a profile for the exact specific crime committed - you might compare it to other similar crimes. If “similar crime” means “mass murder of randomly chosen Americans”, we can do that from the public record 9/11…Muslims, immigrants & non-Americans Washington D.C. sniper…Muslim, immigrant Unabomber…Nuts, loner, environmentalist Oklahoma City…Right wing group membership Non-political mass murderers…nuts and/or amoral AFAIK Dr. Hatfill doesn’t fall in any of these categories ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2003, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anthrax-letter-person-of-interest-steven-hatfill-is-suing-the-government/197859/19 "2003-08-28T20:30:08Z")
IIRC, FBI profilers thought that the Unabomber would be uneducated and possibly a high school drop out. Kazynzky was an ivy league mathemetician, That shows what profiles are worth. ---
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2003, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anthrax-letter-person-of-interest-steven-hatfill-is-suing-the-government/197859/20 "2003-08-28T20:30:50Z")
Perhaps this lawsuit is Hatfill’s “put up or shut up” to the Commisars. Apparatchik Ashcroft’s goons could be subpoena’ed for that “secret information” they keep claiming to have on Hatfill as part of the civil suit. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anthrax-letter-person-of-interest-steven-hatfill-is-suing-the-government/197859.md?page=2)