# Anthrax letters -- Are you kidding me? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 1, 2008, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anthrax-letters-are-you-kidding-me/458532 "2008-08-01T19:57:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2008, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anthrax-letters-are-you-kidding-me/458532/41 "2008-08-02T04:27:37Z")
The notion that network reporters make things up is just as asinine as any White House conspiracy theory. We also know for a fact that the WH was trying to hang anything and everything it could on Iraq at the time. No professional news organization relies on only one source. The WH was feeding Iraq to the press. I don’t believe for a second that they were behind it or knew who it was, but I do think they wanted to get Iraq into the atmosphere, so they did. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2008, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anthrax-letters-are-you-kidding-me/458532/42 "2008-08-02T05:16:17Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] The notion that network reporters make things up is just as asinine as any White House conspiracy theory. We also know for a fact that the WH was trying to hang anything and everything it could on Iraq at the time. No professional news organization relies on only one source. The WH was feeding Iraq to the press. I don’t believe for a second that they were behind it or knew who it was, but I do think they wanted to get Iraq into the atmosphere, so they did. [/QUOTE] Except that they didn’t. No one in the administration connected the Anthrax to Iraq. In fact, they came right out of the gate warning people to not jump to conclusions about terrorism, and they released findings indicating that it was American Anthrax as soon as they had it. Come on, think about it - if the administration had wanted to use the Anthrax as a smoking gun pointing at Iraq, they would have been all over the place telling anyone who would listen that this was exactly the kind of thing Saddam would do, and that Saddam was known to have Anthrax in his possession, and that the letters had anti-American and anti-Semitic slurs in them, yada yada. They would have found an easy excuse to classify the information that it came from an American lab so that no one would know about it. They could have really stoked the fires over that one. But they didn’t. They came out in calm, measured tones and told everyone not to be hasty in assuming it was foreign terrorists. They released all information they got, as soon as they got it. The actual vibe I got from the administration at the time is that they were worried about people panicking, with a second attack coming so soon after 9/11, and they were trying to put out the fire. Even if they wanted to tie it to Iraq, I’ll bet they felt that it was more important to calm the population down than to announce, “hey, guess what? We’ve got another enemy!” ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2008, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anthrax-letters-are-you-kidding-me/458532/43 "2008-08-02T05:23:11Z")
Thre was no other source for the suggestions that the anthrax came from Iraq than the administration. I don’t care what they said publicly, off the record, they were trying to plant the idea that Iraq was responsible, They weren’t going to marry themselves to that publicly, but they wanted to plant it subliminally. They weren’t trying to use it as a smoking gun – they knew they couldn’t back that up. All they wanted to do was plant the scent. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2008, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anthrax-letters-are-you-kidding-me/458532/44 "2008-08-02T06:46:53Z")
Perhaps they tried and it just didn’t fly. Or, equally likely, they believed it themselves and were genuinely surprised when it turned out to be the pixie dust of Death. It also fit neatly into their aching needs. The anthrax spores were obviously made by sophisticated experts, so if follows that if Saddam had weapons _this_ up to date, he must have more! The threat of Saddam was exaggerated, and as the props for that exaggeration fell away, it floated on its own buoyancy, it was “out there”. The conclusion remained after the premises had vanished. ---
**Author:** ![Tenebras](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@Tenebras](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tenebras)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2008, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anthrax-letters-are-you-kidding-me/458532/45 "2008-08-02T07:05:04Z")
[QUOTE=kunilou] Anyone who says there were warnings “by unidentified government officials” to “start taking cipro” is either full of shit or a flat out liar. [/QUOTE] This past March, for the fifth anniversary of the war in Iraq: > [@](#): > > The attacks were not entirely unexpected. I had been told soon after Sept. 11 to secure Cipro, the antidote to anthrax. The tip had come in a roundabout way from a high government official, and I immediately acted on it. I was carrying Cipro way before most people had ever heard of it. [Richard Cohen at Slate.](http://www.slate.com/id/2186766/) ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2008, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anthrax-letters-are-you-kidding-me/458532/46 "2008-08-02T08:17:30Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Thre was no other source for the suggestions that the anthrax came from Iraq than the administration. I don’t care what they said publicly, off the record, they were trying to plant the idea that Iraq was responsible, They weren’t going to marry themselves to that publicly, but they wanted to plant it subliminally. They weren’t trying to use it as a smoking gun – they knew they couldn’t back that up. All they wanted to do was plant the scent. [/QUOTE] ABC didn’t say it was an unnamed administration source - they just said they had a source. It seems to me that now that it looks like the Anthrax mailer was a bioweapons researcher who was trying to inflame hatred against Muslims, he’s the likely source ABC had. Or it could have been a retired weapons expert who claimed to be in the ‘know’, or another researcher. You’re jumping to an awful lot of conclusions. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2008, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anthrax-letters-are-you-kidding-me/458532/47 "2008-08-02T09:34:04Z")
[QUOTE=Sam Stone] Let me get this straight: An unnamed source of ABC news says there was Bentonite in the Anthrax, but the White House denies it. [/quote] No. Let me repeat: > [@](#): > > **Four** well-placed and separate sources told ABCNEWS that initial tests detected bentonite C’mon, where did ABC get **four** such sources? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2008, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anthrax-letters-are-you-kidding-me/458532/48 "2008-08-02T09:45:59Z")
Maybe the Washington Post will do [a 13-part series](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/metro/specials/chandra/) on the anthrax attacks, and tell us who the sources were for stories like ABC’s and information of the sort Cohen got, and what their game was. And maybe a leprechaun will show me where his stash of gold is hidden, and I can retire into a life of luxury. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2008, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anthrax-letters-are-you-kidding-me/458532/49 "2008-08-02T15:07:35Z")
[QUOTE=Sam Stone] ABC didn’t say it was an unnamed administration source - they just said they had a source. It seems to me that now that it looks like the Anthrax mailer was a bioweapons researcher who was trying to inflame hatred against Muslims, he’s the likely source ABC had. Or it could have been a retired weapons expert who claimed to be in the ‘know’, or another researcher. You’re jumping to an awful lot of conclusions. [/QUOTE] Not “a” source, multiple sources. No professional news organization reports anything with only one source. Those sources could only have beenin the administration. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2008, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anthrax-letters-are-you-kidding-me/458532/50 "2008-08-02T15:09:26Z")
By the way, the White House also denied it was the source of the Plame leak. A Bush administration denial is virtual confirmation of truth. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2008, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anthrax-letters-are-you-kidding-me/458532/51 "2008-08-02T15:43:11Z")
It seems to me that “I don’t believe in conspiracy theories” is the semantic equivalent to “I don’t believe in _your_ conspiracy theories.” ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2008, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anthrax-letters-are-you-kidding-me/458532/52 "2008-08-02T15:52:27Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] It seems to me that “I don’t believe in conspiracy theories” is the semantic equivalent to “I don’t believe in _your_ conspiracy theories.” [/QUOTE] Well, obviously…those _other_ conspiracy theories are crazy. 😃 Okay, I admit that the term “conspiracy theory” has become a catchall way to dismiss anything we don’t like to hear. But c’mon! There’s a qualitative difference between the whole Bush Administration caused 9/11 theory and the idea that the Bush Administration wanted to attack Iraq and used the tragedy of 9/11 as an opportunity to get that done. ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2008, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anthrax-letters-are-you-kidding-me/458532/53 "2008-08-02T16:48:42Z")
So basically the evidence we’ve seen against this guy so far is that he had a spill 3 months later that he mopped up himself and didn’t report, and that his therapist and brother say he’s nuts? And the evidence that he died of suicide is that he died from an overdose of Tylenol three or four? Oh, well that’s OK then. Case closed. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2008, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anthrax-letters-are-you-kidding-me/458532/54 "2008-08-02T17:48:31Z")
[QUOTE=tomndebb] To be fair to **RTF** , that does look like the sort of plausible deniability that was used in a lot of White House leaks: the official spokes person (Fleischer) makes a public denial that the administration believes that there is any involvement, then “a senior White House official” replants the seed while not speaking for the record. [/QUOTE] As a minor note, if the statement was for publication, it was on the record. This example, however, is “not for attribution” or “background”: Direct quote, public source:“The anthrax was Iraqi,” said Ari Fleischer. Direct quote, anonymous source: “The anthrax was Iraqi,” said a senior White House official. Background, material rephrased: A senior White House official indicated an Iraqi source for the anthrax. All of these statements are on the record. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2008, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anthrax-letters-are-you-kidding-me/458532/55 "2008-08-02T20:23:38Z")
[QUOTE=Oy!] So basically the evidence we’ve seen against this guy so far is that he had a spill 3 months later that he mopped up himself and didn’t report, and that his therapist and brother say he’s nuts? And the evidence that he died of suicide is that he died from an overdose of Tylenol three or four? Oh, well that’s OK then. Case closed. [/QUOTE] Yeah, it would be nce to see some actual…you know…_evidence_. I wonder if they just see this guy as someone they can hang it on because he’s conveniently dead. I have yet to see any direct or evine circumstancial evidence. I hope they aren’t going to close the investigation with no more to this guy than what we’ve heard. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2008, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anthrax-letters-are-you-kidding-me/458532/56 "2008-08-02T21:01:35Z")
Its all very troubling, but the rush to close the case may be nothing more than an attempt to quietly sweep the incompetence under the nearest available rug. One thing genuinely puzzles me: given what they must have known, about his guys psychological issues and clearly borderline state: why did they advise him he was likely to be arrested? And did they, or did they not, inform or imply that he was facing a potential death penalty? Not the same as escorting him to the garden and offering him a revolver with a single bullet, but still… The aroma of dead fish is heavy in the air… ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2008, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anthrax-letters-are-you-kidding-me/458532/57 "2008-08-03T00:28:41Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] The aroma of dead fish is heavy in the air… [/QUOTE] Having just returned from a week on the north shore of lake superior, I can assure you that there is no smell of dead fish up there. The news that there is suddenly a new ‘person of interest’ who died just before they were ready to indict him, so they might have to close the case, reeks to high heaven. After the multi-year Hatfill fiasco, frankly, I don’t believe the feds on this. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2008, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anthrax-letters-are-you-kidding-me/458532/58 "2008-08-03T01:23:37Z")
They recently gave Hatfill about 3 million dollars for their even handed treatment of him. Like Richard Jewell , when they need to claim they have the perpetrator ,they will find one and if he gets destroyed ,so be it. I hope this guy actually did it. It is too soon to know . They have said they will release more info during the week. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2008, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anthrax-letters-are-you-kidding-me/458532/59 "2008-08-03T01:28:18Z")
I think the anthrax was mailed by [Richard Jewell](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Jewell). ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2008, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anthrax-letters-are-you-kidding-me/458532/60 "2008-08-03T04:20:23Z")
I’ve gotta wonder - was Hatfill a Democrat? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anthrax-letters-are-you-kidding-me/458532.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anthrax-letters-are-you-kidding-me/458532.md?page=4)