# Anthrax mailings case solved? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 1, 2008, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anthrax-mailings-case-solved/458476 "2008-08-01T11:27:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![rbroome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/838e76/32.png) [@rbroome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rbroome)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2008, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anthrax-mailings-case-solved/458476/1 "2008-08-01T11:27:00Z")
It appears that the FBI finally identified the person behind the 2001 Anthrax mailings. [http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/08/01/anthrax.suicide.ap/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/08/01/anthrax.suicide.ap/index.html) At least the person who committed suicide raised his “person of interest” level. Anyone else think the case is finally solved? Do you think the FBI did a great job in solving the case or a terrible job in taking 7 years to identify the 1 person out of the 20-30 people in the country who could have done the deed? ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2008, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anthrax-mailings-case-solved/458476/2 "2008-08-01T14:20:15Z")
In regard to the 20 to 30 people in the country who could have done it- could it not also have been done outside the country and onforwarded by a person inside the country? I am not arguing at all- just a suggestion. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2008, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anthrax-mailings-case-solved/458476/3 "2008-08-01T14:50:37Z")
I wouldn’t call it ‘solved’. They suspected this guy, this guy commited suicide. The two events are may not be related or related in the way you think. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2008, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anthrax-mailings-case-solved/458476/4 "2008-08-01T15:02:54Z")
[QUOTE=Cicero] In regard to the 20 to 30 people in the country who could have done it- could it not also have been done outside the country and onforwarded by a person inside the country? I am not arguing at all- just a suggestion. [/QUOTE] I don’t think so. IIRC the anthrax used was a US strain. On searching it seems I recall correctly. > [@](#): > > 'The DNA sequence of the anthrax sent through the US mail in 2001 has been revealed and confirms suspicions that the bacteria originally came from a US military laboratory. The data released uses codenames for the reference strains against which the attack strain was compared. The two reference strains that appear identical to the attack strain most likely originated at the US Army Medical Research Institute for Infectious Diseases at Fort Detrick (USAMRIID), Maryland. The new work also shows that substantial genetic differences can emerge in two samples of an anthrax culture separated for only three years. This means the attacker’s anthrax was not separated from its ancestors at USAMRIID for many generations. [2001 anthrax attacks - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_anthrax_attacks#Anthrax_attack_bug_.22identical.22_to_army_strain_report) ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2008, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anthrax-mailings-case-solved/458476/5 "2008-08-01T15:06:33Z")
[QUOTE=Zebra] I wouldn’t call it ‘solved’. They suspected this guy, this guy commited suicide. The two events are may not be related or related in the way you think. [/QUOTE] The evidence at this point strikes me as pretty overwhelming. > [@](#): > > In the six months following the anthrax mailings, Ivins conducted unauthorized testing for anthrax spores outside containment areas at USAMRIID – the U.S. Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases at Fort Detrick – and found some, according to an internal report by the U.S. Army Medical Research and Materiel Command, which oversees the lab. > > In December 2001, after conducting tests triggered by a technician’s fears that she had been exposed, Ivins found evidence of anthrax and decontaminated the woman’s desk, computer, keypad and monitor, but didn’t notify his superiors, according to the report. ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2008, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anthrax-mailings-case-solved/458476/6 "2008-08-01T15:35:22Z")
[QUOTE=yojimbo] I don’t think so. IIRC the anthrax used was a US strain. On searching it seems I recall correctly. [2001 anthrax attacks - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_anthrax_attacks#Anthrax_attack_bug_.22identical.22_to_army_strain_report) [/QUOTE] Thanks Yojimbo. I never realised that the strains could be identified (which reflects on the lack of research I did). ---
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2008, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anthrax-mailings-case-solved/458476/7 "2008-08-01T15:44:25Z")
Given the fact that he was was unauthorized to goof around with the stuff outside of containment and he did, and he accidentally contaminated someone, you can conclude he was a complete idiot. Okay, maybe an anthrax genius, but when it came to security, an idiot. But is it possible that someone else just took advantage of his idiocy to sneak some samples out? It just seems beyond stupid to think: “Hey, I have this totally unique thing that could only ever be traced back to my office, and now I’m going to do really bad stuff with it. They’ll never catch me!” I’d say at the very least, he is responsible (either directly or indirectly) for the material getting out of the lab, but I wouldn’t say that you can conclude he committed the mail crimes. ---
**Author:** ![CaveMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cavemike/32/16379_2.png) [@CaveMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaveMike)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2008, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anthrax-mailings-case-solved/458476/8 "2008-08-01T15:50:46Z")
[This](http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/wire/ats-ap-anthrax-scientistaug01,1,2948459.story) La Times article has some unique info as well. [QUOTE=Swallowed My Cellphone] Given the fact that he was was unauthorized to goof around with the stuff outside of containment and he did, and he accidentally contaminated someone, you can conclude he was a complete idiot. Okay, maybe an anthrax genius, but when it came to security, an idiot. But is it possible that someone else just took advantage of his idiocy to sneak some samples out? [/QUOTE] Wiki has a pretty good article on the [Amerithrax](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amerithrax) case as it is called. It sounds like Fort Detrick was a bit of a zoo. Scientists working on authorized projects, letting each other in the lab without using keycards, and harassing fellow scientists. It may be that his idiotic behavior was par for the course there. ---
**Author:** ![CaveMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cavemike/32/16379_2.png) [@CaveMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaveMike)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2008, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anthrax-mailings-case-solved/458476/9 "2008-08-01T15:55:23Z")
[QUOTE=Zebra] I wouldn’t call it ‘solved’. They suspected this guy, this guy commited suicide. The two events are may not be related or related in the way you think. [/QUOTE] I wouldn’t call it solved either, but the FBI considered him more than just a suspect. They intended to file criminal charges against him. That is a lot further along than just declaring him a person of interest like they did with Hatfill. And considering they just agreed to pay Hatfill $4.6M, I would hope that they felt pretty confident about Ivins. ---
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2008, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anthrax-mailings-case-solved/458476/10 "2008-08-01T16:02:24Z")
Question: Do we know what the charges were going to be? (I don’t remember reading them) ---
**Author:** ![CaveMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cavemike/32/16379_2.png) [@CaveMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaveMike)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2008, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anthrax-mailings-case-solved/458476/11 "2008-08-01T16:08:20Z")
[QUOTE=Swallowed My Cellphone] Question: Do we know what the charges were going to be? (I don’t remember reading them) [/QUOTE] Good question. The [Washington Times](http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/aug/01/official-us-wanted-death-penalty-in-anthrax-case/) reports: > [@](#): > > Federal prosecutors investigating the 2001 anthrax attacks were planning to indict and seek the death penalty against a top Army microbiologist who was developing a vaccine against the deadly toxin. The scientist apparently committed suicide this week. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2008, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anthrax-mailings-case-solved/458476/12 "2008-08-01T16:31:40Z")
[QUOTE=yojimbo] I don’t think so. IIRC the anthrax used was a US strain. On searching it seems I recall correctly. [2001 anthrax attacks - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_anthrax_attacks#Anthrax_attack_bug_.22identical.22_to_army_strain_report) [/QUOTE] I thought it was later found to be similar but not identical. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2008, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anthrax-mailings-case-solved/458476/13 "2008-08-01T16:39:56Z")
Absent a note, and absent the evidence that hasn’t made it into the public domain yet, I’m going to tentatively consider this a confession by suicide. I hope it is, 'cause I bet they close the case now, and I’d like it if the real sender is not still out there somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2008, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anthrax-mailings-case-solved/458476/14 "2008-08-01T16:40:45Z")
He was from _Lebanon_, wasn’t he? (Sorry.) ---
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2008, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anthrax-mailings-case-solved/458476/15 "2008-08-01T16:47:04Z")
[QUOTE=Frank] Absent a note, and absent the evidence that hasn’t made it into the public domain yet, I’m going to tentatively consider this a confession by suicide. I hope it is, 'cause I bet they close the case now, and I’d like it if the real sender is not still out there somewhere. [/QUOTE] I hope that’s the case and the recently deceased was simply not an accessory whose crime was procuring the Anthrax. I would assume that he’d be considered a co-conspirator if that was the case, warranting the death penalty, particularly if he was supposed to be working with the FBI and was instead covering tracks like crazy. I’m hoping the cops will make a formal statement that the evidence was rock solid he was the culprit. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2008, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anthrax-mailings-case-solved/458476/16 "2008-08-01T16:49:38Z")
I heard on the news that Ivins was one of the experts that the FBI asked to help them with the case. No wonder it took them 7 years to solve it. That would be like the detectives on _CSI: New York_ realizing that one of their own lab technicians was the criminal. ---
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2008, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anthrax-mailings-case-solved/458476/17 "2008-08-01T17:34:44Z")
[QUOTE=Diceman] I heard on the news that Ivins was one of the experts that the FBI asked to help them with the case. No wonder it took them 7 years to solve it. That would be like the detectives on _CSI: New York_ realizing that one of their own lab technicians was the criminal. [/QUOTE] Oh, I saw that episode on another show! ---
**Author:** ![vetbridge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b5e925/32.png) [@vetbridge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vetbridge)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2008, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anthrax-mailings-case-solved/458476/18 "2008-08-01T17:47:19Z")
so. . .who did the Tylenol? ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2008, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anthrax-mailings-case-solved/458476/19 "2008-08-01T18:16:45Z")
[QUOTE=vetbridge] so. . .who did the Tylenol? [/QUOTE] Wasn’t that a husband who did it to kill his wife & contaminated other bottles to make it look like a random thing? ---
**Author:** ![CaveMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cavemike/32/16379_2.png) [@CaveMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaveMike)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2008, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anthrax-mailings-case-solved/458476/20 "2008-08-01T18:25:06Z")
[QUOTE=FriarTed] Wasn’t that a husband who did it to kill his wife & contaminated other bottles to make it look like a random thing? [/QUOTE] According to wiki it is still [unsolved](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tylenol_murders). [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anthrax-mailings-case-solved/458476.md?page=2)