# ANTI-adoption lobby??? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 11, 2004, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-adoption-lobby/228563 "2004-02-11T01:12:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Palo\_Verde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Palo\_Verde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palo_Verde)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2004, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-adoption-lobby/228563/1 "2004-02-11T01:12:49Z")
There are so many things in life one can legitimately be against. One may not agree with all the positions, be people of good faith can be against war, terrorism, abortion, the death penalty, raising taxes, or a million other things. The list of things almost everyone agrees on is small. Pretty much everyone agrees that these things are good: chocolate, puppies, adopting abused children… What’s that??? There are people who are _against_ adoption?!? How about [the anti-adoption web site](http://www.geocities.com/antiadoption/) or the Canadian version You can even order such catchy bumper stickers that say things like: “Choosing” Adoption is like “Choosing” Rape Adoption From Foster Care Doesn’t Make it Right Adoption Does Not Cure Infertility Adoption Destroys a Family to Create a Lie Adoption is Child Abuse So what is their beef with adoption? Like so many issues, it seems to be rooted in a mentality of “I had a bad experience, so this must be bad for all people.” Let me give a direct quote from the website: > [@](#): > > By promoting adoption, Hallmark might as well be promoting child abuse. When a child is adopted, he is automatically at risk for a myriad of psychological problems, as are his true parents. To suggest that anyone can use this abusive industry to “create a family” is a destructive lie. Adoption creates nothing more and nothing less than a legacy of pain for the children who have been taken from their parents and the families that love them. The fact of the matter is, children need the families that nature has given them in order to thrive. To suggest anything else is dishonest. The amazing thing is that there actually seem to be a (very small) movement that wants to outlaw adoption. Yes, even through CPS, even if the child was abused. My summary: y’all are nuts. ---
**Author:** ![Palo\_Verde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Palo\_Verde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palo_Verde)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2004, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-adoption-lobby/228563/2 "2004-02-11T01:21:27Z")
D’OH!!! Make that ANTI-adoption in the title! (that’s what I get for typing with a baby on my lap) Could a kind Mod please change it? ---
**Author:** ![Jayn\_Newell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Jayn\_Newell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jayn_Newell)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2004, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-adoption-lobby/228563/3 "2004-02-11T01:34:38Z")
_blink_ _blinkblink_ _closes jaw_ I have never heard of this before. I think they have their hearts in the right place, wanting to preserve respect for family structure and the birth family, but I also feel that they are twisting things a bit (or maybe a lot) to suit their own ends. The fact that one of those sites is hosted on geocities does not spark much confidence. From what I can tell (being a mostly uniformed college student who knows little about adoption), they do have some good points. > [@](#): > > I am Sylvie, I am 46, and I have five grown children. The first one was taken from me in 1974 and was adopted out. Next I will write about my perceptions, my trauma, my pain and my joy. From what I can tell (being a mostly uniformed college student who knows little about adoption), they do have some good points. On the other hand, i ran across this example of a girl being coerced into giving up her child. Yes that happened, and from what I understand, it happened a lot. But this was thirty years ago, when a single teenage mother was one of the banes of society (once again, from the point of view of a mostly uniformed college student). Times do and have changed. I think they’re forgetting about children who have been taken out of abusive homes, or otherwise unhealthy living arrangements. Wouldn’t they be better off with family that /wants/ to take care of them? Sure, maybe some of these children have psycological issues, but I doubt that’s from being adopted. Once again, their hearts are in the right place, and while I don’t agree with what they’re trying to accomplish, I respect that they’re trying to help people in their own way. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2004, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-adoption-lobby/228563/4 "2004-02-11T01:45:51Z")
Oh yeah. I’ve met adoptees (as an adults) who claim they would have rather been aborted if their mothers didn’t want them. People who are lobbying to stop international adoption - deciding that orphanages in their birth countries would have been better than having been pulled out of and lost their birth culture. (Adoption does not cure infertility. It cures childlessness. There is a very big difference and people who adopt to cure infertility are usually not well suited for adoption). ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2004, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-adoption-lobby/228563/5 "2004-02-11T02:54:45Z")
It is perhaps a bit unusual to hear someone come out so explicitly against adoption, but there is a strong anti-adoption sentiment in this country. At the high school I teach at, I dare say at least 5% of our female students are either pregnant or mothers-- of the 100 or so girls I have had on my roll for some period of time this year, ten have been pregnant or mothers (or both) and there are probably at least a few that have never mentioned to me that they have a baby. Of all of those, I’ve known ONE who gave her baby up for adoption and she faced serious shock and dersion from her classmates, from some of the staff here at the school, which distressed me greatly, and from her own family–the poor girl’s mother was calling her up from PRISON to say “if you have to give that baby up, you’d best let me adopt her!” I can’t speak for the whole country, of course, but the school I teach in adoption is a taboo, scary, shameful thing–something that is never publically discussed–whereas being pregnant is a subject for casual gossip, and the default assumption is that you are keeping the baby. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2004, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-adoption-lobby/228563/6 "2004-02-11T03:41:56Z")
> [@autz](#): > > D’OH!!! > > Make that ANTI-adoption in the title! > > (that’s what I get for typing with a baby on my lap) > > Could a kind Mod please change it? As you wish. ---
**Author:** ![DeaganTheWolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/49beb7/32.png) [@DeaganTheWolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeaganTheWolf)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2004, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-adoption-lobby/228563/7 "2004-02-11T03:56:18Z")
Wow. WHAT THE BLUE-ASSED BABOON BLOODY RECTAL FUCKING HELL!!! I was adopted. I was adopted as an infant at 2 months of age. During the interim from birth to two months, I was cared for by a children’s home, (not a foster center). I was given up for adoption because my birth parents were young, and unable to give me the care that I deserved. Giving me up was an ultimate display of LOVE and AFFECTION on the part of my birth parents. I was born when they were 19 and 18 respectively. Well above the age of legality, and they had every right, and I’m sure, pressure to keep me. Instead they loved me enough to NOT abort me, and to give me to my parents who were unable to have children, and were able to provide an eviroment that would grant me everything they thought a child deserved. I was treated with nothing but love, and affection from my parents. They are the most wonderful, and aggravating :rolleyes: people in the world, and I wouldn’t trade them for another set for anything. I don’t resent my Birth parents’ decision to adopt me out, nor was I EVER abused by my parents. YE GODS, they wouldn’t ever even THINK of abusing me. I was told often that I’m the most prescious gift that they could have recieved since they could not have children of their own. I’m free from any psychological disorders, and I’ve NEVER wanted to look for my Birth parents. These people are sick in the head. Fuckers. ---
**Author:** ![Coulbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Coulbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coulbean)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2004, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-adoption-lobby/228563/8 "2004-02-11T04:13:25Z")
Did you see the “Family Assistance” section? They make it out like the only two options in an unwanted pregnancy are to keep or adopt out the baby… hmm… not that I’m all for or all against abortion or anything, but shouldn’t they at least mention that? If you’re counseling someone on their options, ALL options should be considered. Personally, I feel that adoption is a better option than abortion. (not to get into that debate) So you can’t just\* ignore \* that! It just seems like there’s more than one gaping hole in their philosophy. Also: > [@](#): > > Being young or unmarried or poor will not make you a bad parent But being older, married, rich, and prepared won’t hurt. ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2004, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-adoption-lobby/228563/9 "2004-02-11T05:20:25Z")
I actually overheard the following conversation recently: “I think people should just abortions instead of adopting.” “Aren’t you a Christian?” “Well, yeah, but the babies could go right to heaven instead of knowing that they weren’t wanted and abandoned by their parents.” Can’t argue with logic like that. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Long\_Road](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b5a626/32.png) [@The\_Long\_Road](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Long_Road)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2004, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-adoption-lobby/228563/10 "2004-02-11T05:30:06Z")
> [@pepperlandgirl](#): > > I actually overheard the following conversation recently: > > “I think people should just abortions instead of adopting.” > “Aren’t you a Christian?” > “Well, yeah, but the babies could go right to heaven instead of knowing that they weren’t wanted and abandoned by their parents.” > > Can’t argue with logic like that. I know someone who could. While suffering in a Christian high school for a year, one of my classmates gave us all the lowdown on aborted babies. Since the babies never accepted Jesus as their savior, they go to hell. Stupid little heathen babies!! ---
**Author:** ![kung\_fu\_lola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f4b2a3/32.png) [@kung\_fu\_lola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kung_fu_lola)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2004, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-adoption-lobby/228563/11 "2004-02-11T05:59:44Z")
On a television show in Canada, called _Focus on the Koran_, or something like that, I once saw the host, a scholar of Islam, decry adoption because it “denies the natural parents’ rights.” I also had a discussion with a cow-orker in Ottawa who was engaged to a Muslim, and she told me that one sticking point between them was that she wanted to adopt, but his religious faith meant that he didn’t “believe in it”. This led me to believe that Islam forbade adoption. But, upon writing this post, Google showed me the truth (since I rarely shoot my mouth off with nothing to back it up). Upon reading [this](http://islam.about.com/cs/parenting/a/adoption.htm), I realized what it is: because of the rules about adopting a child, it is forbidden for Muslims to participate in closed adoptions. [This](http://www.iica.org/invitation/adoption.html) link explains it in terms of Shari’ah. So there _are_ some respected arguments against closed, legal adoption. ---
**Author:** ![Flutterby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Flutterby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flutterby)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2004, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-adoption-lobby/228563/12 "2004-02-11T06:12:41Z")
kung fu lola: Then they would agree with open adoption? That’s what I got from that… They have open adoption here in Alberta (unless you go with the Mormon’s) where the parents stay in contact with the child and the family they are with. My friend gave her daughter up for adoption 2 years ago this July and still sees her around 3 times a month, has pictures, talks to the family etc. ---
**Author:** ![kung\_fu\_lola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f4b2a3/32.png) [@kung\_fu\_lola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kung_fu_lola)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2004, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-adoption-lobby/228563/13 "2004-02-11T06:27:08Z")
Yes they do, but the point is that the popularity of open adoption is a fairly new phenomenon. My impression was that until recently, closed adoptions were the norm (in cases where it wasn’t a fmily member adopting), which would have made it impossible for Muslims who follow Shari’ah, but live in Western countries, to adopt. Also, what about adopting children out of foster care? Are those commonly open adoptions? I don’t see how they could be, if the children are in foster care because CAS removed them from their (presumably unwilling) parents. Therefore, it would follow that Muslims are forbidden from adopting the kinds of children who are featured in “Today’s kids” sections of newspapers and suchlike (If there is a significant number of open adoptions of kids in foster care, I’m not aware of it, but I’d love to be corrected. This is a subject on which I’ve done some reading, but I haven’t kept current and I’m by no means an expert). ---
**Author:** ![Jenaroph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Jenaroph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenaroph)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2004, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-adoption-lobby/228563/14 "2004-02-11T06:49:29Z")
> [@The Long Road](#): > > > [@pepperlandgirl](#): > > > > I actually overheard the following conversation recently: > > > > “I think people should just abortions instead of adopting.” > > “Aren’t you a Christian?” > > “Well, yeah, but the babies could go right to heaven instead of knowing that they weren’t wanted and abandoned by their parents.” > > > > Can’t argue with logic like that. > > I know someone who could. While suffering in a Christian high school for a year, one of my classmates gave us all the lowdown on aborted babies. Since the babies never accepted Jesus as their savior, they go to hell. Stupid little heathen babies!! Maybe if you put these two together in a sealed container they’d annihilate. ---
**Author:** ![Flutterby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Flutterby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flutterby)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2004, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-adoption-lobby/228563/15 "2004-02-11T06:51:06Z")
I don’t know about foster care kids… I haven’t really had experience with the adoption process beyond looking into that option when I was pregnant with my son (I decided to keep him) and what my friend has told me about her child’s adoption. ---
**Author:** ![racinchikki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eada6e/32.png) [@racinchikki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racinchikki)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2004, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-adoption-lobby/228563/16 "2004-02-11T07:21:25Z")
Re: Foster children being adopted: My family does foster care for the state of New York. They have never yet been given care of a child who did NOT still get visitation with his or her biological parents, REGARDLESS of the reason the child was removed; we’ve had kids come through who were taken out of parental custody for being raped at the age of 1, and since the dad wasn’t in prison - apparently there wasn’t enough evidence to get a criminal conviction - the kids had to go back and stay overnight at their parents’ house once a month. We tried to adopt them, but the parents’ rights were never terminated. We’re trying to adopt my current foster brother, but under the rules of the foster care agency my parents are registered with, it would HAVE to be an open adoption or there wouldn’t be an adoption at all. ---
**Author:** ![kung\_fu\_lola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f4b2a3/32.png) [@kung\_fu\_lola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kung_fu_lola)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2004, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-adoption-lobby/228563/17 "2004-02-11T07:39:47Z")
With apologies to the OP, my hijack ends [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=4534650#post4534650). ---
**Author:** ![Cerri](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3bc359/32.png) [@Cerri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cerri)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2004, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-adoption-lobby/228563/18 "2004-02-11T11:22:24Z")
_sigh_ Sometimes I just wish I could secede from humanity altogether… ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2004, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-adoption-lobby/228563/19 "2004-02-11T13:44:58Z")
I did no more than glance thru the website link, but does it smell like parody to anyone else? Lots of the language is reminiscent of anti-abortion websites. Of course, a good deal of my feeling is based on the assumption that nobody is dumb enough to be against adoption. I don’t know, maybe I have been whooshed. Of course, many, many other times I have said “Nobody is dumb enough to be against X”, and it turned out that somebody **was** , so maybe I am naive. The only reactions I have ever gotten against adoption (both the junior **Shodan** -ettes are adopted) was based on racism and other forms of stupidity, never anything against the idea of adoption in general. _shrugs_ If these folks are serious, they’re acting like idiots. If they’re not serious, they still are. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![zut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zut/32/2875_2.png) [@zut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zut)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2004, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-adoption-lobby/228563/20 "2004-02-11T13:59:05Z")
Well, I did a reverse lookup on their toll-free telephone number, and it’s registered to Adoption Legalized Lies of Martinville NJ. That isn’t conclusive, but establishing a real toll-free number seems like a lot of effort to go through for a hoax. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-adoption-lobby/228563.md?page=2)