# ANTI-adoption lobby??? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 11, 2004, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-adoption-lobby/228563 "2004-02-11T01:12:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![cuauhtemoc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecb155/32.png) [@cuauhtemoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cuauhtemoc)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2004, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-adoption-lobby/228563/21 "2004-02-11T14:23:12Z")
Hmm. This is not a very big state. I wonder why I’ve never heard of [Martinville, NJ](http://maps.yahoo.com/maps_result?ed=M7tNO.p_0TqT&csz=Martinville%2C+NJ&country=us). ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2004, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-adoption-lobby/228563/22 "2004-02-11T14:23:28Z")
> [@Obsidian Flutterby](#): > > kung fu lola: Then they would agree with open adoption? That’s what I got from that… > > They have open adoption here in Alberta (unless you go with the Mormon’s) where the parents stay in contact with the child and the family they are with. My friend gave her daughter up for adoption 2 years ago this July and still sees her around 3 times a month, has pictures, talks to the family etc. I ws adopted, and it was a rotten experience precisely because it wasn’t an open adoption. It was a nasty surprise to find out at 14, let me tell you. I’m all for open adoptions. ---
**Author:** ![whiterabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/cab0a1/32.png) [@whiterabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whiterabbit)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2004, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-adoption-lobby/228563/23 "2004-02-11T14:35:49Z")
If I have kids, this is the way I’ll have them, thanks to some medical issues. These people, if they’re real, can bite me. Heck, if I do end up in a situation where I could adopt, I even want an older kid or two, which is fairly uncommon. They need families too. I’m okay with open adoption, but I must say that I find it odd to think that somebody who gave their baby up for adoption is seeing them three times a month. I can understand staying in touch, but that often? I don’t think I’d be comfortable with it. Whatever works for your sister and the kid’s family, however – I just don’t think I could do that. ---
**Author:** ![KozGuitar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/87869e/32.png) [@KozGuitar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KozGuitar)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2004, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-adoption-lobby/228563/24 "2004-02-11T15:49:25Z")
Posting for the first time in years! > [@cuauhtemoc](#): > > Hmm. This is not a very big state. I wonder why I’ve never heard of [Martinville, NJ](http://maps.yahoo.com/maps_result?ed=M7tNO.p_0TqT&csz=Martinville%2C+NJ&country=us). [Martinsville](http://maps.yahoo.com/maps_result?ed=M7tNO.p_0TqT&csz=martinsville%2C+nj&country=us) is a section of Bridgewater, NJ but has it’s own ZIP code. Oh…and on topic…f’n idiots! Back to lurking… ---
**Author:** ![The\_Mad\_Hermit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b5ac83/32.png) [@The\_Mad\_Hermit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Mad_Hermit)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2004, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-adoption-lobby/228563/25 "2004-02-11T16:04:55Z")
Ban adoption, and the children unlucky enough to lose their parents to some tragedy are screwed. They wold be condemned to a childhood spent in institutions, without any chance of a normal family life. This may be another backhanded blow at gay marriage as well. ---
**Author:** ![Palo\_Verde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Palo\_Verde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palo_Verde)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2004, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-adoption-lobby/228563/26 "2004-02-11T16:11:09Z")
Not a parody… unfortunately. I found this site because a poster on another board had this in her sig: Adoption is for pets, not people. I was curious and Googled it and found this site. I was amazed and did a bunch of research and it’s for real. And whoever said their hearts are in the right place… I totally disagree. They may be coming from a situation in which someone was forced to put a child up for adoption against their will. That is terrible and tragic. So lobby for adoption law _reform_, not abolition. Change whatever law to mke sure the interests of the birth parents are respected. Be sure the children involved have the best chance of being adopted by a loving family. But making adoption **illegal**??? That’s nuts. They say if the birth families were supported enough, then they wouldn’t need to put the children up for adoption. But there are going to be stupid, abusive parents no matter how much support they get. And those children should be **adopted** by loving families. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2004, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-adoption-lobby/228563/27 "2004-02-11T16:16:44Z")
> [@Elenia25](#): > > I ws adopted, and it was a rotten experience precisely because it wasn’t an open adoption. It was a nasty surprise to find out at 14, let me tell you. I’m all for open adoptions. OK, I’m curious, why? Were your adopive parents mean to you? Did they make you stay home and clean while your step sisters went to the ball? What exactly constituted the “nasty suprise”? ---
**Author:** ![Elenfair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/cc9497/32.png) [@Elenfair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elenfair)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2004, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-adoption-lobby/228563/28 "2004-02-11T16:38:57Z")
Yes, these people ARE for real. Interestingly, they’re not alone - they form a large network of groups who are trying to fight for the right of birth mothers who were cohearsed into giving up their babies for adoption. Most of these organisations are made up of women who gave up their children in the 60s and 70s - put in “homes” for unwed moms and basically forced to give up their child. I’m not sure why they’re fighting to stop adoption - I don’t think that’s the right way to get the attention their cause truly DOES deserve. There were many young women who were rejected by their families, put in these homes, and forced to give up their babies for the sake of the adoption “market”. There was a famous case of such a home in Canada - the name of it escapes me now - and was featured in a made-for-tv movie not so long ago. There are injustices out there - birth moms who change their minds and end up unable to get their child back, who were promised open adoption but ended up without being involved in the child’s life… So, for that, I can understand why people are banding together. Again - I’m not sure the right approach is to seek a ban on adoption… ---
**Author:** ![MissTake](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/misstake/32/3189_2.png) [@MissTake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MissTake)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2004, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-adoption-lobby/228563/29 "2004-02-11T16:40:53Z")
I wonder what my life would’ve been like if I _hadn’t_ been adopted. My birth parents were adults at the time (BM 21, BF in his 40’s), but I didn’t fit into the scheme of BM’s life, and that’s okay. I have the best parents in the universe and feel that in whatever way I may be screwed up, it is not caused by being adopted. I work in an agency that deals with CPS and foster care quite frequently. There are some situations where bio parents are not allowed contact with their children. Usually it is during a Termination of Parental Rights, court ordered. Close friends of our family adopted three wonderful children through our county foster care agency. The horrors these children have lived through would make you weep. They now have a stable, loving, close family. However they may be fucked up was caused by their bio parents and the system. In the system, they had minimal therapy. Now they are working through their personal hell histories–with a mom and dad standing beside them the whole time. Causes like what’s noted in the OP make me sick. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2004, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-adoption-lobby/228563/30 "2004-02-11T18:02:43Z")
OK, then I was wrong and these people are for real. Insert a random post here containing frequent references like “short-sighted”, “imbecilic”, “cretinous”, and a childish over-dependence on obscenity. I feel as I did when I got the letter from the neo-Nazi (the late, unlamented **Elroy Stock** ) condemning us as “race-mixers” for adopting my children. I wonder why people are so insistent on making a public issue of the fact that their IQ is less than their age. Ah well. > [@Albert Einstein](#): > > There are two things that are infinite - the universe, and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![cuauhtemoc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecb155/32.png) [@cuauhtemoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cuauhtemoc)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2004, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-adoption-lobby/228563/31 "2004-02-11T18:57:44Z")
> [@KozGuitar](#): > > [Martinsville](http://maps.yahoo.com/maps_result?ed=M7tNO.p_0TqT&csz=martinsville%2C+nj&country=us) is a section of Bridgewater, NJ but has it’s own ZIP code. Ah, _Martinsville_. Oh well, can’t blame me for being suspicious. ---
**Author:** ![diku](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4af34b/32.png) [@diku](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/diku)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2004, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-adoption-lobby/228563/32 "2004-02-11T21:15:20Z")
I can’t even imagine what my life would’ve been like had I not been adopted. I know nothing of my birth parents, except that they were young(and short, apparently). I don’t really want to know anything else. That said, this is really nuts. I know lots of people that were born to unprepared parents, that would’ve been 100 times better off being adopted. Sigh. ---
**Author:** ![whiterabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/cab0a1/32.png) [@whiterabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whiterabbit)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2004, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-adoption-lobby/228563/33 "2004-02-11T21:39:26Z")
Um…people don’t send their unwed daughters off to homes where their babies are taken away from them THESE days, I don’t think. That’s an awful thing to do, but it’s not like that anymore, is it??? ---
**Author:** ![Elenfair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/cc9497/32.png) [@Elenfair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elenfair)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2004, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-adoption-lobby/228563/34 "2004-02-11T22:33:14Z")
> [@whiterabbit](#): > > Um…people don’t send their unwed daughters off to homes where their babies are taken away from them THESE days, I don’t think. That’s an awful thing to do, but it’s not like that anymore, is it??? Actually, there are are still “homes” for the job, but there are also some pretty unscrupulous social workers and adoption agency workers out there… along with parents and families of these unwed, mainly teenaged girls. I know this first hand, for I worked with some of them (troubled teens - oh the things you see when you do therapy work, the things you see…) These teenaged girls (this was in 1998-2000) were put through therapy sessions where it was drilled in their head that the “right thing to do”, the “unselfish thing to do” as to not “ruin their lives” was to give up their babies once they were born. A number of them didn’t want to, but were convinced by the social workers and agency workers… No other options were discussed - no mention of social programs, of help, of anything other than “you should give the gift of a child to a couple who really wants one.” Yeah, these were babies having babies - the problem was that they seriously regretted their decision, on a number of occasions, and had no means of making the situation better. I even worked with a girl who was in total emotional distress because her MOTHER had faked her signature on the relinquishment papers. These relinquish & surrender papers actually legally mean the mother “abandoned” the child. In many cases, that simply wasn’t true. I’ve seen one social worker push for a young girl to sign the papers only a few hours after delivery, when the girl was still quite nicely high on painkillers. I’m not saying that their children aren’t in a “better place” now. I am saying, however, that I have serious issues with the way many agencies are run. Some are in it for the money - they’re “selling” mainly white infants of teenaged mothers to middle and upper middle class people, and making a handsome profit. The industry was, in 1999, considered to rake in a 1.4 billion dollar market in the US alone. It was estimated to grow at a rate of 11.5% to 2004. (Marketdata Enterprises, Tempa FL - analysis of Fertility Clinics and Adoption Services) Now. I have great respect for the people who adopt needy children, or any children, really. What I’m concerned about is the misunderstood birth-moms (or firstmoms, or whatever) who sometimes did NOT willingly relinquish their child. Coersion is still going strong. I’ve seen it first hand, in Canada, where the demand for white infants for adoption is strong and kicking… I don’t agree with the way this group is going about it - banning adoption isn’t the right way to go. There are many orphaned children who need homes. Many foster care kids who need homes too. However, there’s a growing “market” for newborn white babies that some agencies are really milking for all it is worth - often by holding out a pseudo-helping hand to pregnant teens. Some are pushing so hard for changes to the time a birth mother has to change her mind it’s scary. In some places, they’re aiming to change from 90 days to 48 hours. 48 hours. Shit. That’s less time it would take us to decide whether or not to buy a house… _note: I am not and have never been an adoptive parent, an adoptee, or a birth mother._ ---
**Author:** ![Jayn\_Newell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Jayn\_Newell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jayn_Newell)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2004, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-adoption-lobby/228563/35 "2004-02-11T22:42:06Z")
> [@autz](#): > > And whoever said their hearts are in the right place… I totally disagree. > > They may be coming from a situation in which someone was forced to put a child up for adoption against their will. That is terrible and tragic. So lobby for adoption law _reform_, not abolition. Change whatever law to mke sure the interests of the birth parents are respected. Be sure the children involved have the best chance of being adopted by a loving family. But making adoption **illegal**??? That’s nuts. I said their hearts are in the right place, not their brains. I don’t agree with what they’re trying to do. I absolutely believe in adoption, as it gives certain children a better life than they would have had with their natural families, and gives those who lost their parents a home that they wouldn’t have otherwise. You’re right, it’s nuts. But I’m not about to start bitching about them just because they see things differently than I do, which is what I was trying to say. ---
**Author:** ![whiterabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/cab0a1/32.png) [@whiterabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whiterabbit)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2004, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-adoption-lobby/228563/36 "2004-02-11T23:16:23Z")
I won’t quote that whole post, **Elenfair** , because my entire response is pretty much :eek: ! I only wish I was completely surprised. It reminds me a bit of the pet market; people want cute cuddly purebred puppies and kittens, so they end up getting them from questionable people. Arrrgh. (No, I am NOT directly comparing babies to puppies. Though babies, of whatever species, are damn cute.) I only hope that the situations you mention are much more the exception than the rule. I was quite serious saying I’d want an older kid, issues or no issues. Color doesn’t matter, though I might need a few lessons on how to deal with hair if I adopted a black kid. I don’t WANT to deal with a baby; I like babies, but I don’t want my own. This won’t happen until I am in good situation to take care of a child, which may or may not happen, because I don’t want to be a single mother. I want somebody to share the burden – um, joys of parenthood 🙂 – with, and there’s nobody in the picture right now. ---
**Author:** ![Elenfair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/cc9497/32.png) [@Elenfair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elenfair)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2004, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-adoption-lobby/228563/37 "2004-02-11T23:25:02Z")
Interestingly, whiterabbit, it’s more common than we’d like to believe. An easy way to illustrate that is to look at the closing of access to the registries… initially, this was done supposedly to protect birthmothers’ identities. Turns out that the groups who are lobbying for opening up these registries ARE the birthmothers. It was likely more of a way to “protect” the adopting families from contact by the birth parents, to give the children a life without the birth parent’s involvement. Just take a look at so-called open adoption. Sure, it’s a contract, but when the parental rights are given to the adopting family, THEY have the say as to whom their child sees. EVEN if there’s a contract out for an Open adoption. The families can pay a fine for going back on their word, but there is nothing that forces them to keep up their end of the bargain. And many do not. Many birthmoms I know want to find out what happened to their infants. Many adoptees don’t want anything to do with their birthparents - they don’t know anything about them, and don’t really want to (I don’t blame them at all - I mean, these are strangers, and the adoptive parents are their mom and dad!)… Many adoptees want to confront their birthparents to find out why they were “given up”… and many birthmoms don’t want to be involved (i.e. they adopted out because they really WANTED to…) So. It’s a tricky situation at best. There’s a lot of crap going on in this “industry” - a lot of good people who want to do the right thing… birth moms, adoptive parents… and a lot of people who are out there to make money. They’re the weasels I have no respect for. None at all. They’re the baby brokers who will do anything to “make a sale”. Uuuugh. ---
**Author:** ![Flutterby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Flutterby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flutterby)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2004, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-adoption-lobby/228563/38 "2004-02-12T00:13:00Z")
_Elenia25_: I’m curious as to why it was a rotten experience too. Was it because you had no clue until you were 14? Or for some other reason? > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by whiterabbit_ > I’m okay with open adoption, but I must say that I find it odd to think that somebody who gave their baby up for adoption is seeing them three times a month. I can understand staying in touch, but that often? I don’t think I’d be comfortable with it. Whatever works for your sister and the kid’s family, however – > I just don’t think I could do that. Friend, not sister. She told me she sees her daughter _up to_ 3 times a month. So not 3 times a month all the time. I guess they are all comfy with each other and it works for them. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Elenfair_ > There was a famous case of such a home in Canada - the name of it escapes me now - and was featured in a made-for-tv movie not so long ago. That was [Butterbox Babies](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0122418/). I had to go looking, all I remembered was Butter and Babies. I never saw that one though, it came out when my Mom was still saying what we would watch and my brother monopolized the tv. I can say that what little experience I had looking into adoption, I wasn’t pressured from any front other than my RC family who I think are scandalized more by the fact that I, as a single woman, would actually _choose_ to raise my child on my own rather than give him to a two parent home. The are settling in on my decision, but it was rough going sticking to my guns for a bit. ---
**Author:** ![whiterabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/cab0a1/32.png) [@whiterabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whiterabbit)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2004, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-adoption-lobby/228563/39 "2004-02-12T00:34:37Z")
Friend, not sister. Oops. I must have misread or something. Anyway, I’m not saying that’s a BAD situation – obviously, it’s working for the people involved. I’d be a bit disturbed if my child’s birth mother wanted quite THAT much contact, though I wouldn’t tell her to go away and never come back. Occasional letters and pictures, maybe seeing each other a couple times a year, sure. But every family situation is different. Maybe part of the reason I feel that way is that if I had to give up a child, I don’t think I COULD see them often, though I’d want to know they were doing well. It’d rip my heart right out every time I had to leave said child again. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Flutterby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Flutterby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flutterby)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2004, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-adoption-lobby/228563/40 "2004-02-12T00:49:52Z")
Didn’t think you thought of it as a bad situation, though I can see that being weird. I agree, if I had given Caterpie up for adoption I wouldn’t want that much contact. It would hurt me lots to leave him each time too. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-adoption-lobby/228563.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-adoption-lobby/228563.md?page=3)