# Anti Catholic opinion warrants official warning? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 9, 2008, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-catholic-opinion-warrants-official-warning/436952 "2008-02-09T20:18:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2008, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-catholic-opinion-warrants-official-warning/436952/101 "2008-02-11T16:44:50Z")
Thank you, **Sarahfeena**. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2008, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-catholic-opinion-warrants-official-warning/436952/102 "2008-02-11T16:45:31Z")
> [@](#): > > **Colibri** said: > He didn’t insult an “anonymous group of people;” since several people in the thread had already stated that they received ashes, by implication he was calling them idiots. And yet no warnings are given out when someone trots out the term ‘gun nuts’ or starts claiming that people who own guns are compensating for tiny penises when a thread about firearms and gun control comes up - even when people who have posted to the thread identify themselves as gun owners. That’s been considered acceptable because they didn’t insult one person directly, they just happened to insult a group to which that person belongs. Why is religion different? > [@](#): > > **brownie55** said: > Now, tell me how the OP didn’t insult a large group of people in an acceptable way. I would like to know this also, particularly with respect to the above treatment regarding the comments that have been made about gun owners in non-pit threads. > [@](#): > > **Ellen Cherry** said: > have never once in all my nearly nine years at Straight Dope told another poster that his or her beliefs were foolish. My faith is very important to me. I try to live my life based on love, and feel the teachings of Christ help me to live a good, moral and honorable life. Calling me an idiot for this belief hurts … and that’s why I reported the post. The fact of the matter is, to a lot of atheists, these beliefs _simply are foolish_ in the same way that it would be foolish for you to still believe in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy. And I think the same thing when I see the people with the ashes on their foreheads… there go the idiots who believe in myths and fairy tales. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2008, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-catholic-opinion-warrants-official-warning/436952/103 "2008-02-11T17:01:52Z")
> [@Ellen Cherry](#): > > But it’s just so depressing to me for these same people, who I like and respect when the topic is something other than religion, to gather up all this vitrol and start posting about the “deluded” believers and the idiots with ashes. And what of my contention that **Dinsdale** ’s “insult” is exactly the same thing that a devout Catholic would say about Ash Wednesday? > [@catsix](#): > > Why is religion different? Because the gun owners aren’t (literally) holier than thou, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2008, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-catholic-opinion-warrants-official-warning/436952/104 "2008-02-11T17:23:41Z")
[QUOTE=catsix] And yet no warnings are given out when someone trots out the term ‘gun nuts’ or starts claiming that people who own guns are compensating for tiny penises when a thread about firearms and gun control comes up - even when people who have posted to the thread identify themselves as gun owners. [/QUOTE] Did you report those posts? ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2008, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-catholic-opinion-warrants-official-warning/436952/105 "2008-02-11T17:24:21Z")
[QUOTE=catsix] The fact of the matter is, to a lot of atheists, these beliefs _simply are foolish_ in the same way that it would be foolish for you to still believe in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy. And I think the same thing when I see the people with the ashes on their foreheads… there go the idiots who believe in myths and fairy tales. [/QUOTE] Well, of course, I get that, and I think **Ellen Cherry** does, too. The point is, why does anyone feel the need to go into a thread an innocent, non-debate thread on the subject and insult people? **Ellen Cherry** isn’t saying that she never had a fleeting thought that someone’s belief/opinion/hobby/whatever was foolish, she’s saying that she would not say so _because she doesn’t see the point in hurting other peoples’ feelings for no reason_. Your point about the “gun nut” accusations are well taken, at least by me…it irritates me when people say that kind of thing, and I’ve never touched a gun in my life. But, I still maintain that it’s different in a debate thread than in a thread that’s supposed to be a discussion among a group of people interested in the subject. I think it would be far MORE annoying if you started a thread in IMHO, for instance, asking opinions of gun owners about your interest in a new gun, and people came in THERE to call you a gun nut. ---
**Author:** ![Barrett\_Bonden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5e9695/32.png) [@Barrett\_Bonden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barrett_Bonden)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2008, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-catholic-opinion-warrants-official-warning/436952/106 "2008-02-11T17:28:17Z")
[QUOTE=Hostile Dialect] And what of my contention that **Dinsdale** ’s “insult” is exactly the same thing that a devout Catholic would say about Ash Wednesday? [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Hostile Dialect] FTR, the most devout Catholic I’ve ever known (my high school history teacher), said that you weren’t supposed to walk around all day with ash on your forehead. I don’t remember the exact official reasoning, but the impression I got was that Catholics who knew their shit would have said the exact same thing (“it allow[s] me to easily identify the idiots”) if asked about the practice of walking around all day with it. [/QUOTE] Within any denomination, there are many different ways of practicing the externals of religion. When I see someone who does something in a different way, I generally think, “Hmmm, that’s different.” Once I have fully memorized the Code of Canon Law, as it pertains to every single aspect of Catholic living, then I may be in a position to determine which practitioners are correct and which are incorrect. Once I have spoken to each of them individually to learn the source of their incorrect practice and instruct them on Canon Law I will _then_ be able to determine which of them are idiots. After that, I think I’ll need to remove a beam from my own eye, which should take a while. In the meantime, no, I don’t think devout Catholics (should) go around judging other people as idiots simply because their religious practices vary. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2008, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-catholic-opinion-warrants-official-warning/436952/107 "2008-02-11T17:32:45Z")
[QUOTE=catsix] The fact of the matter is, to a lot of atheists, these beliefs _simply are foolish_ in the same way that it would be foolish for you to still believe in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy. And I think the same thing when I see the people with the ashes on their foreheads… there go the idiots who believe in myths and fairy tales. [/QUOTE] The problem is that if the metric is “avoid offending people” it doesn’t matter if what the people in question believe is right, wrong, stupid or reasonable. The only measure that’s relevant is if they believe it or not, and whether they will be offended. The board pretty much works on the idea of avoiding offense - thus often things won’t be punished if no-one complains about them to the mods (or at least as I understand it). I might think that taking offense from something is silly or unreasonable. But that doesn’t mean that offense hasn’t been taken. And going out of your way to cause offense, or proclaim your superiority over such people, is again something bad independent of whether they’re right or not. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2008, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-catholic-opinion-warrants-official-warning/436952/108 "2008-02-11T17:56:41Z")
[QUOTE=Hostile Dialect] And what of my contention that **Dinsdale** ’s “insult” is exactly the same thing that a devout Catholic would say about Ash Wednesday? [/QUOTE] Your contention is not correct. Your teacher was mistaken. I grew up Catholic, in a neighborhood that entirely Catholic, and I have two granduncles, an aunt, and three cousins who are Catholic clergy. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2008, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-catholic-opinion-warrants-official-warning/436952/109 "2008-02-11T18:06:56Z")
My mistake, then. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2008, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-catholic-opinion-warrants-official-warning/436952/110 "2008-02-11T18:08:11Z")
[QUOTE=Colibri] Did you report those posts? [/QUOTE] **Catsix** doesn’t report posts. She aims center mass and _blows them away_. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2008, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-catholic-opinion-warrants-official-warning/436952/111 "2008-02-11T18:44:23Z")
[QUOTE=Dinsdale] Surely not likely to change anyone’s opinions or practices, but IMHO, from his initial warning, through his non-responses to my e-mails, to his posts in this thread, at least with regards to this issue **czarcasm** has certainly proven him/herself to be an immature, pompous, prick. [/quote] Since in this thread and the other one you’ve gone a long way to showing yourself to be an immature pompous prick as well, you might want to keep in mind the old aphorism about glass houses. Not a huge deal of course, at least not to this “idiot.” ---
**Author:** ![Orual](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@Orual](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orual)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2008, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-catholic-opinion-warrants-official-warning/436952/112 "2008-02-11T18:51:39Z")
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena] The point is, why does anyone feel the need to go into a thread an innocent, non-debate thread on the subject and insult people? [/QUOTE] Because they’re very smart. And special. And if they don’t tell us so, how will we know? ---
**Author:** ![brownie55](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f14d63/32.png) [@brownie55](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brownie55)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2008, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-catholic-opinion-warrants-official-warning/436952/113 "2008-02-12T01:54:55Z")
[QUOTE=Colibri] Did you report those posts? [/QUOTE] While I cannot speak for **catsix,** I can speak for me. No, I did not report those posts (and I found them offensive also) because I thought they fell under the insulting groups clause of the rules. Why the hell would I bother the Mods for a post that, as I understood it, fell within the guidelines of acceptable posts here. But now you are telling us that religious posts warrant special consideration because the godbotherers have something special? Look, **Czarcasm** can lack the balls and may be afraid of his atheism, but to punish others for having that courage just sucks. A group was insulted, and the rules say it OK. So both of you should just fuck off. And **Czarcasm** , I am disappointed in you. You may not be able to read every post, but you should at least be conversant with the rules of the board you are a Moderator for. It was disingenuous at best for you to suggest that the rule I quoted was only applied to ATMB. I call you a liar now and to your face. You know that the rules posted where I directed you are for the board, and not just the ATMB forum, and if you don’t you should resign as an embarrassment to the fight against ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2008, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-catholic-opinion-warrants-official-warning/436952/114 "2008-02-12T02:00:27Z")
> [@](#): > > **brownie55** said: > While I cannot speak for catsix, I can speak for me. > > No, I did not report those posts (and I found them offensive also) because I thought they fell under the insulting groups clause of the rules. Why the hell would I bother the Mods for a post that, as I understood it, fell within the guidelines of acceptable posts here. When I last made a comment about it (not a reported post, just a comment) I was told by one of the exalted highnesses that it’s perfectly acceptable to, in any forum, insult a group that I happen to be a member of, and that the insulter knows I am a member of, because that is not an insult of me directly. My search abilities with this forum’s software have not given me a narrow enough result pool to find those posts (I post in a lot of gun threads), so I suppose people can take my word for it or not. ---
**Author:** ![brownie55](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f14d63/32.png) [@brownie55](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brownie55)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2008, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-catholic-opinion-warrants-official-warning/436952/115 "2008-02-12T02:03:17Z")
[QUOTE=catsix] When I last made a comment about it (not a reported post, just a comment) I was told by one of the exalted highnesses that it’s perfectly acceptable to, in any forum, insult a group that I happen to be a member of, and that the insulter knows I am a member of, because that is not an insult of me directly. My search abilities with this forum’s software have not given me a narrow enough result pool to find those posts (I post in a lot of gun threads), so I suppose people can take my word for it or not. [/QUOTE] I feel better that I did not misrepresent you, then. You had the same experience I did. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2008, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-catholic-opinion-warrants-official-warning/436952/116 "2008-02-12T02:04:24Z")
[QUOTE=brownie55] While I cannot speak for **catsix,** I can speak for me. No, I did not report those posts (and I found them offensive also) because I thought they fell under the insulting groups clause of the rules. Why the hell would I bother the Mods for a post that, as I understood it, fell within the guidelines of acceptable posts here. But now you are telling us that religious posts warrant special consideration because the godbotherers have something special? Look, **Czarcasm** can lack the balls and may be afraid of his atheism, but to punish others for having that courage just sucks. A group was insulted, and the rules say it OK. So both of you should just fuck off. [/QUOTE] No, of course I am not saying that one group merits special consideration. If someone came into an IMHO thread titled “Gun owners: What is your favorite firearm?” and made similar comments, they would in my opinion be subject to a warning. Again, since you perhaps have missed it above: [QUOTE=Colibri] It should be noted that “threadshitting” per se does not require the inclusion of a specific insult. The offense is in the dismissive nature of the comment regarding the discussion in hand, which Dinsdale’s certainly was. If you will look at the definition I quoted above, Dex includes comments such as “Who cares?” as threadshitting. So whether the insult was general or specific is rather beside the point here. [/QUOTE] \*\*Dinsdale \*\* merited a warning for threadshitting, whether or not the insult was specific or merely general. He was out of line in that thread. ---
**Author:** ![brownie55](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f14d63/32.png) [@brownie55](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brownie55)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2008, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-catholic-opinion-warrants-official-warning/436952/117 "2008-02-12T02:53:00Z")
[QUOTE=Colibri] No, of course I am not saying that one group merits special consideration. If someone came into an IMHO thread titled “Gun owners: What is your favorite firearm?” and made similar comments, they would in my opinion be subject to a warning. Again, since you perhaps have missed it above: \*\*Dinsdale \*\* merited a warning for threadshitting, whether or not the insult was specific or merely general. He was out of line in that thread. [/QUOTE] No, that’s not what happened. [QUOTE=Czarcasm] The “mod who was directly involved” gave you a warning about calling people idiots in an IMHO thread. No amount of after-the-fact explanations or excuses changes this, and the only one who turned this from a minor matter into a major one is you. If you don’t feel “thread-shitting” should be enough to warrant a mod warning, then maybe I should have been clearer. You got the warning for thread-shitting and directly insulting other posters in IMHO. Such behavior belongs in The BBQ Pit. [/QUOTE] He ignored the rules posted by Dex in About This Message Board and claimed after the fact that is was about thread shitting. That’s something that he did not mention in his warning. I’ll call him a liar again. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2008, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-catholic-opinion-warrants-official-warning/436952/118 "2008-02-12T03:34:44Z")
[QUOTE=brownie55] No, that’s not what happened. He ignored the rules posted by Dex in About This Message Board and claimed after the fact that is was about thread shitting. That’s something that he did not mention in his warning. I’ll call him a liar again. [/QUOTE] 1. No matter who says it or how it is phrased, calling posters “idiots” in IMHO is not allowed. 2. Fuck you. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2008, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-catholic-opinion-warrants-official-warning/436952/119 "2008-02-12T04:13:58Z")
[QUOTE=brownie55] No, that’s not what happened. He ignored the rules posted by Dex in About This Message Board and claimed after the fact that is was about thread shitting. That’s something that he did not mention in his warning. I’ll call him a liar again. [/QUOTE] Then I’m going to call you a liar, as well as a moron. You are deliberately misrepresenting what happened. What **Czarcasm** said in his warning was: [QUOTE=Czarcasm] This is an inappropriate response for an IMHO thread, and you’ve certainly been here long enough to know that. [/QUOTE] This is quite correct; it was an inappropriate response for an IMHO thread. **Czarcasm** did not specify the infraction in the thread. Since he explained it in this one, of course it was necessarily “after the fact.” ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2008, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-catholic-opinion-warrants-official-warning/436952/120 "2008-02-12T05:01:11Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] 1. No matter who says it or how it is phrased, calling posters “idiots” in IMHO is not allowed. [/QUOTE] This is, AFAICT, a new rule, never before promulgated on this message board. The old rule, which has been linked to and which has not been removed, is that calling posters idiots IS explicitly allowed if it is done incidentally to calling a large group of people idiots. As for the charge of threadshitting, I think it’s a stretch. He was asked his opinion and he gave it. He was rude, but I don’t think it was threadshitting. The fact that he could have avoided the charge by elaborating makes the point, I think. Threadshitting is sending the message, “this is a stupid topic and you are idiots for asking about it.” It is always made worse by elaboration, not better. I think that’s a lot to read into **Dinsdale** ’s post. Nothing he said indicates to me that he thought the OP was foolish for starting the thread or that others were foolish for discussing it. He did imply that several posters were idiots, but not that they were idiots for posting in the thread. Therefore, not threadshitting, IMO. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-catholic-opinion-warrants-official-warning/436952.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-catholic-opinion-warrants-official-warning/436952.md?page=7)