# Anti-choicers slip soft fetus toys into kids' candy bags at ND state fair **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 25, 2013, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-choicers-slip-soft-fetus-toys-into-kids-candy-bags-at-nd-state-fair/664505 "2013-07-25T17:30:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Enola\_Gay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ab097/32.png) [@Enola\_Gay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Gay)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-choicers-slip-soft-fetus-toys-into-kids-candy-bags-at-nd-state-fair/664505/221 "2013-07-31T20:51:06Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > \*I cannot fathom a circumstance under which I personally would beat the crap out of my wife. If I were unhappy, I would get out of the marriage. I am, however, PRO-CHOICE. The choice I would make for myself is to NOT beat the crap out of my wife, under any circumstances. > > However, I strongly believe in the FREEDOM OF CHOICE for all men, so if e.g. **Marley** finds herself with an urge to beat the crap out of his wife and he decides to act on that urge, that is HIS business and there should be no law that prevents her from making that choice. > > So your premise that pro-choice = pro-beating-the-crap-out-of-one’s-wife , always couldn’t be more wrong.\* > > Abortion is worse that beating your wife. Your brilliant analogy has enlightened me. If I ever find myself with an unwanted pregnancy, I will beat Marley’s wife. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-choicers-slip-soft-fetus-toys-into-kids-candy-bags-at-nd-state-fair/664505/222 "2013-07-31T21:22:16Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Am I wrong? Has nobody ever explained that point to you before? I bet I’d find plenty of examples if I looked for other times you discussed abortion here. No, you’re not. > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > And **that** is nonsense, even accepting your estimate of proportions, which is also nonsense. No, it isn’t. > [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > Inaccuracy is one of my problems with this, yes. The doll shown is **substantially** more baby-like than a real fetus at that stage of development. If the defense of this is that is isn’t necessarily about abortion-- it’s educational, then that excuse is completely undermined by using inaccurate models. I decry any attempt by whatever organisation to present scientifically incorrect information to deceive. I however, understand that most toys are not scientifically correct and that whatever the reasons for the toys, it wasn’t to teach advance medicine. But it is a feeble attempt to cry “oh noes, think of the children, those foetuses aren’t 12 weeks old, they are 18!!!eleven!!”. It’s only because it’s about abortion. > [@](#): > > Why are they handing out false information to children? How is that ok? I would like to be enlightened as to what information is particularly or maliciously false. The toy is 6 cm long and and 12 week old fetus is 5.4 ([cite](http://www.babycentre.co.uk/12-weeks-pregnant)), body features are pretty OK. > [@](#): > > Yes, exactly what I’ve said twice now. Anti-abortion activists are liars and they will lie in service of their agenda. The only thing they care about is forcing women to carry unwanted fetuses to term. If they can find factual information to do that, they will use it. If they can’t (and they frequently can’t, because science is not on their side) they will just make it up. Can you point in this particular case the most egregious example of a lie? > [@](#): > > You are one of them- a liar who lies unashamedly. There’s some stuff in that book you lunatics like that says you’re not supposed to lie, but I guess you ignore that part. Interestingly, it says nothing about abortion. But woman-hating liars can’t be bothered with the \*actual contents \*of the Bible. After all, it’s not really about any of that, is it? Can you show in this thread where I have lied? > [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Analogy FAIL. **Marley** does not get to make the choice on behalf of his wife about whether to participate in the activity. The putative **Mrs. Marley** is a discrete, sentient, autonomous individual, who has the right to choose (or decline) to be in such an arrangement (although I would sincerely hope that they both remember the safe word). Since abprtion is killin anothe rperson without their consent, the analogy seemed pretty obvious. > [@](#): > > OTOH, **miss elizabeth** ’s putative fetus is NOT a discrete, sentient, autonomous individual, and is not technically a “participant” in the activity, any more than your overgrown toenails are “participants” in the activity of a pedicure. Should **miss elizabeth** make the choice to carry the putative pregnancy to term (and notify you of that choice), it might then be coherent for you to refer to the fetus as a discrete individual (if not yet sentient or autonomous) and therefore a “participant” in certain activities. You mean “NOT a discrete, sentient, autonomous individual” as in a just-born baby with the chord stull intact? Or do you mean that shooting people in a coma is OK? Sleeping? Your toenail example shows that biology is not your friend. > [@Marley23](#): > > No she’s not. She’s a woman. We’re talking pro-life here. Oh, snap. > [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > Just in case anyone wonders, I don’t mind if ya’ll use me as a stand in for “woman who wants abortion”. I’ve had two abortions, and two children, and I’m ashamed of none of it. It’s very hard to be ashamed of children you’ve killed before they had the chance to ashame you. (oh, shorry, maybe it means you are not ashamed of having killed them) > [@Jackmannii](#): > > Cripes, I leave this thread for a little while and come back to find discussions of sadomasochistic activities by a moderator and his spouse. :eek: > > The next thing we’ll probably see is an organized attempt to have pro-lifers hand out soft squishy fetus toys in bags of Halloween candy. Then satanists will get into the act, slipping inverted pentagrams into Xmas goody bags, PETA will hand out literature attacking exploitation of poultry at Easter egg hunts…hey, it’s all harmless education, big effing deal. The little turds have to grow up sooner or later. :dubious: OK. > [@Enola\_Gay](#): > > Your brilliant analogy has enlightened me. If I ever find myself with an unwanted pregnancy, I will beat Marley’s wife. I’ll tell you. It looks like lots of fun, but it gets old quickly ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-choicers-slip-soft-fetus-toys-into-kids-candy-bags-at-nd-state-fair/664505/223 "2013-07-31T21:37:47Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > Since abprtion is killin anothe rperson without their consent, the analogy seemed pretty obvious. As I point out that you have not established that the fetus is a person, this is precisely what the term _begging the question_ refers to. > [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > You mean “NOT a discrete, sentient, autonomous individual” as in a just-born baby with the chord stull intact? Or do you mean that shooting people in a coma is OK? Sleeping? 😕 Those are still discrete and individuals. Sentience and autonomy would be necessary to make it ethical to permit their participation in BDSM activities. ---
**Author:** ![Cyros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a698b9/32.png) [@Cyros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyros)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-choicers-slip-soft-fetus-toys-into-kids-candy-bags-at-nd-state-fair/664505/224 "2013-07-31T22:19:46Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > As I point out that you have not established that the fetus is a person, this is precisely what the term _begging the question_ refers to. Even if we do stipulate, for the sake of argument, the fetus is a person, there are many instances of society agreeing that the death of one person is acceptable to maintain the integrity of the rights of another. ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-choicers-slip-soft-fetus-toys-into-kids-candy-bags-at-nd-state-fair/664505/225 "2013-07-31T22:56:01Z")
I’m just going to reply to what you said to me, since this is too much stupid for me to deal with otherwise. > [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > I decry any attempt by whatever organisation to present scientifically incorrect information to deceive. No, this is a lie. > [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > I also support not quite scientifically accurate fetus toys that would discourage people from having and/or promoting abortions. You said _in this thread_ you support scientifically inaccurate toys if they reduce abortion. > [@](#): > > I however, understand that most toys are not scientifically correct and that whatever the reasons for the toys, it wasn’t to teach advance medicine. These aren’t toys. They aren’t fun. No one plays with them. > [@](#): > > But it is a feeble attempt to cry “oh noes, think of the children, those foetuses aren’t 12 weeks old, they are 18!!!eleven!!”. It’s only because it’s about abortion. No you moron, people aren’t upset because they are inaccurate- they are upset because they were being handed out without parent’s permission to small children. Because parents shouldn’t have to explain abortion to little fucking kids at the state fair. It’s completely inappropriate and fucked up. The _ **defense** _ of this was that the toys were educational and not really about abortion. Which naturally prompted all the sane people to say that, for educational materials, they were incorrect. But thank you for showing again what a bunch of liars the anti-abortion crowd is. > [@](#): > > I would like to be enlightened as to what information is particularly or maliciously false. > The toy is 6 cm long and and 12 week old fetus is 5.4 ([cite](http://www.babycentre.co.uk/12-weeks-pregnant)), body features are pretty OK. No, they aren’t. The facial structure is completely different and is meant to mislead people into thinking a 12 week old fetus looks just like a tiny newborn. Which it doesn’t; it looks like a fucked up little blob. > [@](#): > > Can you point in this particular case the most egregious example of a lie? Well, there’s the lie I just pointed out. How’s about that? > [@](#): > > Can you show in this thread where I have lied? See above. > [@](#): > > It’s very hard to be ashamed of children you’ve killed before they had the chance to ashame you. > (oh, shorry, maybe it means you are not ashamed of having killed them) I’m sorry, you must be confused. I’ve never killed my children. Or anyone! Also my kids never shame me, they’re freaking awesome. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-choicers-slip-soft-fetus-toys-into-kids-candy-bags-at-nd-state-fair/664505/226 "2013-07-31T22:58:52Z")
Besides, Soft Fetus Toys would make a great name for a rock band. ---
**Author:** ![Enola\_Gay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ab097/32.png) [@Enola\_Gay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Gay)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-choicers-slip-soft-fetus-toys-into-kids-candy-bags-at-nd-state-fair/664505/227 "2013-08-01T01:39:33Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > Since abprtion is killin anothe rperson without their consent, the analogy seemed pretty obvious. Ok so right here’s the root of our communication gap: what you are calling a “person” is not my definition of a person. And maybe I’m weird like this, but when my husband blows a load all over the sheets, I do not begin mourning the loss of our children or potential children. ---
**Author:** ![Enola\_Gay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ab097/32.png) [@Enola\_Gay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Gay)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-choicers-slip-soft-fetus-toys-into-kids-candy-bags-at-nd-state-fair/664505/228 "2013-08-01T02:21:58Z")
Btw, I’m not equating ejaculation with abortion, as they are 2 _very_ different things. As are abortion and murdering a live baby. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-choicers-slip-soft-fetus-toys-into-kids-candy-bags-at-nd-state-fair/664505/229 "2013-08-01T02:23:54Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > As I point out that you have not established that the fetus is a person, this is precisely what the term _begging the question_ refers to. You’re right, I haven’t. I’ll take a page off Marley’s oh-so-cool playbook "Because he’s never heard this before, so this will be totally new information and he will adjust his statements accordingly… " and go from there. > [@](#): > > 😕 > > Those are still discrete and individuals. Sentience and autonomy would be necessary to make it ethical to permit their participation in BDSM activities. 😕 You seem to be confusing BDSM with beating the crap out of one’s wife. > [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > I’m just going to reply to what you said to me, since this is too much stupid for me to deal with otherwise. > > No, this is a lie. > > You said _in this thread_ you support scientifically inaccurate toys if they reduce abortion. If you’re presenting a scientificallly inaccurate toy in other to deceive it’d be wrong (Saying that the fetus has chroloplasts and plays bassoon on the 4th week). If you’re presenting a scientifically inaccurate toy in order to reduce abortion and the scientific inaccuracy was minor and not the main point, it’d be ok (“look, it says it’s 14 weeks but the shape of the liver as shown in the plush toy is only reached in the middle of the 15th week”). > [@](#): > > These aren’t toys. They aren’t fun. No one plays with them. So it’s an esthetic problem now, you get to define what other people can call a toy…very pro-choice. > [@](#): > > No you moron, people aren’t upset because they are inaccurate- they are upset because they were being handed out without parent’s permission to small children. Because parents shouldn’t have to explain abortion to little fucking kids at the state fair. It’s completely inappropriate and fucked up. So, why the fuck bring the supposed scientific inaccuracy up? The OP comes from a not-quite-unbiased sourced quoting one person; not what I would called peer-reviewed JAMA material. > [@](#): > > The _ **defense** _ of this was that the toys were educational and not really about abortion. Which naturally prompted all the sane people to say that, for educational materials, they were incorrect. Could you point to the inaccuracy? > [@](#): > > But thank you for showing again what a bunch of liars the anti-abortion crowd is. Sure, but I didn’t. > [@](#): > > No, they aren’t. The facial structure is completely different and is meant to mislead people into thinking a 12 week old fetus looks just like a tiny newborn. Which it doesn’t; it looks like a fucked up little blob. > Really, really close. > > Well, there’s the lie I just pointed out. How’s about that? > > See above. Let’s see. [Toy](http://www.hh76.com/details.aspx?prod_id=3378) [Baby](http://www.dshs.state.tx.us/wrtk/develop/week12.shtm) Really grasping at straws here, trying to justify abortion via “oh noes, the eyes are 0,0002 mm to close!!” > [@](#): > > I’m sorry, you must be confused. I’ve never killed my children. Or anyone! > > Also my kids never shame me, they’re freaking awesome. Yes you have, two of them by your own admission. Let’s see: 50% your DNA + 50% dad’s DNA, growing in your body by it’s own processess = child. > [@Jackmannii](#): > > Besides, Soft Fetus Toys would make a great name for a rock band. Post punk, I’d say. > [@Enola\_Gay](#): > > Ok so right here’s the root of our communication gap: what you are calling a “person” is not my definition of a person. Exactly. > [@](#): > > And maybe I’m weird like this, but when my husband blows a load all over the sheets, I do not begin mourning the loss of our children or potential children. If you don’t know the difference between haploid cells and diploid cells, and the difference between one-cell organisms and one cell of a multicellular organism youd better shut up about science and let the grownups speak. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-choicers-slip-soft-fetus-toys-into-kids-candy-bags-at-nd-state-fair/664505/230 "2013-08-01T02:29:15Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > No, they aren’t. The facial structure is completely different and is meant to mislead people into thinking a 12 week old fetus looks just like a tiny newborn. Which it doesn’t; it looks like a **fucked up little blob**. (bolding mine) Hey, now! I prefer “parasitic alien invader”. (My son’s ultrasound at 10 weeks…totally looked like a [Grey](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_alien).) 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Enola\_Gay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ab097/32.png) [@Enola\_Gay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Gay)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-choicers-slip-soft-fetus-toys-into-kids-candy-bags-at-nd-state-fair/664505/231 "2013-08-01T02:36:49Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > If you don’t know the difference between haploid cells and diploid cells, and the difference between one-cell organisms and one cell of a multicellular organism youd better shut up about science and let the grownups speak. I also had an IUD for some time, and btst I did not mourn the loss of those diploid cells each month when the embryo failed to implant, due to my murderous actions. God rest their souls 😢 ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-choicers-slip-soft-fetus-toys-into-kids-candy-bags-at-nd-state-fair/664505/232 "2013-08-01T03:10:49Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > Let’s see: 50% your DNA + 50% dad’s DNA, growing in your body by it’s own processess _=_ child. You misspelled _≠_. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-choicers-slip-soft-fetus-toys-into-kids-candy-bags-at-nd-state-fair/664505/233 "2013-08-01T20:16:36Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > Killing people? More abortion-providers have been killed by other abortion-providers than by pro-life people since Roe. Most of those “pro-choice” killings are boyfriends killing their pregnant girlfriends because they don’t want to have an abortion. How the fuck is that “pro-choice.” NO pro-choice person ever objects to a woman choosing to bear her child. Anti-abortion people, however, are killing people they do not know simply because they do not like the fact that they are performing a legal act. In his book “Pro-Life Answers to Pro-Choice Questions,” Randy Alcorn compares killing doctors with burning sloveowners crops. Right, the life of a doctor is no more than some plants. ---
**Author:** ![OurLordPeace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e8c25b/32.png) [@OurLordPeace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OurLordPeace)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-choicers-slip-soft-fetus-toys-into-kids-candy-bags-at-nd-state-fair/664505/234 "2013-08-01T20:28:01Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > You misspelled _≠_. Along with “its.” ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-choicers-slip-soft-fetus-toys-into-kids-candy-bags-at-nd-state-fair/664505/235 "2013-08-01T20:28:17Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > Randy Alcorn compares killing doctors with burning sloveowners crops. Right, the life of a doctor is no more than some plants. I wish one two persons, one from each side could stay cool long enough to discuss their side. If someone actually believed that abortions take a human life, and can see why they would think it the right thing to do to kill abortionists. But do people with that view allow for abortion in the case of rape and incest? What about for the life of the Mother? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-choicers-slip-soft-fetus-toys-into-kids-candy-bags-at-nd-state-fair/664505/236 "2013-08-01T20:32:13Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I wish one two persons, one from each side could stay cool long enough to discuss their side. . . . It has happened, upon occasion. The usual result is, “Well, I see what you mean, but I can’t agree with it,” followed by a change of subject. So, nice weather lately, eh? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-choicers-slip-soft-fetus-toys-into-kids-candy-bags-at-nd-state-fair/664505/237 "2013-08-01T20:36:18Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > It has happened, upon occasion. The usual result is, “Well, I see what you mean, but I can’t agree with it,” followed by a change of subject. > > So, nice weather lately, eh? Yes, we finally received enough rain that most counties no longer have burn bans. It is very hot, though. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-choicers-slip-soft-fetus-toys-into-kids-candy-bags-at-nd-state-fair/664505/238 "2013-08-01T20:43:00Z")
Not gonna happen. The anti-abortion crowd views pregnancy as a “temporary minor convenience” that woman should suffer for getting pregnant, and that adoption is the answer because no adoption ever goes wrong. ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-choicers-slip-soft-fetus-toys-into-kids-candy-bags-at-nd-state-fair/664505/239 "2013-08-01T20:56:54Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > Yes you have, two of them by your own admission. > Let’s see: 50% your DNA + 50% dad’s DNA, growing in your body by it’s own processess = child. Yeah… _ **you** _ should shut up about science and let the grownups speak. Scientific accuracy, my ass. My abortions were… experiences, at best. Not children. The first one royally sucked ass because I was 16 and in the south, so I had to travel out of state to have it done. Scary!! The second one was nothing at all. Pee on the stick, see the line. Call the clinic, go in a day or so later, take a couple pills, go home. If that counts as a child to you, you’re delusional. My children, however… the planning and hoping, and then the joy when I found out I was pregnant! Then nine whole months of hope and pain and doctor’s visits and setting up the nursery. Finally going into labor, and going through hours of contractions and nausea, so that I could finally hold my baby in my arms. But that was only the beginning! All the sleepless nights, the worry, the happiness, the laughter. Reading to them, teaching them their letters and numbers, teaching them manners. Watching them cry and feeling hopeless. Seeing them cry and having a magic kiss that takes the tears away. Finally watching them toddle into the school building, looking so _tiny_ and vulnerable, and trying to smile till they can’t see you anymore, and then breaking down sobbing on the sidewalk because my babies were growing up. Punishing them when they do wrong, praising them when they do right. making breakfast, packing lunches, cooking dinner. The day in and day out of parenthood, for the last _thirteen years_. And knowing it will never ever stop, that no matter how big they get they will always be my children, my babies. THAT is a child. _That_ is parenthood. For you to compare all that to a little clump of cells I dealt with in a doctor visit is just fucked up. One of us holds children in contempt. One of us values life, and understands the importance of valuing kids. But it isn’t you. ---
**Author:** ![OurLordPeace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e8c25b/32.png) [@OurLordPeace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OurLordPeace)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-choicers-slip-soft-fetus-toys-into-kids-candy-bags-at-nd-state-fair/664505/240 "2013-08-01T22:08:05Z")
[There is a way to collapse the abortion rate.](http://healthland.time.com/2012/10/05/study-free-birth-control-significantly-cuts-abortion-rates/) It’s fiscally conservative, also. How do Aji and Grumman feel about it? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-choicers-slip-soft-fetus-toys-into-kids-candy-bags-at-nd-state-fair/664505.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-choicers-slip-soft-fetus-toys-into-kids-candy-bags-at-nd-state-fair/664505.md?page=13)