# Anti-choicers slip soft fetus toys into kids' candy bags at ND state fair **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 25, 2013, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-choicers-slip-soft-fetus-toys-into-kids-candy-bags-at-nd-state-fair/664505 "2013-07-25T17:30:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-choicers-slip-soft-fetus-toys-into-kids-candy-bags-at-nd-state-fair/664505/261 "2013-08-02T16:41:39Z")
> [@Cyros](#): > > Can you think of any other situation where society grants the right to use another person’s organs, regardless of their consent, to assist in survival? No. You seem to have confused abortion with a simple issue. Can you think of any other situation where society grants the full unresticted right to kill a person, regardless of their absolute innocence, to basically never assist in survival? > [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > I never apologized for anything in this thread. You are a liar. I know, I know, poor baby. You can call me liar if it makes you feel good, go ahead. ---
**Author:** ![sylmar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b782af/32.png) [@sylmar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sylmar)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-choicers-slip-soft-fetus-toys-into-kids-candy-bags-at-nd-state-fair/664505/262 "2013-08-02T17:04:10Z")
Ají de Gallina > [@](#): > > Fetuses are autonomous, their development is self -regulated. So’s cancer… ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-choicers-slip-soft-fetus-toys-into-kids-candy-bags-at-nd-state-fair/664505/263 "2013-08-02T17:15:42Z")
> [@sylmar](#): > > Ají de Gallina > So’s cancer… and key lime is needed for Peruvian ceviche. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-choicers-slip-soft-fetus-toys-into-kids-candy-bags-at-nd-state-fair/664505/264 "2013-08-02T17:25:32Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > and key lime is needed for Peruvian ceviche. Must it be **Key** lime? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-choicers-slip-soft-fetus-toys-into-kids-candy-bags-at-nd-state-fair/664505/265 "2013-08-02T17:40:59Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Must it be **Key** lime? So now we are picky about what kind of fruit we kill? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-choicers-slip-soft-fetus-toys-into-kids-candy-bags-at-nd-state-fair/664505/266 "2013-08-02T17:55:05Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Must it be **Key** lime? It’s gotta be, it opens the flavours. > [@carnivorousplant](#): > > So now we are picky about what kind of fruit we kill? > :dubious: Picky and fiddly as hell. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-choicers-slip-soft-fetus-toys-into-kids-candy-bags-at-nd-state-fair/664505/267 "2013-08-02T19:24:29Z")
Ají, Suppose there was a sect of people who believed that human life and soul was contained in the ovum. In order to survive this baby needed to be fertilized and implanted in a womb. Therefor those women who ovulate without getting pregnant mere committing infanticide. To end this barbaric practice they are advocating that all fertile women be foricibly inseminated. While there might be some inconvenience or invasion of privacy to the women in question, but that is of little consequence in comparison to the wonderful babies that will result. I assume that you are appalled by this idea, but I challenge you to make any argument against it that can not in an analogous way be made against the pro-life position by pro choice advocates. And vis-versa any defense of the pro life stance that can’t in turn be used to defend the view above. The only difference is the further scaling back of an arbitrary line. ---
**Author:** ![August\_West](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/august_west/32/18069_2.png) [@August\_West](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/August_West)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-choicers-slip-soft-fetus-toys-into-kids-candy-bags-at-nd-state-fair/664505/268 "2013-08-02T19:26:07Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > As human as the tonsils I had removed, and just as sentient. Sentient Tonsils… band name! ---
**Author:** ![April\_R](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@April\_R](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/April_R)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-choicers-slip-soft-fetus-toys-into-kids-candy-bags-at-nd-state-fair/664505/269 "2013-08-02T19:35:15Z")
Life is like a Box O Fetuses… [http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18uv0vq5k7vt3png/ku-medium.png](http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18uv0vq5k7vt3png/ku-medium.png) ---
**Author:** ![sylmar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b782af/32.png) [@sylmar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sylmar)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-choicers-slip-soft-fetus-toys-into-kids-candy-bags-at-nd-state-fair/664505/270 "2013-08-02T19:35:25Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > and key lime is needed for Peruvian ceviche. Spot on and highly relevant to the conversation. Thanks for sharing that amazing insight into your mental process. Just curious Aji. In your spare time, when you’re not providing evasive “answers” and making inappropriate comparisons here, do you still pass the time doodling on walls with your own shit? ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-choicers-slip-soft-fetus-toys-into-kids-candy-bags-at-nd-state-fair/664505/271 "2013-08-02T19:38:09Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Ají, > > Suppose there was a sect of people who believed that human life and soul was contained in the ovum. In order to survive this baby needed to be fertilized and implanted in a womb. Therefor those women who ovulate without getting pregnant mere committing infanticide. To end this barbaric practice they are advocating that all fertile women be foricibly inseminated. While there might be some inconvenience or invasion of privacy to the women in question, but that is of little consequence in comparison to the wonderful babies that will result. > > I assume that you are appalled by this idea, but I challenge you to make any argument against it that can not in an analogous way be made against the pro-life position by pro choice advocates. And vis-versa any defense of the pro life stance that can’t in turn be used to defend the view above. The only difference is the further scaling back of an arbitrary line. Simple. Ovum = Haploid cell. Once you understand the concept of a Haploid cell the discussion is over. If you don’t the discussion cannot begin. Ova are not persons, therefore, infanticide cannot occur, personal beliefs be damned\*. That’s it. Thanks for the softball. I’ll be here all week, tip your waiter. \*Unless, of course, science is considered a personal belief. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-choicers-slip-soft-fetus-toys-into-kids-candy-bags-at-nd-state-fair/664505/272 "2013-08-02T19:39:40Z")
> [@sylmar](#): > > In your spare time, when you’re not providing evasive “answers” and making inappropriate comparisons here, do you still pass the time doodling on walls with your own shit? What a compelling argument. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-choicers-slip-soft-fetus-toys-into-kids-candy-bags-at-nd-state-fair/664505/273 "2013-08-02T19:54:30Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > Simple. > Ovum = Haploid cell. Once you understand the concept of a Haploid cell the discussion is over. If you don’t the discussion cannot begin. Ova are not persons, therefore, infanticide cannot occur, personal beliefs be damned\*. > > That’s it. > Thanks for the softball. > I’ll be here all week, tip your waiter. > > \*Unless, of course, science is considered a personal belief. Fetus = pre-brain. Once you understand the concept of not having a brain the discussion is over. If you don’t the discussion cannot begin. fetuses are not persons, therefore, infanticide cannot occur, personal beliefs be damned. Other than an arbitrary personal belief of a start point it appears we are in agreement. ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-choicers-slip-soft-fetus-toys-into-kids-candy-bags-at-nd-state-fair/664505/274 "2013-08-02T20:24:30Z")
It doesn’t matter anyway because no one is compelled to donate organs (let alone their whole body) for another person. No, not even your kid. It’s true that the fetus isn’t a person, isn’t sentient, isn’t a baby, isn’t a child, isn’t an infant, and doesn’t have a brain. But it wouldn’t matter anyway because of bodily autonomy. ---
**Author:** ![sylmar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b782af/32.png) [@sylmar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sylmar)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-choicers-slip-soft-fetus-toys-into-kids-candy-bags-at-nd-state-fair/664505/275 "2013-08-02T20:42:19Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > What a compelling argument. :rolleyes: Every bit as compelling as Aji’s response to my original post. Got any other one sided pissing and moaning to complete before your bladder runs out Carny, or are you good for a bit? ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-choicers-slip-soft-fetus-toys-into-kids-candy-bags-at-nd-state-fair/664505/276 "2013-08-02T20:42:40Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Fetus = pre-brain. Once you understand the concept of not having a brain the discussion is over. If you don’t the discussion cannot begin. fetuses are not persons, therefore, infanticide cannot occur, personal beliefs be damned. > Other than an arbitrary personal belief of a start point it appears we are in agreement. If a distinct DNA and self-regulation is not enough for, then an impasse has been reached between you and facts. (Hint: Facts win) I imagine, then, that with your definiton, people who have undegone hemispherectomies are only half human. > [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > It doesn’t matter anyway because no one is compelled to donate organs (let alone their whole body) for another person. No, not even your kid. > > It’s true that the fetus isn’t a person, isn’t sentient, isn’t a baby, isn’t a child, isn’t an infant, and doesn’t have a brain. But it wouldn’t matter anyway because of bodily autonomy. What do you mean with bodily autonomy? I mean, just to crush your argument the right way. Is it a) Cannot feed/protect itself? or b) It resides inside another person? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-choicers-slip-soft-fetus-toys-into-kids-candy-bags-at-nd-state-fair/664505/277 "2013-08-02T20:48:38Z")
> [@sylmar](#): > > Got any other one sided pissing and moaning to complete before your bladder runs out Carny, or are you good for a bit? And here I was believing that you would pause and reflect. :rolleyes: What does it mean, “Carny”? ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-choicers-slip-soft-fetus-toys-into-kids-candy-bags-at-nd-state-fair/664505/278 "2013-08-02T21:05:55Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > What do you mean with bodily autonomy? I mean, just to crush your argument the right way. > Is it > > a) Cannot feed/protect itself? > or > b) It resides inside another person? A little of both, mostly neither. The law cannot compel anyone to save the life of another person, even if they are able to do so. Even more relevant, individuals cannot be compelled to donate their organs or compromise their bodily integrity, even if it is to save the life of another person. This holds even if that person is “innocent” and even if that person is the individual’s child. If my son (the real one, not the pretend one you made up) needed a kidney to live, and I was the only match in the WHOLE WORLD, the law still cannot make me give him a kidney. Not even if the reason his kidneys are bad is because of something I did! I have [bodily integrity](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodily_integrity); the state cannot compel me to use my body, even if it is to save the life of another person. In other words, I ain’t gotta loan my uterus out to no one. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-choicers-slip-soft-fetus-toys-into-kids-candy-bags-at-nd-state-fair/664505/279 "2013-08-02T21:06:36Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > . . . It’s true that the fetus isn’t a person, isn’t sentient, isn’t a baby, isn’t a child, isn’t an infant, and doesn’t have a brain. But it wouldn’t matter anyway because of bodily autonomy. I’m in complete agreement with this. But obviously our correspondent isn’t going to be. That’s what is so sad about this debate: it always come down to a total stand-still. They believe one thing, we believe another. It’s at the meta-level, thus, that I think we’re strongest. They say, “We believe different things, thus we will compel you to act our way by force of law.” We say, “We believe different things, thus let’s just each go our own way and act according to our beliefs.” That, and the bodily autonomy argument, which I find mighty damn convincing. Forcing someone to continue an unwanted pregnancy is even more invasive and intrusive than conscription. And conscription (thank God) is gone! ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-choicers-slip-soft-fetus-toys-into-kids-candy-bags-at-nd-state-fair/664505/280 "2013-08-02T21:10:19Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > The law cannot compel anyone to save the life of another person, even if they are able to do so. Wait a minute, here. If I’m walking across the Broadway Bridge (over the Arkansas River) at midnight and see Rush Limbaugh hanging off by his finger tips, I can look down at him and say, “Rush, old buddy, I’m thinking of a number between one and five billion.”? Cool! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-choicers-slip-soft-fetus-toys-into-kids-candy-bags-at-nd-state-fair/664505.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-choicers-slip-soft-fetus-toys-into-kids-candy-bags-at-nd-state-fair/664505.md?page=15)