# Anti-communists? What's wrong with Cuba's health care system? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 18, 2004, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-communists-whats-wrong-with-cubas-health-care-system/280547 "2004-12-18T18:36:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Plan\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Plan\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plan_B)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-communists-whats-wrong-with-cubas-health-care-system/280547/1 "2004-12-18T18:36:53Z")
I recently read an interview with Che Guevara’s daughter in New Scientist magazine, probably available on line. The interviewer didn’t ask any tough questions and the net effect was kind of like a paid advertisement for Castro’s Cuba. Some of the stats cited included a high life expectancy, a high ration of doctors to people, a high rate of immunization for children. I’m a libertarian and have a hard time believing that anything that good could come out of a tyranny. But I have no facts available to contradict the above. Also I’m willing to accept that there’s more to success than type of government. Also, maybe there are times when free markets don’t work as well. So the question is: How good is health care in Cuba these days? ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-communists-whats-wrong-with-cubas-health-care-system/280547/2 "2004-12-18T20:55:56Z")
The life expectancy in Kerala, India’s communist state, now exceeds America’s. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-communists-whats-wrong-with-cubas-health-care-system/280547/3 "2004-12-18T21:18:53Z")
> [@even sven](#): > > The life expectancy in Kerala, India’s communist state, now exceeds America’s. I can’t find any cite that supports this claim. The most recent numbers I can find are approx 69 years for men, 76 for women, which is lower than in the USA. ---
**Author:** ![maharaja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@maharaja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/maharaja)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-communists-whats-wrong-with-cubas-health-care-system/280547/4 "2004-12-18T21:22:47Z")
> [@even sven](#): > > The life expectancy in Kerala, India’s communist state, now exceeds America’s. I don’t think this comparison is quite what the OP is looking for. Even when the CPI (Communist Party India) or CPIM (Communist Party India Marxist) forms a state government, AFAIK, they’re always in a coalition. So, implementing a Cuba-style economic policy is simply not feasible. Furthermore, India doesn’t really have a shared-sovereignity system the way the US does, so economic policy is really largely controlled by the central government (barring a few notable exceptions). India is certainly socialist, but I don’t believe there’s a Cuba-style communism being practiced in Kerala. By this, I mean notable features of a purely command economy (such as property collectivization, elimination of private industry, etc) aren’t present. As to the OP, it’s very clear that command economies can accomplish impressive things in relatively short amounts of time (such as the rapid industrialization of China, USSR). What’s not so clear is if this type of economy is sustainable, and history seems to indicate that it’s not. Economics isn’t my really my bag, though, so I’ll let someone else field this in more depth. ---
**Author:** ![EsotericEnigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e274bd/32.png) [@EsotericEnigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EsotericEnigma)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-communists-whats-wrong-with-cubas-health-care-system/280547/5 "2004-12-18T21:26:28Z")
I’m not an expert, but I’ll offer a few ideas that might have something to do with the subject. Do Cubans have access to expensive medical treatment such as chemotherapy? How much of their medical budget comes from foreign aid and charity donations? Are doctors in Cuba trained as effectively as ones in free market societies? If so, where are they trained? Cuban universities might be a joke when compared to modern universities in free market societies, so an effective argument may be that the Cuban medical system really owes its success to the advancement and charity of free market societies. There are probably a lot more factors that contribute to the apparent success of Cuba’s medical system. Their socialist government is almost certainly not a positive factor, but there are more important things to consider than type of government when measuring things like this. ---
**Author:** ![annaplurabelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/919ad9/32.png) [@annaplurabelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/annaplurabelle)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-communists-whats-wrong-with-cubas-health-care-system/280547/6 "2004-12-18T22:34:46Z")
[Cuba](http://havanajournal.com/culture_comments/A1047_0_3_0_M/) _exports_ pharmaceuticals, vaccines and biotechnology: > [@](#): > > …During the last few years the biggest earner for Cuban biotechnology has been the export of Hepatitis-B vaccine to more than 30 countries. The Cuban vaccine is widely regarded as the more effective than Belgian and US-produced vaccines. > > …Cuba’s cutting-edge products for neck and breast cancer have caused the biggest stir in the world of biotechnology. > > They have just been licensed to a German pharmaceutical company, with rights to develop the drug TheraCIM h-R3 for the European market. > > Analysts say so far the commercial rewards for Cuba’s many medical innovations have only been a fraction of their potential. > > But if TheraCim h-R3 receives regulatory approval, it could become a standard cancer treatment in Europe in four or five years, with estimated sales of around $3bn a year. > > In the long-term, Fidel Castro’s big gamble with the heavy state investment in biotechnology may finally pay a dividend not only in health benefits, but also in the top-notch economic rewards that have so far eluded him. > > It would also be a very satisfying for Cuban scientists to feel their research and development, which is not driven by the profit motive, had been successful in the world marketplace. In addition, Cuba has a “healthy” health tourism industry: > [@](#): > > …Another growing source of income is health tourism, with a number of specialist hospitals, clinics, health spas and resorts catering to foreign visitors. > > Last year more than 5000 foreign patients travelled to Cuba for a wide range of treatments including eye-surgery, neurological disorders such as multiple sclerosis and Parkinson’s’ disease, and orthopaedics. > > Most patients are from Latin America. > > However the unique Cuban treatment for retinitis pigmentosa, often known as night blindness, has attracted many patients from Europe and North America. > > Health tourism generates revenues of around $40m a year. ---
**Author:** ![EsotericEnigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e274bd/32.png) [@EsotericEnigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EsotericEnigma)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-communists-whats-wrong-with-cubas-health-care-system/280547/7 "2004-12-18T23:16:50Z")
> [@annaplurabelle](#): > > [Cuba](http://havanajournal.com/culture_comments/A1047_0_3_0_M/) _exports_ pharmaceuticals, vaccines and biotechnology:In addition, Cuba has a “healthy” health tourism industry: I remember reading a news article about an American biotech company funding research into a hepatitus vaccine in Cuba. It was part of a story about how the embargo was being relaxed on things like medical technology research. Is this the same drug being referred to in the article you linked? ---
**Author:** ![annaplurabelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/919ad9/32.png) [@annaplurabelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/annaplurabelle)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2004, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-communists-whats-wrong-with-cubas-health-care-system/280547/8 "2004-12-19T00:31:01Z")
> [@EsotericEnigma](#): > > I remember reading a news article about an American biotech company funding research into a hepatitus vaccine in Cuba. It was part of a story about how the embargo was being relaxed on things like medical technology research. Is this the same drug being referred to in the article you linked? I don’t know what you read. Might it have been the _meningitis_ vaccine licensed by GlaxoSmithKline? They had to get US approval for that. I don’t know of another example of the US embargo being relaxed re biotech. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2004, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-communists-whats-wrong-with-cubas-health-care-system/280547/9 "2004-12-19T02:04:06Z")
Buried in the middle here are some [recent Kerala life expectancies](http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/thscrip/print.pl?file=20040716002009000.htm&date=fl2114/&prd=fline&), which are 71.8 for rural areas and 79.8 for urban areas. I could not the all over statistic which was reported in The Hindu Thiruvananthapuram edition in mid-July stating that Kerala’s life expectancy had surpassed- for the moment at least- the US’s. Here are some (somewhat outdated)[Kerala statistics](http://www.jadski.com/kerala/g2comparativedata.htm) that illustrate just how much farther Kerala comes in quality-of-life issues compared to the rest of India. India is apparently [not even better off than Botswana](http://www.rediff.com/money/2003/jul/08hdi.htm) and yet this one poor state (with a per capita income of [$485.00](http://www.nri-worldwide.com/cgi-local/ts.pl?action=fetch&area=shameofindia)) is leading the way in regards to birth rate, literacy, life expetantcy, women’s issues and vaccination rates. It’d be foolish to disregard factors like the influence of Gulf Oil wealth, but it’s hard not to conclude that this state where hammer-and-sickle flags fly in the town squares and old men sit in reading rooms painted with Che Guevara is doing something right. Here is a [handy chart](http://earthtrends.wri.org/text/population-health/datatable-68.html) for comparing health statistics by region. I’d rather be in Cuba than a lot of places. Cuba is the medical powerhouse for much of Central and South America. It’s also doing pretty well on the literacy front. I don’t think this is as much a ringing endorcement for totalitarianism/communism as much as it should be a wake-up call for America. Right now, as an uninsured American citizen, I have less access to health care than a Cuban peasant. Governments can handle health care effectively without stifling progress and it is possible and desireable to distribute access to health care fairly among your citizens. The free market has failed us in the area of health care. It’s time to start looking for solutions. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2004, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-communists-whats-wrong-with-cubas-health-care-system/280547/10 "2004-12-19T02:23:03Z")
[http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:HHeqGfJUe0cJ:www.wola.org/publications/cuba\_myths\_facts.pdf+cuba+spending+GDP+healthcare&hl=en](http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:HHeqGfJUe0cJ:www.wola.org/publications/cuba_myths_facts.pdf+cuba+spending+GDP+healthcare&hl=en) According to that Cuba spends 7% of GDP on healthcare, that is about the same as the UK or Japan. But aside from the standard ‘life expectancy and newborn deaths per 1000’ I can’t find many other stats or stories on cuban healthcare. ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2004, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-communists-whats-wrong-with-cubas-health-care-system/280547/11 "2004-12-19T02:41:08Z")
I think Cuba spends quite some money with healthcare… and I’m glad for them that it works. The problem is the rest of the system that doesn’t work ! Just spotlighting the better part doesn’t mean the system is good overall. I’m a libertarian as well… and it sure is a fine line what government can do better and what private enterprise can do better. Cuba is a skewed example… ---
**Author:** ![rfgdxm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@rfgdxm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rfgdxm)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2004, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-communists-whats-wrong-with-cubas-health-care-system/280547/12 "2004-12-19T03:00:28Z")
> [@Plan B](#): > > So the question is: How good is health care in Cuba these days? Little doubt that I’d have better health care in Cuba than the US. Seriously, the only health care access I have in the US is to go to an emergency room, and after getting health care there throw away the bill, and know I am too poor to sue. Recently I had a nasty infection of my eyelid, and after researching the symptoms on the Internet guessed it was a garden variety hordeola. My boss after noticing it even asked if it was infectious? I answered “no”, and after spouting a lot of medical jargon accepted the answer. ---
**Author:** ![rfgdxm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@rfgdxm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rfgdxm)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2004, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-communists-whats-wrong-with-cubas-health-care-system/280547/13 "2004-12-19T03:13:50Z")
Added: I was right. Nature healed. Personally, I was worried that this might be something life threatening, like cancer. Nice thing based on the medical websites I was just able to “digitally express” this (In layman’s language, squeeze out the puss), and I was healed. Thank goddess while I can’t afford medical care, I have Internet access. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2004, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-communists-whats-wrong-with-cubas-health-care-system/280547/14 "2004-12-19T03:23:23Z")
A few years back, Paul Harvey - a very conservative news commentator at ABC - liked to talk of several cases of Cuban Americans (who are no friends of Castro) that were going back to Cuba to get prompt and affordable health care. Even Paul Harvey sees that the USA can do better regarding the irrational health care that we have.