# anti-farming? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 11, 2000, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-farming/36594 "2000-10-11T20:33:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 3\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![PeeQueue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8797f3/32.png) [@PeeQueue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PeeQueue)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2000, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-farming/36594/41 "2000-10-13T19:11:20Z")
Hey, I’m an idealist too. Don’t get discouraged; it is meaningful to look for alternatives. I do think that your solution is too forced though. Keep in mind that many thousands of people over many thousands of years have been looking for the ultimate solution to the human condition. It would be extremely unlikely to all of a sudden come across it on this message board, which is probably why people are skeptical from the get-go. Also, while I am not 100% for Libertarianism, I do think it offers a well thought out idea with much appeal to people’s natural instincts (which makes it a little more possible). You should take a look into it. (Ok, here comes the anti-Libertarian flames…) PeeQueue ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2000, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-farming/36594/42 "2000-10-13T19:26:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\* > Anyway, I guess I should resign myself to the fact that people would rather keep existing beauracracy rather than have a little vision. \*\* Just keep in mind that people might not agree with your vision or think it is possible. > [@](#): > > \*\* > As I stated before, I don’t have an answer to this dilemma. I don’t understand the need to have power over others. I don’t understand why crimes are committed out of passion. I can’t resolve mental illness. \*\* That assumes mental illness is the root cause of crimes of passion. As to the other crimes I don’t see how we’ll get rid of them. There’s probably always going to be some chump who feels that shaking down people for goods is acceptable. > [@](#): > > \*\* > Well, I thought I did respond by posing the question, “…why would people wish to revert to monetary and stratified systems which prove to be derisive, when, hypothetically, an alternative has been offered which proves to work?” \*\* A lot of things might hypothetically work. Money has been used since the dawn of civilization. I fail to see why anyone would wish to abandon its use. > [@](#): > > \*\* > Anyway, I have grown completely weary of hearing how humanity is hopeless. I am an idealist. I will continue to be so. I hereby withdraw from this thread. \*\* I don’t think humanity is hopeless. I just don’t see anything good about the system you’ve suggested. No money? No social class? Sounds like fantasy land to me. Marc ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2000, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-farming/36594/43 "2000-10-13T19:35:30Z")
Nen, You say you don’t understand crimes of passion? What’s not to understand? Person gets upset, person kills. Person needs control, person rapes. Person desires something, person robs. Person feels wronged, person gets revenge. You might not do it. Your friends and family and your neighbors might not do it. But people do it. Lots of people. They do it every single hour of every single day of every single year _regardless of the legal ramifications._ Imagine what would happen in a world in a state of anarchy. This is what human nature is. No, it’s not perfect, but it’s what human nature is. All animals kill members of their own species from time to time. Maybe they don’t do it as often and maybe their reasons are more justified than ours our, but they do it. Often times killing cannot be rationalized and often times you can’t understand any particular reason for a crime being committed, but as a whole it can be summed up as: that’s what human nature is. That you have to understand. Because while individual humans can be changed, it would take a massive effort to change human nature. Your system boils down to this: If we could just change human nature my idea would work. Look, if I could start with the assumption that I could change human nature, ANY system I thought of would work. The thing is, if I could pick any utopian system in which to live, yours probably wouldn’t be high up on my list. I admire your belief that the world is flawed and you’re thinking of ways to change it for the better. You’re right about one thing. If we could change human nature for the better we would no longer need government because everyone would act in the best interest of society. But that’s not the way it works right now. So you have two options: 1)develop a system that acknowledges that humans are humans and works within those flawed limitations, or 2) Think of the steps needed to make all humans better. If you skip that step, and go right to the conclusion, you’ll end up nowhere. Your Utopian fantasy will be just that, a fantasy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-farming/36594.md?page=2)