# Anti-gay Christians are merely bigots **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 10, 2015, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gay-christians-are-merely-bigots/724810 "2015-07-10T22:26:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![ICanOnlyTryMyBest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/71c47a/32.png) [@ICanOnlyTryMyBest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ICanOnlyTryMyBest)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gay-christians-are-merely-bigots/724810/381 "2015-07-23T20:59:46Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > No, it doesn’t. It deliberately excludes several other possibilities, such as that Jesus might have been a man, like most others, trying to communicate his moral values in a very tough century in a rough part of the world. He could have been right about some things, and wrong about others, while being none of “liar, Lord, or lunatic.” > > “What’s two plus two – and only a liar or a lunatic would say four.” If that was the case then He might have been the most stubborn person ever born. Though it would be odd that His stubbornness manifested during times of excruciating torture and not His day to day living. Jesus clearly stated that He was God, the Jews even charged Him with this crime, blasphemy. So, going back to the L-L-L argument, He was either crazy or a liar if He was not God. History point that He was neither, thus my only conclusion is Lord. I suggest we move back to the homosexuality topic, I am not trying to debate anyone into believing in Christ, though I wish I could. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![ICanOnlyTryMyBest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/71c47a/32.png) [@ICanOnlyTryMyBest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ICanOnlyTryMyBest)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gay-christians-are-merely-bigots/724810/382 "2015-07-23T21:02:45Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > You find me a talking fetus, and we can discuss it. Here is one communicating. Surely voice isn’t a requirement for life, I’d hate to think that my friends who are mute are now targets of euthanasia. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/mR6POuFfFNU/maxresdefault.jpg "Clap your hands, baby announcement.") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mR6POuFfFNU) ---
**Author:** ![Hiker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3be4f8/32.png) [@Hiker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hiker)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gay-christians-are-merely-bigots/724810/383 "2015-07-23T21:03:22Z")
> [@Learjeff](#): > > What’s the rule for what to ignore versus what to heed? > > IMHO, the reason isn’t scripture, it’s tradition. Plus, “ick”. That’s why I say the cause is prejudice, not scripture. Tradition for most. The “ick” factor for some. But also still for many: Scripture. It is my impression that many of the faithful do not interpret the Bible for themselves but rather follow an interpretation that is handed out to them within their congregation. So they do not intentionally leave out some of the laws while following others. They follow what they have been taught to consider as important or relevant. I think it is a misunderstanding when Christians say “I follow the Bible”, when in truth they are following an interpretation of it. But bigotry? I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gay-christians-are-merely-bigots/724810/384 "2015-07-23T21:04:23Z")
> [@ICanOnlyTryMyBest](#): > > No, I agree with you that it harms the child and that it is wrong. I am just trending depravity and trying to show that the line of what is right and what is wrong becomes more blurry once you lower the standard. That is what is known as a straw man argument in which you pretend that your opponent has said something and then “prove” that the statement is wrong when your opponent has said no such thing. You are better off avoiding such bad logic in this forum. As to lowering standards: I would say that we have raised them. Rules against homosexuality were the harsh logic of a pastoral society, (in which procreation through a single method was a necessity to preserve society). Rather than imposing that logic onto a society in which procreation has become something that may be chosen or rejected both within and without sexual relations, we accept that humans may demonstrate love in various ways, choosing or not choosing to create a next generation to demonstrate their love. That seems to be a higher standard to me, in that it does not require procreation to demonstrate love or compel the procreation of unloved children. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gay-christians-are-merely-bigots/724810/385 "2015-07-23T21:12:49Z")
[quote=“ICanOnlyTryMyBest, post:382, topic:724810”] Here is one communicating. Surely voice isn’t a requirement for life, I’d hate to think that my friends who are mute are now targets of euthanasia. [/QUOTE] How is that an example of communication? What is it communicating? Who is it communicating with? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gay-christians-are-merely-bigots/724810/386 "2015-07-23T21:15:28Z")
[quote=“ICanOnlyTryMyBest, post:382, topic:724810”] Here is one communicating. Surely voice isn’t a requirement for life, I’d hate to think that my friends who are mute are now targets of euthanasia. [/QUOTE] [Mostly false.](http://www.snopes.com/photos/medical/clappingbaby.asp) > [@](#): > > So, this video does not really show an unborn child clapping along to its mother’s singing while inside the womb. What it does apparently show is a singular movement which has been edited to make it look as if you’re a fetus and you know it, you’ll clap your hands. ---
**Author:** ![Hiker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3be4f8/32.png) [@Hiker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hiker)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gay-christians-are-merely-bigots/724810/387 "2015-07-23T21:16:44Z")
> [@ICanOnlyTryMyBest](#): > > Isn’t that a little harsh? We’re not talking about carrying groceries or a wearing a uniform, we’re talking about an innocent life. Doesn’t the unborn child have a right to voice their opinion on whether to be born or killed? > > We talk about a child and an adult having an affair as being wrong because the child is not in an emotional position to prepare themselves for that kind of relationship; is the fetus excluded from protection as well? > > I am not against women’s rights, but I believe their are alternatives. I have an adopted child and know first hand the joy of what these kind of alternatives can bring. I was going to answer to that, but I realized that we are about to derail Learjeff’s thread (again). Abortion is a difficult topic. But if you want to have a debate about it, open a thread. I’ll try to offer my five cents. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gay-christians-are-merely-bigots/724810/388 "2015-07-23T21:28:13Z")
[quote=“ICanOnlyTryMyBest, post:382, topic:724810”] Here is one communicating. Surely voice isn’t a requirement for life, I’d hate to think that my friends who are mute are now targets of euthanasia. [/QUOTE] Now that you know the real story, will you tell others? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gay-christians-are-merely-bigots/724810/389 "2015-07-23T21:51:11Z")
> [@Dhammyjhay](#): > > Lotta haters hating on my previous post… Well, the truth is a bitter pill to swallow… Nd i couldn’t help but wonder; how does the concept of a gay marriage look nd sound right to you guys… As far as i’m concerned, even if the bible didn’t clearly lead us to know that ‘gay marriage’ is wrong (which it did), our sense of knowing whats morally right nd acceptable should tell us that ‘gay marriage’ is wrong… This is just the devil playing on our (specifically your) ignorance… First, if you can demonstrate the existence of any god, please do so. Then you can demonstrate that this god has anything to do with your Bible. Then you can talk to the many Christians and Jews who support SSM. Including ministers who are better theologically trained than you are. My sense of what is right and acceptable tells me that gay marriage is right. Have you ever met any gay people (especially ones not self-hating?) Have you seen them love one another? Why are you against true love? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gay-christians-are-merely-bigots/724810/390 "2015-07-23T21:57:52Z")
> [@ICanOnlyTryMyBest](#): > > What makes less sense to you, that God created the world in 6 days and rested on the 7th or that a God-man came down and died on a cross and rose from the dead? > > As a Christian if I believe in the later, for me it make most sense that I believe in the former. Have you read C.S. Lewis’ - Lord, Liar, Lunatic argument? > [Lord, Liar, Lunatic, or Legend? | Evidence Unseen](http://www.evidenceunseen.com/theology/lord-liar-lunatic-or-legend/) > > I’m interested in what you think. We don’t know enough about the real Jesus to know if it is liar, lunatic, or misquoted. You realize that for the most part the people around Jerusalem at the time didn’t seem to buy Jesus at all, and that Christians succeeded far better in converting those far from the scene. After all, Jesus did not fulfill the actual Messianic prophecies. Except one that got created from a mistranslation (virgin birth.) They retconned him into being born in Bethlehem, and the prophecies did not say the Messiah was going to get caught and killed right after hitting the big time. As for him returning - I expect to see the Last Dangerous Visions before Jesus. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gay-christians-are-merely-bigots/724810/391 "2015-07-23T22:16:53Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > As for him returning - I expect to see the Last Dangerous Visions before Jesus. Buuuuuurrrnnn! I like it… ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gay-christians-are-merely-bigots/724810/392 "2015-07-24T00:18:31Z")
> [@ICanOnlyTryMyBest](#): > > Here is one communicating. Surely voice isn’t a requirement for life, I’d hate to think that my friends who are mute are now targets of euthanasia. Voice isn’t a requirement, but breathing air is. Your Bible tells you that Adam, even though he had a fully formed adult body, became a living soul only after he began breathing. As for the “Lord, Liar, or Lunatic” question, the obvious answer is, “Legend.” Jesus left no writings. All we know (with very minor exceptions, and certainly regarding what he allegedly said) is what his worshippers wrote about him. You know who else got very good press from his devoted followers? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gay-christians-are-merely-bigots/724810/393 "2015-07-24T00:49:49Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > You know who else got very good press from his devoted followers? Donald Trump? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gay-christians-are-merely-bigots/724810/394 "2015-07-24T01:28:32Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > As for the “Lord, Liar, or Lunatic” question, the obvious answer is, “Legend.” My personal favorite is still the bit where Mary says she’s a virgin pregnant with the Son of God, and Joseph – reacts with skepticism and thoughts of divorce. But then he winds up doing an about-face and believing her, because an angel tells him so. Which makes sense, right? What makes Joseph’s tale weird is that an angel tells him what’s what _in a dream,_ and he promptly reacts as if he’d been visited by an angel _in real life_. So the only way his story makes sense is if folks back then thought _well, yeah; if an angel visits you in a dream, that’s totally just as convincing as an angel visiting you in real life._ Joseph supposedly had a dream where an angel said JESUS IS LORD; we’re told how he reacted. If Jesus had a dream where an angel said JESUS IS LORD – well, he wouldn’t be a Lunatic for believing it; folks back then believed angels who said stuff in dreams. So he wouldn’t be a Liar for saying it, because he’d honestly believe it. But that wouldn’t mean he’s the Lord; it’d mean he had a dream, and reacted like Joseph did. According to the Bible, folks back then had some _weeeeeeeird_ beliefs about dreams. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gay-christians-are-merely-bigots/724810/395 "2015-07-24T01:34:05Z")
> [@Dhammyjhay](#): > > Lotta haters hating on my previous post… Well, the truth is a bitter pill to swallow… Nd i couldn’t help but wonder; how does the concept of a gay marriage look nd sound right to you guys… As far as i’m concerned, even if the bible didn’t clearly lead us to know that ‘gay marriage’ is wrong (which it did), our sense of knowing whats morally right nd acceptable should tell us that ‘gay marriage’ is wrong… This is just the devil playing on our (specifically your) ignorance… Nah, the only thing in your post that merited any hatred was your insistence on writing “nd” to represent the word “and.” 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gay-christians-are-merely-bigots/724810/396 "2015-07-24T03:14:18Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > . . . As for the “Lord, Liar, or Lunatic” question, the obvious answer is, “Legend.” . . . That’s pretty! Thank you! Not only is it a really good answer, it also 'lows for 'literation! ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gay-christians-are-merely-bigots/724810/397 "2015-07-24T06:51:48Z")
> [@Dhammyjhay](#): > > Lotta haters hating on my previous post… Well, the truth is a bitter pill to swallow… Nd i couldn’t help but wonder; how does the concept of a gay marriage look nd sound right to you guys… As far as i’m concerned, even if the bible didn’t clearly lead us to know that ‘gay marriage’ is wrong (which it did), our sense of knowing whats morally right nd acceptable should tell us that ‘gay marriage’ is wrong… This is just the devil playing on our (specifically your) ignorance… So when you know something, you know it, but when someone else claims to know something that disagrees with you, it’s the Devil misleading them. Right. How can you know for sure that you are not the one being deceived? ---
**Author:** ![ICanOnlyTryMyBest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/71c47a/32.png) [@ICanOnlyTryMyBest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ICanOnlyTryMyBest)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gay-christians-are-merely-bigots/724810/398 "2015-07-24T13:27:25Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > That’s pretty! Thank you! Not only is it a really good answer, it also 'lows for 'literation! I must give you credit for your witty response, nonetheless the boolean logic of the LLL argument does not support it. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gay-christians-are-merely-bigots/724810/399 "2015-07-24T13:28:18Z")
> [@ICanOnlyTryMyBest](#): > > There is a new problem in America which is causing countless deaths, it is called Texting and Driving. Do you have any stats on the number of deaths caused by homosexuality? I’m genuinely curious. ---
**Author:** ![TennisMenace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f05b48/32.png) [@TennisMenace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TennisMenace)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gay-christians-are-merely-bigots/724810/400 "2015-07-24T13:38:14Z")
> [@Dhammyjhay](#): > > Lotta haters hating on my previous post… Well, the truth is a bitter pill to swallow… Nd i couldn’t help but wonder; how does the concept of a gay marriage look nd sound right to you guys… As far as i’m concerned, even if the bible didn’t clearly lead us to know that ‘gay marriage’ is wrong (which it did), our sense of knowing whats morally right nd acceptable should tell us that ‘gay marriage’ is wrong… This is just the devil playing on our (specifically your) ignorance… Dhammy, I have to be honest with you here- this post of yours makes even me feel uncomfortable and I am a believer in Christ as Lord and Savior too. We ALL do morally wrong things, don’t we? That is why people like you and I believe in Christ’s atonement at Calvary. I’m sure there are more people who commit the crime of fornication, stealing, lying, greed, pride, and covetousness than homosexuality. How come there isn’t a movement to rid society of these sins? Do you get my point? People are throwing rocks at people because of the sins they see them committing (homosexuality) while secretly hanging on to their own, which may be far worse. Is that too just the devil playing on “specifically your” ignorance for committing all those sins I mentioned above? TM [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gay-christians-are-merely-bigots/724810.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gay-christians-are-merely-bigots/724810.md?page=21)