# Anti-gay Christians are merely bigots **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 10, 2015, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gay-christians-are-merely-bigots/724810 "2015-07-10T22:26:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gay-christians-are-merely-bigots/724810/401 "2015-07-24T13:40:57Z")
> [@ICanOnlyTryMyBest](#): > > There is a new problem in America which is causing countless deaths, it is called Texting and Driving. [Not really countless.](http://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/distracted_driving/) Note:this is all forms of distracted driving. > [@](#): > > ``` > In 2012, 3,328 people were killed in crashes involving a distracted driver, compared to 3,360 in 2011. An additional, 421,000 people were injured in motor vehicle crashes involving a distracted driver in 2012, a 9% increase from the 387,000 people injured in 2011. > In 2011, nearly one in five crashes (17%) in which someone was injured involved distracted driving. > In December 2012, more than 171 billion text messages were sent or received in the US.1 > > ``` ---
**Author:** ![ICanOnlyTryMyBest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/71c47a/32.png) [@ICanOnlyTryMyBest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ICanOnlyTryMyBest)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gay-christians-are-merely-bigots/724810/402 "2015-07-24T13:46:52Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Do you have any stats on the number of deaths caused by homosexuality? I’m genuinely curious. Is death the only measure of right or wrong? That is the no harm no foul philosophy, shouldn’t sports adopt a similar approach and only throw a flag or blow a whistle when it leads to injury? Or, should sports protect the rules of the game and maintain a high standard. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gay-christians-are-merely-bigots/724810/403 "2015-07-24T13:53:27Z")
> [@ICanOnlyTryMyBest](#): > > Is death the only measure of right or wrong? That is the no harm no foul philosophy, shouldn’t sports adopt a similar approach and only throw a flag or blow a whistle when it leads to injury? Or, should sports protect the rules of the game and maintain a high standard. Well, maybe it’s not the only measure, but in that case, maybe you should pick some better examples for post #351. Would you like to try again? ---
**Author:** ![ICanOnlyTryMyBest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/71c47a/32.png) [@ICanOnlyTryMyBest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ICanOnlyTryMyBest)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gay-christians-are-merely-bigots/724810/404 "2015-07-24T14:02:39Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Well, maybe it’s not the only measure, but in that case, maybe you should pick some better examples for post #351. Would you like to try again? No thank you. The message I was trying to covey was that moral judgements are already creating laws. This was the the idea which was being argued that my faith is doing at which the responder felt was wrong for society. ---
**Author:** ![ICanOnlyTryMyBest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/71c47a/32.png) [@ICanOnlyTryMyBest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ICanOnlyTryMyBest)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gay-christians-are-merely-bigots/724810/405 "2015-07-24T14:08:35Z")
So let me twist the post around and ask a question. I am a Christian and I feel homosexuality is wrong. I do not hate homosexuals. I will not treat them different. I will not gossip or talk of them any different than I talk of myself (a sinner). Does this make me a bigot or does this forum make me the victim? I mean this sincerely. I have a standard and you have a standard; and they are not the same. Is one right and the other wrong? Could they both be right? Could they both be wrong? Who determines who is right and who is wrong? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gay-christians-are-merely-bigots/724810/406 "2015-07-24T14:54:14Z")
> [@ICanOnlyTryMyBest](#): > > Who determines who is right and who is wrong? Which group is fighting against the rights of the other? Which side is saying the other side is sinful for loving each other? edited to add: The thing is, if same sex couples have equal rights, you still get to keep _your_ standards. ---
**Author:** ![ICanOnlyTryMyBest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/71c47a/32.png) [@ICanOnlyTryMyBest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ICanOnlyTryMyBest)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gay-christians-are-merely-bigots/724810/407 "2015-07-24T15:08:21Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > The thing is, if same sex couples have equal rights, you still get to keep _your_ standards. You make a valid point. My standards, as govern by the Bible, will not change based on the law of the land. I don’t desire to fight or sound offensive, we just believe differently and that is what it is. I appreciate your challenges and hear them; out of respect I only ask that you reciprocate. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gay-christians-are-merely-bigots/724810/408 "2015-07-24T15:33:21Z")
> [@ICanOnlyTryMyBest](#): > > I must give you credit for your witty response, nonetheless the boolean logic of the LLL argument does not support it. That’s not Boolean logic; if those are the only three options to choose from, it’s a false trilemma since there are clearly other options. In fact, this particular one is known as [Lewis’s trilemma](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis%27s_trilemma), and the logical fallacies inherent therein have been well-hashed out. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gay-christians-are-merely-bigots/724810/409 "2015-07-24T15:35:41Z")
> [@ICanOnlyTryMyBest](#): > > You make a valid point. My standards, as govern by the Bible, will not change based on the law of the land. > > I don’t desire to fight or sound offensive, we just believe differently and that is what it is. I appreciate your challenges and hear them; out of respect I only ask that you reciprocate. 🙂 Do you have anything to say about the revelation concerning the video you posted? ---
**Author:** ![ICanOnlyTryMyBest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/71c47a/32.png) [@ICanOnlyTryMyBest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ICanOnlyTryMyBest)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gay-christians-are-merely-bigots/724810/410 "2015-07-24T15:48:53Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Do you have anything to say about the revelation concerning the video you posted? Yes, thank you. I found out later that the video was a not 100% accurate. It doesn’t change my view and communication does not require a verbal exchange, but the example I used was invalid. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gay-christians-are-merely-bigots/724810/411 "2015-07-24T15:59:35Z")
> [@ICanOnlyTryMyBest](#): > > Yes, thank you. I found out later that the video was a not 100% accurate. It doesn’t change my view and communication does not require a verbal exchange, but the example I used was invalid. The video was not 100% accurate? The video was deliberately _misleading_. You say that this does not change your view-does this mean that it did not influence your view in the first place? If so, Why would you expect it to influence someone else’s? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gay-christians-are-merely-bigots/724810/412 "2015-07-24T16:12:56Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > The video was not 100% accurate? The video was deliberately _misleading_. > You say that this does not change your view-does this mean that it did not influence your view in the first place? If so, Why would you expect it to influence someone else’s? Because it would have _supported_ his position. It would have given it _more_ weight. Could you really have not figured that out on your own? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gay-christians-are-merely-bigots/724810/413 "2015-07-24T16:26:43Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Because it would have _supported_ his position. It would have given it _more_ weight. > > Could you really have not figured that out on your own? I’m sure he can speak for himself, and I wouldn’t mind knowing what evidence supports his position now, or if it is an evidence-supported position at all and not one based on faith. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gay-christians-are-merely-bigots/724810/414 "2015-07-24T16:36:11Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I’m sure he can speak for himself, and I wouldn’t mind knowing what evidence supports his position now, or if it is an evidence-supported position at all and not one based on faith. That’s fair. Maybe you should have typed that instead of what you did type, as that is not what you asked. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gay-christians-are-merely-bigots/724810/415 "2015-07-24T16:45:24Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > That’s fair. Maybe you should have typed that instead of what you did type, as that is not what you asked. Note the word “and” in your quote of my post. It denotes that, not only would I like an answer to the question I asked, but that I wouldn’t mind answers to an additional followup or two. ---
**Author:** ![ICanOnlyTryMyBest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/71c47a/32.png) [@ICanOnlyTryMyBest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ICanOnlyTryMyBest)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gay-christians-are-merely-bigots/724810/416 "2015-07-24T17:24:17Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I wouldn’t mind knowing what evidence supports his position now, or if it is an evidence-supported position at all and not one based on faith. If the evidence you are referencing is in relation to abortion, wouldn’t life itself be the answer? Don’t assume the privilege of the life you assume is equally granted to those who are less vocal. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gay-christians-are-merely-bigots/724810/417 "2015-07-24T17:39:54Z")
> [@ICanOnlyTryMyBest](#): > > I must give you credit for your witty response, nonetheless the boolean logic of the LLL argument does not support it. Which merely indicates the error of the LLL argument. The LLL argument is predicated on the belief that we have an accurate recording of the words of Jesus. However, if the followers of Jesus, writing 40 to 80 years after his time on earth did not correctly reproduce his actual words, then all we have is the legend of what he said as written by his followers. Jesus may have said exactly what he is quoted as having said. Jesus may not have said those statements which were attributed to him by others who wanted to grant him greater status. Jesus may have been an invention, in whole or in part, by people who were looking to place a human, (or human and divine), face on beliefs that they were propagating. In only one of those situations does the LLL argument even apply. ---
**Author:** ![ICanOnlyTryMyBest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/71c47a/32.png) [@ICanOnlyTryMyBest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ICanOnlyTryMyBest)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gay-christians-are-merely-bigots/724810/418 "2015-07-24T17:48:42Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Which merely indicates the error of the LLL argument. The LLL argument is predicated on the belief that we have an accurate recording of the words of Jesus. However, if the followers of Jesus, writing 40 to 80 years after his time on earth did not correctly reproduce his actual words, then all we have is the legend of what he said as written by his followers. So it goes back to the authority on which you base your standards. I believe the Bible is an authority while others might not. I have said my peace and I thank everyone for listening and chiming in, now I must move on. I say a final prayer for everyone here, that God would either open their eyes if they are wrong or He would do the same for me if I am in error. I do not claim to be infallible, but I do claim to be a follower of Jesus Christ whom I feel is. God Bless and may truth, however that is defined, be protected and honored. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gay-christians-are-merely-bigots/724810/419 "2015-07-24T17:51:46Z")
> [@ICanOnlyTryMyBest](#): > > So it goes back to the authority on which you base your standards. I believe the Bible is an authority while others might not. > > I have said my peace and I thank everyone for listening and chiming in, now I must move on. > > I say a final prayer for everyone here, that God would either open their eyes if they are wrong or He would do the same for me if I am in error. > > I do not claim to be infallible, but I do claim to be a follower of Jesus Christ whom I feel is. God Bless and may truth, however that is defined, be protected and honored. Any revelations I receive will be through the acquisition of further knowledge from outside _corporeal_ sources. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gay-christians-are-merely-bigots/724810/420 "2015-07-24T20:20:39Z")
> [@ICanOnlyTryMyBest](#): > > I must give you credit for your witty response, nonetheless the boolean logic of the LLL argument does not support it. You’re absolutely wrong. The LLL argument is fatally flawed, and the introduction of a new term to it fixes it, by allowing the factually true choice to be available. Otherward, “What’s the capital of Alaska: Nome, Seward, or Anchorage?” The question can’t be answered correctly. C.S. Lewis derived the LLL false trilemma in order to try to deny people the ability to say, “Jesus was a wise teacher, a good man, a visionary with an admirable moral insight.” Lewis shouts this down. But he does so by falsely narrowing the choices, very specifically to leave out that form of non-theistic admiration. It’s solely goal-oriented logic-chopping, and it’s fallacious. If you want to discuss this further, may I recommend another thread? This highjack may not be appropriate. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gay-christians-are-merely-bigots/724810.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gay-christians-are-merely-bigots/724810.md?page=22)