# Anti-gay scouting parents pulling kids from Boy Scouts. Where will they go? Is there an alternative? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 31, 2013, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gay-scouting-parents-pulling-kids-from-boy-scouts-where-will-they-go-is-there-an-alternative/659795 "2013-05-31T16:47:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2013, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gay-scouting-parents-pulling-kids-from-boy-scouts-where-will-they-go-is-there-an-alternative/659795/21 "2013-05-31T21:50:46Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Is that a direct response to the BSA letting gay kids in? Yes. Once the results of the vote were made, the Pastor informed us that they might not recharter this Fall. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2013, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gay-scouting-parents-pulling-kids-from-boy-scouts-where-will-they-go-is-there-an-alternative/659795/22 "2013-05-31T21:57:43Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Watch me cry you a river. Girl Scouts lost access to schools over the Boy Scouts discrimination policy - we can’t book school rooms because its “easier” - they can’t allow Boy Scouts to book because they were (and still are) discriminatory - but lumped us in with them. > > But because Girl Scouts are a front for the pro-abortion forces of Planned Parenthood and has an agenda of turning girls into Lesbian Warriors for the militant arm of NOW, often church doors are closed as well to troops. > > Girls meet in my basement. The Service Unit stuff is in my basement. Its less than ideal, but it is what it is. Thats nice. I have 75 boys in my Troop (ranging in age from 11 - 17), and all of the gear needed to take them and more camping. Boy Scout Troops are very different from Girl Scout Troops - this is WHY a place to meet and store gear can be a limiting factor to growth. If your local schools are banning Scouts from the public schools, they could be in for a lawsuit under No Child Left Behind. Our Pack (chartered by a different org) meets at the local Public School. > **[Boy Scouts of America Equal Access Act](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boy_Scouts_of_America_Equal_Access_Act)** > > The Boy Scouts of America Equal Access Act was passed to prevent State and Federal agencies from reducing their support for the Boy Scouts of America (and other youth organizations) based on their policies. The bill was passed in the wake of a number of controversies involving the Boy Scouts of America, such as their exclusion of gay people and atheists, and subsequent attempts to limit government support of the organization. > In particular, the bill states that no school receiving Department of... > [@](#): > > no school receiving Department of Education funds: > shall deny equal access or a fair opportunity to meet to, or discriminate against, any group officially affiliated with the Boy Scouts of America, or any other youth group listed in title 36 of the United States Code (as a patriotic society), that wishes to conduct a meeting within that designated open forum or limited public forum, including denying such access or opportunity or discriminating for reasons based on the membership or leadership criteria or oath of allegiance to God and country of the Boy Scouts of America or of the youth group listed in title 36 of the United States Code (as a patriotic society). Now if they ban EVERYONE from meeting, then they can get away with it. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2013, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gay-scouting-parents-pulling-kids-from-boy-scouts-where-will-they-go-is-there-an-alternative/659795/23 "2013-05-31T22:03:36Z")
Can’t you just find a church not run by arseholes? This is America. There’s a church every eight feet. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2013, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gay-scouting-parents-pulling-kids-from-boy-scouts-where-will-they-go-is-there-an-alternative/659795/24 "2013-05-31T22:14:00Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Can’t you just find a church not run by arseholes? This is America. There’s a church every eight feet. Yes - looking into options already. It really is the storage AND meeting place issue. Plus the BSA is still half bigoted on this one - since they don’t allow adults. My church, for example, is a possibility - but the adult gay members will have to be sold. I plan on talking to a few people on Sunday about this. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2013, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gay-scouting-parents-pulling-kids-from-boy-scouts-where-will-they-go-is-there-an-alternative/659795/25 "2013-05-31T22:26:07Z")
Oh, I see. Good luck! ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2013, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gay-scouting-parents-pulling-kids-from-boy-scouts-where-will-they-go-is-there-an-alternative/659795/26 "2013-05-31T22:27:17Z")
> [@shiftless](#): > > What exactly is “Christlike living with boys?” Ask [**the Christian Brothers**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Cashel_Orphanage). ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2013, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gay-scouting-parents-pulling-kids-from-boy-scouts-where-will-they-go-is-there-an-alternative/659795/27 "2013-05-31T22:30:35Z")
How much would commercial storage cost for the gear? Not a great solution by any means, but some fundraising or extra voluntary dues might be enough to cover it. At least as a short term solution. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2013, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gay-scouting-parents-pulling-kids-from-boy-scouts-where-will-they-go-is-there-an-alternative/659795/28 "2013-05-31T22:31:52Z")
> [@Kenm](#): > > Ask [**the Christian Brothers**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Cashel_Orphanage). Wait, so they abuse boys _and_ make bourbon? ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2013, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gay-scouting-parents-pulling-kids-from-boy-scouts-where-will-they-go-is-there-an-alternative/659795/29 "2013-05-31T22:59:32Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > Now if they ban EVERYONE from meeting, then they can get away with it. Which is what they’ve done. Because by Minnesota State law, they cannot provide accommodation to discriminatory organizations - so no one gets to meet in schools. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2013, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gay-scouting-parents-pulling-kids-from-boy-scouts-where-will-they-go-is-there-an-alternative/659795/30 "2013-05-31T23:24:09Z")
The problem is the half measure. Enough to piss off those who will take what is _to them_ a principled stance by leaing the organization or refusing to let their kids join - just like we took our kid out and as a community were kicked out (and formed a Camp Fire Boys pack) [twelve years ago](http://www.scoutingforall.org/data/layer02/aaic/030101.html). But not enough to make the organization inclusive enough to the rest of us. Yes, what will happen is evolutionary. Those whose principles include viewing homosexuality as evil will now slowly be less common and the concept of accepting gays more normalized - in a few years the next step will happen. But meanwhile they will whither a bit I’d think. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2013, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gay-scouting-parents-pulling-kids-from-boy-scouts-where-will-they-go-is-there-an-alternative/659795/31 "2013-05-31T23:27:25Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Which is what they’ve done. Because by Minnesota State law, they cannot provide accommodation to discriminatory organizations - so no one gets to meet in schools. Is your local council the Northern Star? They are the largest in Minnesota and had previously pubilcly stated that they [would go aganst the BSA anti-gay ruling .](http://www.startribune.com/local/west/162817346.html).. seems silly to have done that against them. ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2013, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gay-scouting-parents-pulling-kids-from-boy-scouts-where-will-they-go-is-there-an-alternative/659795/32 "2013-06-01T03:15:16Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Yes, what will happen is evolutionary. Those whose principles include viewing homosexuality as evil will now slowly be less common and the concept of accepting gays more normalized - in a few years the next step will happen. But meanwhile they will whither a bit I’d think. They’ve been withering for a while. The peak BSA membership (by this I mean packs, troops, and crews, and exclude exploring and Learning for Life, which are really only tangentially related to BSA as a whole), was in the late 1980s. Since _Dale v BSA_, membership is down by over 25%. I’ve heard some chatter (nothing official), that part of the vote was realizing they were limiting future membership, so better to take the hit now and hope people start coming back. To some extent, the next vote will be easier, because the hardcore anti-gay crowd will leave now, and therefore there will be a less vocal opposition when the ban on gay adults is discussed in a few years. ---
**Author:** ![yams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/848f3c/32.png) [@yams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yams)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2013, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gay-scouting-parents-pulling-kids-from-boy-scouts-where-will-they-go-is-there-an-alternative/659795/33 "2013-06-01T04:21:40Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > Thats nice. I have 75 boys in my Troop (ranging in age from 11 - 17), and all of the gear needed to take them and more camping. Boy Scout Troops are very different from Girl Scout Troops - this is WHY a place to meet and store gear can be a limiting factor to growth. Can you explain how they are different? Is it because of troop size, or activities, or what? Aside from my yearly cookie binge, I don’t have a lot of contact with scouts of either kind, and had thought that Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts were basically genderized versions of the same thing. love yams!! ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2013, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gay-scouting-parents-pulling-kids-from-boy-scouts-where-will-they-go-is-there-an-alternative/659795/34 "2013-06-01T12:30:39Z")
I am an Eagle Scout and have had essentially no contact with the GSUSA. However, I do remember looking at a GSUSA handbook once for some of their badges and thinking that they generally looked much simpler than what I was doing at the time. (I was probably 16 or so at the time, so I could easily have been both arrogant and wrong.) BSA is still, even with all the other optional merit badges in any number of subjects, mostly about camping and hiking and other physical activities as well as things like first aid and citizenship. BSA facilities include Philmont in New Mexico, the Northern Tier in Minnesota/Canada, and the Florida Sea Base in the Keys. My troop did far too much of the car camping that **Algher** mentions and we were a very large troop (as large or larger than his) with a ton of gear. We took a pretty large space in the basement of our sponsoring church with all this gear. Moving everything for our week-long summer trip took us about two hours to move everything to the parking lot and load it into a rental truck. I probably went on eight or ten weekend trips a year plus the summer trip. There was also a yearly 50-mile hike (over Spring Break, which was easy to coordinate since it was one giant school district) and generally a yearly (or every couple years) trip to Philmont in the summer and also sometimes one of the weekend trips there in the winter (one of the benefits of only being a few hours drive from Philmont.) BSA has a lot of problems right now, most of them self-inflicted, and they could really learn from the GSUSA on how to actually run their national organization. The people I’ve known who have been in Scouting for a very long time (both as boys and then as adults) have tended to blame National in Texas and the very strong Mormon influence over the last couple of decades. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2013, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gay-scouting-parents-pulling-kids-from-boy-scouts-where-will-they-go-is-there-an-alternative/659795/35 "2013-06-01T13:33:46Z")
One thing I think BSA has that no other organization has is the legacy of adults willing and able to dedicate time and energy to the organization long after their own kids have left. There are tons of third-generation Eagle scouts out there, and scouting families keep contributing: unlike most youth activities, it’s not something you quit just because your own kids have aged out–or lost interest. These people provide a tremendous amount of administrative, managerial, and financial support for the organization. Of course, some of those will be the ones that leave, but whatever organizations arise will not have the institutional memory to harness that as effectively. I think of my uncle: he was an Eagle scout, his sons were both Eagle scouts, he’s been involved in the organization on all levels for over half a century. When his kids aged out but he was still working, because he knew the organization so well and understood its needs, he was able to find places that he could help that exactly matched the amount of time and effort he was willing to contribute–and he knew who to talk to to take on those responsibilities. Then, when he retired and had more time, he had been around long enough to know what additional things needed doing for the local council and how to step up for those. And, in the fullness of time, when he needs to step back, he will have enough ownership of the things he does and know enough people that he will make sure to pass those tasks off to other competent, willing volunteers. There are thousands of people like my uncle, who all contribute maybe 200-500 hours a year. They make the organization possible. That sort of organizational inertia is very hard to get going, and gives BSA a huge advantage over other groups. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gay-scouting-parents-pulling-kids-from-boy-scouts-where-will-they-go-is-there-an-alternative/659795.md?page=1)