# Anti-Gravity in The Himalayas **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 21, 2002, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gravity-in-the-himalayas/144250 "2002-12-21T19:01:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Kriss](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kriss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kriss)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gravity-in-the-himalayas/144250/1 "2002-12-21T19:01:19Z")
I downloaded this from MIRC and was curious to know if this can really happen and is accurate ## Anti-Gravity in The Himalayas Anti-Gravity in The Himalayas Ville V Walveranta ([wil@funet.com](mailto:wil@funet.com)) 26 Jan 94 writes: Phasing macro-scale gravity-waves with Sound Well folks, after seeing an “antigravity” sound device presented on CNN Science news, a few memory cells were stimulated & I dug up an old book. The book is THE BRIDGE TO INFINITY - HARMONIC 371299 by Bruce Cathe. It was published in 1983 by Quark Enterprises Limited, 158 Shaw Road, Oratia, Auckland and Brookfield Press, P.O. Box 1201, Auckland, New Zealand. This guy may or may not fit the Yorkian mold but due to recent developments I think what he brought up back then may have some small merit. I leave it to you to judge and I hope this may stimulate a few threads. Exerts from pages 139 - 146: THE SECRETS OF LEVITATION A New Zealand scientist recently gave me an intriguing extract from an article published in a German magazine, relating to a demonstration of levitation in Tibet. After obtaining a translation by a German journalist, in English, I was amazed at the information contained in the story, and was surprised that the article had slipped through the suppression net which tends to keep such knowledge from leaking out to the public. All the similar types of stories that I had read up until now were generally devoid of specific information necessary to prove the veracity of the account. In this case a full set of geometric measurements were taken, and I discovered, to my great delight, that when they were converted into their equivalent geodetic measures, relating to grid harmonics the values gave a direct association with those in the unified harmonic equations published in my earlier works. The following extracts are translations taken from the German article: 'We know from the priests of the far east that they were able to lift heavy boulders up high mountains with the help of groups of various sounds … The knowledge of the various vibrations in the audio range demonstrates to a scientist of physics that a vibrating and condensed sound field can nullify the power of gravitation. Swedish engineer Olaf Alexanderson wrote about this phenomenon in the publication, Implosion No. 13. The following report is based on observations which were made only 20 years ago in Tibet. I have this report from civil engineer and flight manager, Henry Kjelson, a friend of mine. He later on included this report in his book The Lost Techniques. This is his report: A Swedish doctor, Dr Jarl, a friend of Kjelsons, studied at Oxford. During those times he became friends with a young Tibetan student. A couple of years later, it was 1939, Dr Jarl made a journey to Egypt for the English Scientific Society. There he was seen by a messenger of his Tibetan friend, and urgently requested to come to Tibet to treat a high Lama. After Dr Jarl got the leave he followed the messenger and arrived after a long journey by plane and Yak caravans, at the monastery, where the old Lama and his friend who was now holding a high position were now living. Dr Jarl stayed there for some time, and because of his friendship with the Tibetans he learned a lot of things that other foreigners had no chance to hear about, or observe. One day his friend took him to a place in the neighborhood of the monastery and showed him a sloping meadow which was surrounded in the north west by high cliffs. In one of the rock walls, at a height of about 250 metres was a big hole which looked like the entrance to a cave. In front of this hole there was a platform on which the monks were building a rock wall. The only access to this platform was from the top of the cliff and the monks lowered themselves down with the help of ropes. In the middle of the meadow, about 250 metres from the cliff, was a polished slab of rock with a bowl like cavity in the centre. The bowl had a diameter of one metre and a depth of 15 centimeters. A block of stone was manoeuvred into this cavity by Yak oxen. The block was one metre wide and one and one-half metres long. Then 19 musical instruments were set in an arc of 90 degrees at a distance of 63 metres from the stone slab. The radius of 63 metres was measured out accurately. The musical instruments consisted of 13 drums and six trumpets. (Ragdons). Eight drums had a cross-section of one metre, and a length of one and one- half metres. Four drums were medium size with a cross-section of 0.7 metre and a length of one metre. The only small drum had a cross-section of 0.2 metres and a length of 0.3 metres. All the trumpets were the same size. They had a length of 3.12 metres and an opening of 0.3 metres. The big drums and all the trumpets were fixed on mounts which could be adjusted with staffs in the direction of the slab of stone. The big drums were made of 3mm thick sheet iron, and had a weight of 150 kg. They were built in five sections. All the drums were open at one end, while the other end had a bottom of metal, on which the monks beat with big leather clubs. Behind each instrument was a row of monks. When the stone was in position the monk behind the small drum gave a signal to start the concert. The small drum had a very sharp sound, and could be heard even with the other instruments making a terrible din. All the monks were singing and chanting a prayer, slowly increasing the tempo of this unbelievable noise. During the first four minutes nothing happened, then as the speed of the drumming, and the noise, increased, the big stone block started to rock and sway, and suddenly it took off into the air with an increasing speed in the direction of the platform in front of the cave hole 250 metres high. After three minutes of ascent it landed on the platform. Continuously they brought new blocks to the meadow, and the monks using this method, transported 5 to 6 blocks per hour on a parabolic flight track approximately 500 metres long and 250 metres high. From time to time a stone split, and the monks moved the split stones away. Quite an unbelievable task. Dr Jarl knew about the hurling of the stones. Tibetan experts like Linaver, Spalding and Huc had spoken about it, but they had never seen it. So Dr Jarl was the first foreigner who had the opportunity to see this remarkable spectacle. Because he had the opinion in the beginning that he was the victim of mass-psychosis he made two films of the incident. The films showed exactly the same things that he had witnessed. The English Society for which Dr Jarl was working confiscated the two films and declared them classified. They will not be released until 1990. This action is rather hard to explain, or understand. The fact that the films were immediately classified is not very hard to understand once the given measurements are transposed into their geometric equivalents. It then becomes evident that the monks in Tibet are fully conversant with the laws governing the structure of matter, which the scientists in the modern day western world are now frantically exploring. It appears, from the calculations, that the prayers being chanted by the monks did not have any direct bearing on the fact that the stones were levitated from the ground. The reaction was not initiated by the religious fervour of the group, but by the superior scientific knowledge held by the high priests. The secret is in the geometric placement of the musical instruments in relation to the stones to be levitated, and the harmonic tuning of the drums and trumpets. The combined loud chanting of the priests, using their voices at a certain pitch and rhythm most probably adds to the combined effect, but the subject matter of the chant, I believe, would be of no consequence. The sound waves being generated by the combination were directed in such a way that an anti-gravitational effect was created at the centre of focus (position of the stones) and around the periphery, or the arc, of a third of a circle through which the stones moved. If we analyse the diagram published with the original article, then compare it with the modified diagram, we become aware of the following coordinates, and the implications, when compared with my previously published works. The distance between the stone block and the central pivot of the drum supports is shown as 63 metres. The large drums were said to be one and one half metres long, so the distance from the block to the rear face of each drum could be close to 63.75 metres considering that the pivot point would be near the centre of balance. My theoretical analysis, by calculator, indicates that the exact distance would be 63.7079 metres for the optimum harmonic reaction. I believe that there is not much doubt that the Tibetans had possession of the secrets relating to the geometric structure of matter, and the methods of’ manipulating the harmonic values, but if we can grasp the mathematical theory behind the incident, and extend the application, then an even more fascinating idea presents itself. In my last book I mentioned the flying machines described in ancient records, that flew through the air with a melodious sound, and theorised that the sonic apparatus was tuned to the hal-monic unified equations. Now the Tibetans have given us a direct indication of how to construct a sonic propelled anti-gravitational flying machine. All that is necessary is to complete the circle of sonic generators, indicated by the drums, trumpets, etc., and we have a disc which creates an anti-gravitational lifting force at the centre. From this it would appear that a vehicle could be constructed that would resonate at frequencies in sympathy with the unified fields demonstrated throughout this work. It is my opinion that our own scientific establishments are far ahead in this type of research, and that many experimental vehicles have already been constructed. High frequency generators have probably taken the place of the low frequency sonic methods, and electronic systems produced which would allow complete control of movement. ## With this type of research going on, I would say that the days of the conventional aeroplane are numbered. ---
**Author:** ![tsunamisurfer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a698b9/32.png) [@tsunamisurfer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tsunamisurfer)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gravity-in-the-himalayas/144250/2 "2002-12-21T19:10:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kriss \* > \*\*With this type of research going on, I would say that the days of the conventional aeroplane are numbered. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ \*\* And with this length of a copyrighted quote going on, I would say that the days of this **thread** are numbered. I’ve climbed extensively in the Himalayas and I know numerous other climbers with equal or much better climbing resumes. FTR, I’ve never experienced, heard or, or read about this malarky in my life. Never. A 50-pound pack feels like a 100-pounder to me at altitude. Take a look at my last toothbrush (3" long) and you’ll get the idea. Should you acquire a pair of anti-gravity climbing boots, I’ll triple whatever you paid for them. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gravity-in-the-himalayas/144250/3 "2002-12-21T19:12:15Z")
If the Tibetans are so clever how come they haven’t levitated the Chinese out of their way? \>\> curious to know if this can really happen No, it cannot really happen. That’s an easy one to answer. ---
**Author:** ![Kriss](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kriss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kriss)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gravity-in-the-himalayas/144250/4 "2002-12-21T19:16:21Z")
So basically this is all BS? ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gravity-in-the-himalayas/144250/5 "2002-12-21T19:17:43Z")
**Kriss** , have you got a link to that? It’s likely public domain, but we have a presumption of copyright protection around here, and clearly the amount quoted is well beyond fair use. I’d like to replace your re-print with a link and an excerpt. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Kriss](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kriss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kriss)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gravity-in-the-himalayas/144250/6 "2002-12-21T19:20:16Z")
No sorry I have no link so you are free to do whatever is necessary. ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gravity-in-the-himalayas/144250/7 "2002-12-21T19:23:04Z")
Ugh. To be honest, I don’t even want to _read_ that dreck, let alone edit it. How about you choose the 10% or so that’s most relevant, rephrase a question in your own words and I’ll get rid of the stuff in the first post. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_The\_Diver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Buck\_The\_Diver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_The_Diver)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gravity-in-the-himalayas/144250/8 "2002-12-21T20:13:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by manhattan \* > \*\ ***Kriss** , have you got a link to that? \*\* Google gets you this [link](http://www.spiritweb.org/Spirit/levitation.html). Always happy to help. ---
**Author:** ![Kriss](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kriss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kriss)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gravity-in-the-himalayas/144250/9 "2002-12-21T20:14:19Z")
I have the answer I need: Dont believe everything you read. Thanks for the option though. You can delete this post if you would like. ---
**Author:** ![Kriss](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kriss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kriss)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gravity-in-the-himalayas/144250/10 "2002-12-21T20:16:48Z")
Ah, thank you buck the driver! I appercaite it ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gravity-in-the-himalayas/144250/11 "2002-12-21T22:17:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by manhattan \* > \*\*How about you choose the 10% or so that’s most relevant, rephrase a question in your own words and I’ll get rid of the stuff in the first post. \*\* Here. Edit away. > [@](#): > > Anti-Gravity in The Himalayas > > Ville V Walveranta ([wil@funet.com](mailto:wil@funet.com)) 26 Jan 94 writes: > > Phasing macro-scale gravity-waves with Sound > > \< snip \> > > After obtaining a translation by a German journalist, in English, I was amazed at the information contained in the story, and was surprised that the article had slipped through the suppression net which tends to keep such knowledge from leaking out to the public. > > \< snip \> > > 'We know from the priests of the far east that they were able to lift heavy boulders up high mountains with the help of groups of various sounds … The knowledge of the various vibrations in the audio range demonstrates to a scientist of physics that a vibrating and condensed sound field can nullify the power of gravitation. > > \< snip \> > > Dr Jarl stayed there for some time, and because of his friendship with the Tibetans he learned a lot of things that other foreigners had no chance to hear about, or observe. > > \< snip \> > > During the first four minutes nothing happened, then as the speed of the drumming, and the noise, increased, the big stone block started to rock and sway, and suddenly it took off into the air with an increasing speed in the direction of the platform in front of the cave hole 250 metres high. After three minutes of ascent it landed on the platform. > > \< snip \> > > The English Society for which Dr Jarl was working confiscated the two films and declared them classified. They will not be released until 1990. This action is rather hard to explain, or understand. > > \< snip \> > > Now the Tibetans have given us a direct indication of how to construct a sonic propelled anti-gravitational flying machine. > > \< snip \> > > With this type of research going on, I would say that the days of the conventional aeroplane are numbered. Ohhhhkaaayyyyy… :rolleyes: To sum up: Dr. Jarl watched a group of Tibetan monks build a rock wall using the sound of trumpets and drums to lift the massive boulders, and Ville V Walveranta believes that this techology can be used to make anti-gravity devices and put Boeing, Lockheed Martin, and NASA out of business. ---
**Author:** ![bonzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/45deac/32.png) [@bonzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bonzer)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gravity-in-the-himalayas/144250/12 "2002-12-22T00:07:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kriss \* > During those times he became friends with a young Tibetan student. A couple of years later, it was 1939, Dr Jarl made a journey to Egypt for the English Scientific Society… > All the monks were singing and chanting a prayer, slowly increasing the tempo of this unbelievable noise. During the first four minutes nothing happened, then as the speed of the drumming, and the noise, increased, the big stone block started to rock and sway, and suddenly it took off into the air with an increasing speed in the direction of the platform in front of the cave hole 250 metres high. After three minutes of ascent it landed on the platform. In this very recent [thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=151204&highlight=pyramid), **Arnold Winkelreid** asked > [@](#): > > I remember reading, in my teenage years, a french book that claimed that the pyramid stones were lifted through the use of a “magic rod”. The rod could emit a musical note causing the air to vibrate in a certain way. By pointing the rod at the stone, you could use the air vibrations to lift the stone and place it in any spot desired. > Was this idea taken from “Chariots of the Gods”, or did the french author (whose name I forget) think of it himself? The answer would thus appear to be neither: the basic idea appears to predate both authors. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gravity-in-the-himalayas/144250/13 "2002-12-22T00:13:01Z")
[Here is a link to the article in the OP](http://www.spiritweb.org/Spirit/levitation.html), for what it’s worth, which isn’t much. Purge! ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gravity-in-the-himalayas/144250/14 "2002-12-22T00:14:38Z")
:smack: Sorry **buck**. I was in deep meditation. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_The\_Diver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Buck\_The\_Diver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_The_Diver)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gravity-in-the-himalayas/144250/15 "2002-12-22T01:54:48Z")
No problemo, **larry** , my man. I dig you meditating Canadians. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gravity-in-the-himalayas/144250/16 "2002-12-22T03:07:54Z")
They are apparently aiming this lifting device by manipulating pivoting drums with staffs. These drums are located 60 meters from the object to be lifted and that object is lifted 250 meters in a parabolic arc. I’m guessing that the aiming of all the drums has to be coordinated, while they are being played. I’m just really glad I’m not one of the monks on the ledge who has to dodge a wildly swooping 4 ton chunk of granite as it comes in for a landing. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gravity-in-the-himalayas/144250/17 "2002-12-22T05:05:50Z")
LOL, I once got high with a friend who speculated about imperturbable Tibetan lamas walking along chanting mantras, accidentally walking off a cliff, and just keeping going forward through the air as if nothing had happened. As far as this idea predating the cites, I believe I can trace its origin (at least as far as the Western world is concerned). About 90 years ago, the Russian explorer/artist Nicholas Roerich traveled through Central Asia and Tibet. He reported antigrav phenomena wrought by Tibetans. Roerich is an enigmatic figure, and I haven’t been able to find much solid information on him, although there have been exhibitions of his paintings in New York. What I _can_ tell you is, antigrav as described here was never mentioned in Alexandra David-Neel’s book _Magic and Mystery in Tibet_. Ms. David-Neel is recognized as a reliable witness for Tibetan Buddhist phenomena in the early 20th century. She does not report any eyewitness accounts of the paranormal, although she does pass along several second-hand accounts of wonder working, for what it’s worth. In one of her books she said that a Tibetan lama told her, when she proposed to explain Tibetan Buddhism to the Western world: “I do not know what the people in Europe are like, but they are probably just like the people I have met in Tibet, China, and India. If you speak of profound truths, people yawn and change the subject. But if you tell them absurd fables, they are all ears.” The profound truths he referred to were the tenets of Buddhist metaphysics, such as the impermanence of things and the way the mind manufactures ideas based on perceptions. Now I have some questions about the question. 1. What is MIRC? 2. What do they mean by “Yorkian”? Please don’t assume that everyone here is up to date on your little group’s arcana. ---
**Author:** ![bbeaty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c0e974/32.png) [@bbeaty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bbeaty)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gravity-in-the-himalayas/144250/18 "2002-12-22T14:01:42Z")
David-Neel no paranormal? What about the [tulpa](http://www.tulpa.com/explain/alexandra.html) she claimed to have created? I thought she also witnessed the ‘antigravity trance’ running of Tibetian message carriers, on which the antigravity martial arts stories such as those in “Crouching tiger, hidden dragon” are supposedly based. I’m always intrigued by the responses people have to this stuff. Should we fiercely avoid being taken in by hoaxers… or should we fiercely avoid the path of unreasoning scorn and contempt? Some people see no danger in letting any crazy story into their minds. Others see no danger in loud knee-jerk ridicule of any story which sounds crazy. Some of the top skeptics have a solution: rather than thinking in terms of total disbelief versus total acceptance, instead form a habit of thinking in terms of probability. Don’t accept ANYTHING as true or as false, instead look at the level of likelyhood. This leads to honest opinions unbiased by either the “love of the marvelous” or by a need to disparage craziness. ---
**Author:** ![Scarf-Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Scarf-Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scarf-Ace)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gravity-in-the-himalayas/144250/19 "2002-12-22T15:51:36Z")
Very interesting. I see no reason to suggest that scientific research on the subject should not be conducted in an open spirited fashion. It is known that everything has its resonant frequency so surely the field of harmonics must hold answers to important questions. It is very easy to be confused by physics when the data is presented in terms of theoretical particles etc… Speaking as a layman I am of the opinion that this tendency in modern physics is symptomatic of either information suppresion or ignorance. Sadly the evidence would seem to suggest the former. ---
**Author:** ![Urban\_Ranger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Urban\_Ranger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urban_Ranger)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gravity-in-the-himalayas/144250/20 "2002-12-22T15:59:14Z")
Did the excerpt said the films would be released in _1990_? I would like to see them. Where can I find them? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-gravity-in-the-himalayas/144250.md?page=2)