Anti-Intellectualism = Good?

Jeff Goldblum is the first person to come up with the virus idea. And he is not an ancillary character. He has his own story arc with his ex and all. He and Will Smith need to work together to blow up.the mothership and save humanity. Neither is more important than the other. And Will Smith does not say “Welcome to Erf.” He enunciates.

Forget movies, think of high school. Football and basketball players get letters. People on intellectual teams get laughed at. Kids who set track records get press, kids who get perfect SAT scores get what? Into college, true, but no love.

I was lucky because my high school was so big that there was a critical mass of smart kids who had our own (elitist) classes. But that isn’t common.
When I was on the advisory committee that helped pick a new principal of my kid’s high school, there was a lot of talk about support for sports. I ventured the opinion that support for academics might be more important. Everyone looked at me like I was nuts.

[```

David slips, falls on his ass, hard. Moishe helps him back up on his feet.

			MOISHE
	I think you better sleep this off.
	Go back inside before you catch a
	cold.

Slowly David looks up towards Moishe, an idea.

			DAVID
	Pops, you're a genius!

			MOISHE
	What'd I say?

			DAVID
	A cold?  Of course.

Sobered, David jumps kisses his father and bolts inside.

Yes, his father warns him he might catch cold, which inspires him to come up with the computer virus idea. Not sure what your point is here.

Like I said:

“While the anti-intellectualist idea might puff some people up who shouldn’t be, what if you need people to believe that there’s going to be that day when they have the one good idea in the room, and save the universe from King Koopa, before they’re going to really try and become the best that they can be?”

While this particular example might be on the low-end of the spectrum, I think you’ll find that this is a significant trope in Hollywood. The good, moral, stupid man says something seemingly stupid and it ends up being what saves the day.

This isn’t even wrong.

But that isn’t remotely what this.
Moishe is character who is repeatedly described as clever in his own right.
He says something that is very practical and sensible.
And it doesn’t save the day in any way.

It does act as a catalyst for Goldblum’s character to come up with a solution, but it’s not Moishe’s idea that saves the day. It’s a literal “Eureka” moment, in the sense that the catalyst could have just as easily been seeing water rising in a bath. That’s a trope as old as civilisation.

Who’s Moishe? The character’s name is Julius Levinson.

Right, it’s like crediting Newton’s theory of gravity to the apple that hit him on the head. (As the tale goes.)

A lot of schools give out academic letters. I know mine did. And what kids are going to what colleges is absolutely fodder for the local paper. What else are they going to print? That’s what local weeklies were invented for.

I may be wrong about “Independence Day”, but in order to tell for sure I’d have to watch it again. I’m not sure if I’m willing to do that, even if someone is wrong on the Internet. :wink:

But let’s take a step back. Justin Bailey said:

Wikipedia has a list of top grossing films of all time; a shorter list of inflation-adjusted top grossing films of all time; and a list of the top grossing film of each year starting in 1915.

Let’s look at the top grossing film for each year starting in, say, 1980 (I’ll leave out the ones I haven’t seen). Maybe a few of these don’t count as “big budget blockbusters”, but clearly most of them do. I’m going to put this in a spoiler box, both for space and because it does contain some spoilers.

The Empire Strikes Back - The major problem of this film is not solved by the smartest major character. (Presumably, the smartest person in the film is either Yoda or R2D2, neither of whom is the protagonist.) You could argue that the major problem of this film isn’t even solved in the film, since it’s the middle of a trilogy, but let’s say that Luke’s rescue attempt was the major obstacle. Does anyone want to argue that he succeeds because he’s the smartest guy around? Because it seems to me that he succeeds because he is the Chosen One, because Darth pulls a few punches to avoid killing his son outright, and because Lando isn’t as bad as he seems at first.

Raiders of the Lost Ark - Simply put, Indiana Jones is the least intellectual archeologist of all time. Yes, we see him all tweeded up and professorial for a minute or two, but that’s just window dressing. How many obstacles does he overcome due to brilliance and how many due to punching or whipping? (Or closing his eyes and letting the Ark do the work?)

E.T. the Extra Terrestrial - It’s been a long time since I’ve seen it, but I think this one might work. The central problem is returning ET to his people. Given his ability to construct intergalactic telephone equipment out of common toys, he probably counts as the smartest guy around. On the other hand, I recall there being magic glowing fingers and a flying bicycle, neither of which appear to be the result of cleverness.

Return of the Jedi - The central problem of this film is not solved by the smartest person. The reason the good guys won is because deep inside his shiny metal carapace, little Annie still feels love.

Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom - Again, calling someone a doctor or professor doesn’t count if the majority of what they do involves whipping, punching, and jumping. We could find a porno where a character says she’s a doctor, but that doesn’t mean she actually uses her wits to solve the problem presented.

Back to the Future - Marty is far from the smartest guy around. He’s not even the smartest McFly around.

Rain Man - OK, technically this one might work, but we’d probably have to have a too-long digression over what we mean by “smart”.

Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade - There are a lot more problems in this film that are solved by punching Nazis than by being clever, but at least the final problem is solved by choosing … wisely.

Terminator 2: Judgment Day - I think the evil Terminator counts as the cleverest person in this film, and it fails to achieve its goal.

Aladdin - This one works! Although presumably lacking in education, Aladdin is clever. The ultimate problem of the film is solved brilliantly - not with immense phenomenal power, but by wits and trickery.

Jurassic Park - Dealt with earlier. And no, running and barely surviving does not count as “out-smarting”.

The Lion King - Simba does not solve his problems through intelligence or cleverness.

Independence Day - Discussed earlier. I may be misremembering the relative importance of Goldblum’s character compared to Smith’s. For the sake of not having to watch it again, I’ll just grant this one.

Armageddon - NASA can’t save earth, but this blue-collar driller sure can. This one very much does not fit.

Star Wars Episode 1: The Phantom Menace - The major problem(s) are not solved by cleverness. They are solved by lightsabres and spaceships.

Lord of the Rings - Two Towers, and Return of the King - The smartest people in the films are Gandalf, Galadrial, Elrond, Saruman, and Sauron. Two of them are evil, and the rest act as support for the humble, simple, salt-of-the-earth hobbits. I wouldn’t call “The Lord of the Rings” anti-intellectual, but it is very clearly not pro-intellectual either.

Pirates of the Caribbean - Dead Man’s Chest, and At World’s End - I watched these movies, but they mostly went into my brain and were immediately deleted. I recall lots of arrrs, an undead monkey, a kraken, and a rock being licked. Correct me if I’m wrong, but basically nothing in these films was solved by being really smart, was it?

The Dark Knight - Discussed earlier. Batman is simply not shown as being the smartest guy around. He’s outsmarted by Joker constantly. Yes, Lucius Fox is very smart - albeit in the standard “smart guy secondary character” slot. Fox doesn’t stop Joker, although he does help Batman to find him. But if we’re going to lump Fox, Alfred, Gordon, and Batman together as a team and say that they collectively outsmarted Joker, then the problem is even worse. Because if it takes all of them to catch Joker, then clearly he is the smartest guy around. And his scheme fails.

Toy Story 3 - The major problem is not solved through cleverness. The toys trust Lotso to help them, but he doesn’t. They are instead saved by the aliens.

The Avengers - Discussed previously. I’ll grant this one for the sake of argument, although I have reservations.

At the very most, if I’m being generous, I’d grant that E.T., Rain Man, Last Crusade, Aladdin, Independence Day, and The Avengers fit the description. That’s 6 out of 22, hardly what I would call “average”.

The Empire Strikes Back The problem in this movie is vague, and whether it was actually solved or even needed solving is deliberately and specifically vague. To the extent that there is a problem and it is solved, it is solved because Luke spends months learning from Yoda, who is… the smartest guy in the room. True, Yoda doesn’t directly solve the problem, but he provides the knowledge and guidance necessary to do so. This movie is a bad example of any sort of problem solving, but it sure doesn’t support an anti-intellectual theme.

Raiders of the Lost Ark - Indiana Jones is the most intellectual person in the movie. The fact that nobody is real bright doesn’t change this fact. How many obstacles does he overcome due to brilliance and how many due to punching or whipping? About 50/50. The ultimate solution, closing his eyes, was something that only one guy in the room knew. And he knew that because…

E.T. the Extra Terrestrial Problem is solved by ET. Nuff said.
Return of the Jedi The central problem in this movie was the destruction of the death star. It was solved by fighter pilots using a plan devised by…

Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom Can hardly remember this one so I won’t comment.

Back to the Future - The problem, to the extent it exists, is caused by Marty’s inability to follow simple instructions. It is solved because he finally follows the instructions of the smartest guy in the movie. Yes, Marty is the everyman, but the solution was always known by the smartest guy in the room.

Rain Man - I agree, this is vague.

Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade - We all agree on this one.

Terminator 2: Judgment Day - Given that the central and smartest characters are both machines this one is a hard call. To the extent that the humans solve anything, the scientist character devises the plan.

Jurassic Park - “Dealt with earlier. And no, running and barely surviving does not count as “out-smarting”.” By this standard, none of the movies here can be used as an example. Yet you see fit to include “Return of the Jedi” as examples in your favour, even though the heroes in that also ran and only barely managed to survive. Interesting.

The Lion King - Can’t remember much about this.

Armageddon - We agree.

Star Wars Episode 1: The Phantom Menace - The major problem is solved by clever political maneuvering. All the sword fights are really kind of redundant since the political machinations would have produced the same ending if they hadn’t occurred. And those were arranged by the Emperor and Queen Armadillo, who are the two smartest characters in the movie.

Lord of the Rings - Two Towers, and Return of the King - While the action stars carried out the literal legwork, the problem was solved by following the plan of the smartest people.

Pirates of the Caribbean - Dead Man’s Chest, and At World’s End - Can’t remember these much.

Toy Story 3 - Never saw it.

I think the problem here is that you are assuming that the smartest character has to not only devise the plan, but actually carry it out, and without using any physical force in doing so. So if Elrond devises the plan, he has to personally walk to Mount Doom and he can’t knock out the guards on the way in. If Goldblum’s character devises the plan, he has to personally fly into the alien ship but he can’t get into any dogfights in the way. And anything else is anti-intellectual because the legwork is being done by somebody who isn’t the smartest guy around and he has to physically overcome minor obstacles.

I don’t agree with that. IMO that’s a tortured definition. If the shows were truly anti-intellectual they would be like Armageddon, where somebody with no “book-smarts” is the only one who can solve the problem.

Movies like LoTR, The Dam Busters or Independence day, where a genius comes up with the only solution, then hires someone else to deliver the envelope, are very much pro-intellectual. The fact that the delivery boy has to fight his way through with the envelope is rather irrelevant. Movies like Raiders… are even more pro-intellectual in that the genius devises the plan and carries it out. The fact that he has to get into fights along the way doesn’t make the movie anti-intellectual.

By your definition, it seems like there can never be a pro-intellectual adventure movie, since as soon as the plan relies on any form of “punching or whipping” you rule it out because that helped solve the problem. That seems like you are moving the goalposts to the opposite end of the field.

Now look at the movies you excluded from your list (that I have seen):

Ghostbusters (1984) Problem solved by… Indisputably pro-intellectual.
Top Gun (1986) Problem solved by… Ambiguous attitude to intellectualism
Fatal Attraction (1987) Problem solved by… Pro-intellectual.
Home Alone (1990) Live action cartoon. I think we can both discount this.
Forrest Gump (1994) Definitely anti-intellectual
Titanic (1997) Hard to say who the smartest person was in this one. To the extent that the hero wasn’t educated, we can call this anti-intellectual.
Saving Private Ryan (1998) The two smartest characters by far are the Captain and the translator. The problem is solved by the Captain and the translator is the sole survivor. Definitely pro-intellectual.
Spider-Man (2002) Peter Parker is a certified freakin’ genius.
Spider-Man 3 (2007) See above.
Avatar (2009) Problem noticed and solution devised by Sigourney Weaver, who is…Indisputably pro-intellectual.

So if we look at all the movies where the solution is devised by the smartest person in the room, regardless of whether they have to fight to implement the solution or hire someone else to fight, then we have 16.

If we look at movies where the solution is devised by someone who isn’t smart/educated, we have 3.

And we have a whole slew that are kinda hard to categorise either way.

It’s probably also worth pointing out movies that are pro-intelligence, as a comparison:

Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy
The Usual Suspects
The Prestige
Spy Games

Movies like Primer, Moon, Solaris, and Inception have some intelligent writing, but the main characters never do anything particularly clever, I don’t think. The new Sherlock films are basically action films.

How many of these were blockbusters?

If a movie is an action movie, the plot will involve action. You know, explosions, gun battles, martial arts fights, magic, monsters, etc. It probably won’t involve people discussing the meaning of life or the Riemann Hypothesis. Complaining that action movies involve action seems a little…well, disingenuous is probably the most forum appropriate word I can use.

Inception did pretty well, I think. “Everything you know might all be a dream” ideas, I’ve noticed, tend to be pretty popular with the average man (or, at least, with pot heads) despite otherwise being a fairly philosophically poignant, intelligent topic.

The remainder are on a sliding scale of popularity (topping out at “cult classic”) and obscurity. You could probably fit all the people who have seen Primer in a large movie theater.

I wouldn’t consider The Usual Suspects nor The Prestige as particularly obscure.

Beer good !

Surprising that **The Matrix **isn’t in there, since it somehow managed to be both a punchy-gunny boom-boom pop corn flick AND a somewhat deep philosophical questionnaire feat. the nature of reality, free will, the fundamentals of humanity and the self… this even though the Wachowskys pussied out and ran the good ship Think For Yourself straight into Christ Saves (and takes half damage) somehow.
I know it made a lot of people go woah. Not to mention gave every geek in the room a massive nerdboner on top of the more pedestrian (but no less towering) Carrie-Ann Moss-related one.

And that held them for about a half an hour.

Not to mention the whole staff length puzzle thing…