# Anti-Semitism and the accusations agains Representative Ilhan Omar. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 5, 2019, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568 "2019-03-05T12:57:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2019, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/21 "2019-03-05T15:19:47Z")
What \*\*Elvis1Lives \*\*said. Some people use “anti-Semitism” as a way of shutting down valid criticism of Israel, as if criticizing Israel and hating on Jews are the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2019, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/22 "2019-03-05T15:32:14Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Please, people. “All About The Benjamins” has been standard slang at least since[Puff Daddy’s 1997 single](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It%27s_All_About_the_Benjamins), and of course refers to Franklin’s portrait on the $100 bill. Even Weird Al did a version. To conclude the use of the term is antisemitic, you have to \*want \*to conclude it. Which has literally fuck-all to do with anything. It’s not the words that are antisemitic, it is the context. For example, if you tell your five year old kid, “You probably like watermelon, don’t you?” there’s nothing offensive with those words. If you say the same exact thing to an African-American, of COURSE it is offensive! I contend that you _want_ to conclude that Rep. Omar did nothing wrong. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2019, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/23 "2019-03-05T15:37:21Z")
It makes no difference to declare the context off-limits instead of the words. It’s an avoidance tactic either way. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2019, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/24 "2019-03-05T15:43:58Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > ISTM that there are two separate but related issues. One is that yes, Rep. Omar has used language that is anti-Semitic. The other is that she has criticized the US - Israeli relationship. What prompted my post is that it seems to me that her critics are attacking her for the first issue and then using that attack to try to shut down debate on the second issue. It’s the latter that Rep. Omar is fighting back about, and I agree that even if one critic of that relationship (herself) has used anti-Semitic language, that doesn’t mean that US - Israeli relations should not be criticized or debated. This is mostly in line with my thinking. ---
**Author:** ![Royal\_Nonesutch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecb155/32.png) [@Royal\_Nonesutch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Royal_Nonesutch)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2019, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/25 "2019-03-05T15:52:00Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > For example, if you tell your five year old kid, “You probably like watermelon, don’t you?” there’s nothing offensive with those words. If you say the same exact thing to an African-American, of COURSE it is offensive! What if your five year old kid is African-American? Is it offensive then? ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2019, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/26 "2019-03-05T18:21:10Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > Fair points. I should have been more precise by specifying Jewish Americans rather than Israeli-Americans. I admit to not being familiar with the whole allegiance to a foreign country being a classic antisemitic canard of dual loyalty. I’m familiar with it regarding Catholics and that it was a concern about Kennedy back when he was running for president in 1960, but had never heard this about Jewish people. Other than Israel since 1948, I wouldn’t even be able guess which other nation a Jewish person would be accused of being loyal to. Does it go back far enough that the reference is to the ancient Kingdom of David? It definitely is an old, anti-semitic stereotype. [This column on anti-semitism by Mark Steyn](https://www.steynonline.com/8954/finding-wisdom-as-the-branches-shrivel) begins by mentioning an 18th century work of fiction set in a fictional kingdom, but to get the plot in motion, the author described laws that limited Jewish rights of property ownership. Such laws did really exist in many countries and were often justified on the grounds that it was just known that Jews could not be real citizens of any country because of their divided loyalty. I would recommend reading Steyn’s whole column, which was written after the Pttisburg massacre last fall, before the current kerfuffle with Ilhan Omar but certainly seems relevant to this thread. Since Jews began gathering in Israel in the 19th century, even before the official founding, it has been a nation of immigrants and refugees. Many were fleeing persecution and had no other place to go. So today we look around a see certain public figures like Omar or Jeremy Corbyn with a compulsive need to trash Israel but no similar need to go after real human rights abusers like China or Saudi Arabia, and no explanation ever given for that. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2019, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/27 "2019-03-05T18:28:59Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > So today we look around a see certain public figures like Omar or Jeremy Corbyn with a compulsive need to trash Israel Wouldn’t it be more helpful to \*address \*what they’re saying instead of declaring it out of bounds, with or without the pop psychoanalysis? ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2019, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/28 "2019-03-05T18:49:19Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > So today we look around a see certain public figures like Omar or Jeremy Corbyn with a compulsive need to trash Israel but no similar need to go after real human rights abusers like China or Saudi Arabia, and no explanation ever given for that. This took me literally two seconds to Google: “The Saudi government might have been strategic at covering up the daily atrocities carried out against minorities, women, activists and even the #YemenGenocide, but the murder of #JamaKhashoggi should be the last evil act they are allowed to commit. #BDSSaudi #murderedjournalist” - Ilhan Omar ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2019, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/29 "2019-03-05T18:52:58Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Please, people. “All About The Benjamins” has been standard slang at least since[Puff Daddy’s 1997 single](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It%27s_All_About_the_Benjamins), and of course refers to Franklin’s portrait on the $100 bill. Even Weird Al did a version. To conclude the use of the term is antisemitic, you have to \*want \*to conclude it. Um you realize Jadakiss says “You should do what we do//Stack chips like Hebrews// don’t let the melody intrigue you// we only here for that green paper with the eagle” on that song. Of course “Hebrew” was edited out not because of a conspiracy at all. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2019, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/30 "2019-03-05T18:53:09Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > This took me literally two seconds to Google: > > “The Saudi government might have been strategic at covering up the daily atrocities carried out against minorities, women, activists and even the #YemenGenocide, but the murder of #JamaKhashoggi should be the last evil act they are allowed to commit. #BDSSaudi #murderedjournalist” - Ilhan Omar Okay, but [Jeremy Corbyn stays silent on China, right?](https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/oct/14/jeremy-corbyn-china-human-rights-record-buckingham-palace-state-banquet) > [@](#): > > Jeremy Corbyn will attempt to challenge the Chinese on their human rights record when he attends a state banquet to be held by the Queen for the country’s president, Xi Jinping, next week. Okay, but he’s never said anything about Saudi Arabia, right? > [@](#): > > Since becoming Labour leader, Corbyn has taken a strong stance on the raising of human rights abuses with other states, and successfully pressed David Cameron to drop a prisons deal with Saudi Arabia. In all fairness, “Jeremy Corbyn China Human Rights” took me at least five seconds to Google. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2019, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/31 "2019-03-05T19:03:43Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > It makes no difference to declare the context off-limits instead of the words. It’s an avoidance tactic either way. This is patently silly, and offensive. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2019, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/32 "2019-03-05T19:14:11Z")
And that’s \*another \*avoidance tactic. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2019, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/33 "2019-03-05T19:18:29Z")
I don’t think it was anti-Semitic. If Omar’s criticisms are valid, then they are valid even if other people are making the same criticisms for bigoted reasons. I don’t think they are valid, but that is not currently the question. I don’t think it was wrong to accuse [Jonathan Pollard](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Pollard) of divided loyalties, because other people have accused other people of having divided loyalties. Some people do have divided loyalties, others don’t - one needs to figure it out in each case, on its own, and not just rule it out _ab initio_. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2019, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/34 "2019-03-05T19:31:57Z")
She crossed the line at least once in using the term “allegiance to a foreign country.". The “All About The Benjamins” was a maybe, but taken in context, it also appears anti-semitic. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2019, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/35 "2019-03-05T19:50:25Z")
Would it have been anti-Semitic if “all about the Benjamins” had been in reference to Congressmen taking cash from the NRA? If not, then why is pointing out the financial allegiance to the Israeli lobby offensive when pointing out the financial allegiance to other lobbies is not? My two cents: if this had been a WASP making these comments, nobody would have gotten the vapors over it. But some want to use this to drum up anti-Muslim bigotry. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2019, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/36 "2019-03-05T19:57:11Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > She probably wasn’t intending to utilize the trope of a Jewish conspiracy controlling money and using it to manipulate people, but just as there are words, references, and allusions that one should avoid using when criticizing a black person, the same goes for criticing a Jewish person (or Jewish organization), IMO. That doesn’t mean that all the criticism against her is reasonable – much or most of it is not. Especially those that criticized her for daring to question the US relationship and support for Israel. It’s entirely reasonable to question our relationship with and support for Israel; it’s not reasonable to utilize anti-semitic tropes (intentionally or not) when doing so. I don’t see how you can complain about the pro-Israeli lobby without bringing money into it. For the record and just so we’re clear, Israel’s not the only country that has interests, or that uses money to try to corrupt the American political system to further their interests. Obviously Russia and China do the same thing. Saudi Arabia does it too, obviously. A lot of countries do. She’s not saying “Jews control the banks and the media” – that’s a trope. But saying that American politicians are easily influenced by Israeli money is not the same thing. It’s as though some people are saying any comment that criticizes the pro-Israeli lobby’s attempts to influence our system monetarily (among other things) is akin to making antisemitic remarks, and I just don’t buy that and I think we’re gullible as hell if we establish that as a precedent. I personally think Omar probably does have strong biases against Israel, but that doesn’t mean she can’t make that kind of remark. I would nevertheless agree, however, that her own ethnicity makes it difficult, if not impossible, for her to make such remarks without inviting suspicion, which is why she should probably stay away from foreign policy and just focus on how Trump sucks at presidentin’. Even though I don’t like the precedent it establishes in terms of criticism of Israel, I can’t say I’m entirely against the idea of the Democratic party reining her in and taking away her microphone. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2019, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/37 "2019-03-05T19:59:27Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Would it have been anti-Semitic if “all about the Benjamins” had been in reference to Congressmen taking cash from the NRA? If not, then why is pointing out the financial allegiance to the Israeli lobby offensive when pointing out the financial allegiance to other lobbies is not? > > My two cents: if this had been a WASP making these comments, nobody would have gotten the vapors over it. But some want to use this to drum up anti-Muslim bigotry. Oh I think there would still be controversy and calls for apologies, but with Omar, there’s a much deeper level of suspicion to overcome, and fair or not, she needs to come to that realization - fast. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2019, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/38 "2019-03-05T20:00:21Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I don’t see how you can complain about the pro-Israeli lobby without bringing money into it. For the record and just so we’re clear, Israel’s not the only country that has interests, or that uses money to try to corrupt the American political system to further their interests. Obviously Russia and China do the same thing. Saudi Arabia does it too, obviously. A lot of countries do. She’s not saying “Jews control the banks and the media” – that’s a trope. But saying that American politicians are easily influenced by Israeli money is not the same thing. It’s as though some people are saying any comment that criticizes the pro-Israeli lobby’s attempts to influence our system monetarily (among other things) is akin to making antisemitic remarks, and I just don’t buy that and I think we’re gullible as hell if we establish that as a precedent. If she made it a broad criticism on lobbying, then I don’t think it would be problematic at all. But by singling out Israel, I think she’s falling into that trap. And apparently she agreed, because she made what appears to me to be a genuine and solid apology. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2019, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/39 "2019-03-05T20:05:51Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Would it have been anti-Semitic if “all about the Benjamins” had been in reference to Congressmen taking cash from the NRA? If not, then why is pointing out the financial allegiance to the Israeli lobby offensive when pointing out the financial allegiance to other lobbies is not? > > My two cents: if this had been a WASP making these comments, nobody would have gotten the vapors over it. But some want to use this to drum up anti-Muslim bigotry. How about the fact that AIPAC isn’t giving dollars to candidates, unlike the NRA, so she’s factually wrong? And do you assert that greedy Jews using money to manipulate people just isn’t a theme that has been used for hundreds of years to play on racist sentiments? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2019, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/40 "2019-03-05T20:06:09Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > with Omar, there’s a much deeper level of suspicion to overcome Hmm, yeah, why do you think that is? > [@](#): > > and fair or not, she needs to come to that realization - fast. Does anyone else have any realizing to do? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568.md?page=3)