# Anti-Semitism and the accusations agains Representative Ilhan Omar. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 5, 2019, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568 "2019-03-05T12:57:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2019, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/381 "2019-04-12T15:39:46Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yes, \*response to terrorism. > \* > > So, stop the terrorism, then no response. > > Stop random rocket attacks into residential areas, bombing school busses and other acts of pointless terrorism. Most Palestinians haven’t bombed school buses or otherwise committed acts of terrorism, and thus it’s morally wrong to hold them all responsible for the actions of a relative few. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2019, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/382 "2019-04-12T16:06:01Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yes, \*response to terrorism. > \* > > So, stop the terrorism, then no response. > > Stop random rocket attacks into residential areas, bombing school busses and other acts of pointless terrorism. Israel has every right to respond to terrorism – with appropriate, measured police action. Unfortunately, they have had a tendency to blur the lines between legitimate law enforcement and sometimes legitimacy military operations and outright collective punishment, which is illegal under international law. And sorry, but if Israel wants people to recognize her legitimacy and her “right to exist” under international law – which I do, by the way – then it has the same responsibilities that the rest of us do to act in accordance with those same laws. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2019, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/383 "2019-04-12T17:27:46Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Most Palestinians haven’t bombed school buses or otherwise committed acts of terrorism, and thus it’s morally wrong to hold them all responsible for the actions of a relative few. Certainly, and those responsible should turn themselves in. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2019, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/384 "2019-04-14T18:10:32Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Most Palestinians haven’t bombed school buses or otherwise committed acts of terrorism, and thus it’s morally wrong to hold them all responsible for the actions of a relative few. then they should arrest those responsible and imprison them. These are acts of war and Israel has been beyond tolerant. What they should do is declare war and keep taking land until the problem is solved. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2019, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/385 "2019-04-14T18:14:30Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > then they should arrest those responsible and imprison them. > > These are acts of war and Israel has been beyond tolerant. What they should do is declare war and keep taking land until the problem is solved. War and more killing is definitely the answer. Let’s hear it for spilling the blood of men, women, and children! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2019, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/386 "2019-04-14T18:17:13Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > then they should arrest those responsible and imprison them. > > These are acts of war and Israel has been beyond tolerant. What they should do is declare war and keep taking land until the problem is solved. Yeah! Israel just wants a little living space, nothing wrong with that. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2019, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/387 "2019-04-14T18:57:10Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > War and more killing is definitely the answer. Let’s hear it for spilling the blood of men, women, and children! Not starting a war is definitely the answer. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2019, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/388 "2019-04-14T19:02:58Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Not starting a war is definitely the answer. Sounds good to me. Don’t start a war, and don’t use collective punishment against millions of truly desperate, impoverished people for the actions of a relative few. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2019, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/389 "2019-04-14T19:07:48Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Afghanistan is a part of the Arab world? Well that’s news to me, and I’m sure it’s news to pretty much everyone reading it. Tell me, is Indonesia also part of the “Arab world”? Malaysia? Christ.:rolleyes: > > Mate, do me a favor. Let’s pick up this discussion again when you’ve spent quality time reading some history and looked at a map. Actually, I just finished a very good book that’s mostly a worm’s-eye view of 1947-48 from the POV of four Arab Jews. But yeah, feel free to get on me for not saying something like ‘Arab/Muslim world.’ And after that, go find something less nitpicky and pedantic to argue about. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2019, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/390 "2019-04-14T20:24:42Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Sounds good to me. Don’t start a war, and don’t use collective punishment against millions of truly desperate, impoverished people for the actions of a relative few. Then the collective desperate impoverished people need to hold themselves accountable. Don’t wage war if you don’t want a military response set upon you. That’s step 1 in a 1 step process. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2019, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/391 "2019-04-14T20:27:11Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Sounds good to me. Don’t start a war, and don’t use collective punishment against millions of truly desperate, impoverished people for the actions of a relative few. Who, I will point out, voted heavily for Hamas. They voted for Hamas, they are responsible. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2019, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/392 "2019-04-14T20:46:56Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Then the collective desperate impoverished people need to hold themselves accountable. The majority haven’t committed any acts of violence. > [@](#): > > Don’t wage war if you don’t want a military response set upon you. That’s step 1 in a 1 step process. Sounds good to me. Most Palestinians aren’t waging war against anyone. > [@DrDeth](#): > > Who, I will point out, voted heavily for Hamas. They voted for Hamas, they are responsible. Desperate, impoverished people, most of whom in this case have literally no options at having a decent and prosperous life for themselves and their families, sometimes do desperate things. This has been a characteristic of desperate humans for all of history. The Palestinians are humans – as long as they’re truly desperate, they’re going to do the kinds of things desperate humans do. This will only change when they are no longer in desperate circumstances with virtually no chance at a decent life. And in this case, most Palestinians aren’t violent. I don’t think they should support violent organizations like Hamas, but when there are no decent options, desperate humans sometimes do desperate things. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2019, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/393 "2019-04-14T21:29:28Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > … > Desperate, impoverished people, most of whom in this case have literally no options at having a decent and prosperous life for themselves and their families, sometimes do desperate things. This has been a characteristic of desperate humans for all of history. The Palestinians are humans – as long as they’re truly desperate, they’re going to do the kinds of things desperate humans do. This will only change when they are no longer in desperate circumstances with virtually no chance at a decent life. > > And in this case, most Palestinians aren’t violent. I don’t think they should support violent organizations like Hamas, but when there are no decent options, desperate humans sometimes do desperate things. So, even tho they \*were \*responsible by voting for Terrorism, that’s Ok because they were “Desperate, impoverished people”. :dubious: Okaaaaay. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2019, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/394 "2019-04-14T21:38:34Z")
and this shows that while Palestine certainly has issues, they are better off than many other similar nations: [http://www.israeladvocacy.net/knowledge/exposing-lies-of-israeli-discrimination/do-palestinians-have-the-lowest-standard-of-living-in-the-world/](http://www.israeladvocacy.net/knowledge/exposing-lies-of-israeli-discrimination/do-palestinians-have-the-lowest-standard-of-living-in-the-world/) [https://www.weeklystandard.com/jonah-cohen/actually-palestinians-are-doing-pretty-well-under-israeli-rule](https://www.weeklystandard.com/jonah-cohen/actually-palestinians-are-doing-pretty-well-under-israeli-rule) Now yes, there is this: > **[Standard of living in West Bank dropping for first time in years, World Bank...](https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/2018-03-15/ty-article/.premium/world-bank-report-standard-of-living-in-the-west-bank-is-dropping/0000017f-e646-dea7-adff-f7ffbbaa0000)** > > \*\*\* So yes, _recently_ things have gotten pretty desperate in the Gaza. That doesn’t excuse decades of terrorist activity. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2019, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/395 "2019-04-14T21:58:09Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The majority haven’t committed any acts of violence. > > Sounds good to me. Most Palestinians aren’t waging war against anyone. and Israel isn’t waging war against most Palestinians. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2019, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/396 "2019-04-14T22:04:43Z")
This may sound really, really stupid, I don’t know, but here goes: I just looked at the Gaza Strip in Google Earth. It is such a constricted space. I feel that even if it were granted autonomous statehood, it wouldn’t be enough land. But on the other hand, Israel is itself a really small country, and I cannot ever envision them giving up any more territory. What if Israel and Egypt were to work out a situation where the Gaza Strip could be extended into Egypt? I see a great deal of what looks like relatively open space, to the south of Gaza, inside Egypt. Egypt already has a lot of land. It’s far bigger than Israel, and it’s of course far bigger than Gaza. If I were, like, God or something, I would take a small chunk of Egypt, link it with the Gaza Strip, and then make that country Palestine. There’s also the West Bank - in that case, I would offer the residents of that territory the option of either relocating to the new Palestinian country, or possibly just accepting citizenship in Israel. Either one would be better than their current situation. I can’t have been the only person to have this idea - what are some of the things preventing a similar scenario from being negotiated? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2019, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/397 "2019-04-14T22:06:37Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > and this shows that while Palestine certainly has issues, they are better off than many other similar nations: > [Do Palestinians have the lowest standard of living in the world? – Israel Advocacy Movement](http://www.israeladvocacy.net/knowledge/exposing-lies-of-israeli-discrimination/do-palestinians-have-the-lowest-standard-of-living-in-the-world/) > > [https://www.weeklystandard.com/jonah-cohen/actually-palestinians-are-doing-pretty-well-under-israeli-rule](https://www.weeklystandard.com/jonah-cohen/actually-palestinians-are-doing-pretty-well-under-israeli-rule) I’m not even gonna click through to a link to the Weekly Standard, dude. Seriously, you have major issues with your cites. They’ve cropped up in multiple threads in just the past few days. Also, the standard of living is just one measure. If you were confined to a prison cell, but lacked for no material need, how meaningful would your standard of living be? I’m no expert, but I know West Bank and Gaza residents have to put up with a lot of shit that’s not quantified in ‘standard of living’, from internal checkpoints to being kicked out of one’s home because an Israeli settlement is going in where your village had been until now (in the West Bank) to being in what’s basically an open-air prison (Gaza). > [@](#): > > [https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/.premium-world-bank-report-standard-of-living-in-the-west-bank-is-dropping-1.5908617](https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/.premium-world-bank-report-standard-of-living-in-the-west-bank-is-dropping-1.5908617) > > So yes, _recently_ things have gotten pretty desperate in the Gaza. That doesn’t excuse decades of terrorist activity. So when was this time when things were normal in Gaza? Tell me about it. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2019, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/398 "2019-04-14T22:11:12Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > and Israel isn’t waging war against most Palestinians. You advocate that they should, though. Doesn’t seem like a good thing to me. > [@DrDeth](#): > > So, even tho they \*were \*responsible by voting for Terrorism, that’s Ok because they were “Desperate, impoverished people”. :dubious: > > Okaaaaay. You mean kind of like resistors of apartheid, who sometimes supported some groups and political parties that had taken some violent actions against the apartheid government? Is that the kind of thing you’re condemning, and that you believe justifies supporting the much more powerful government that is keeping humans in utterly desperate conditions? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2019, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/399 "2019-04-14T22:14:46Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > I’m not even gonna click through to a link to the Weekly Standard, dude. > > Seriously, you have major issues with your cites. They’ve cropped up in multiple threads in just the past few days… \*Ad hominem. \* Show me that the standard of living is worse in Palestine that the average muslim nation. \*\*Your turn. \*\* ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2019, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/400 "2019-04-14T22:16:01Z")
> [@Lamoral](#): > > This may sound really, really stupid, I don’t know, but here goes: > > I just looked at the Gaza Strip in Google Earth. It is such a constricted space. I feel that even if it were granted autonomous statehood, it wouldn’t be enough land. But on the other hand, Israel is itself a really small country, and I cannot ever envision them giving up any more territory. > > What if Israel and Egypt were to work out a situation where the Gaza Strip could be extended into Egypt? I see a great deal of what looks like relatively open space, to the south of Gaza, inside Egypt. Egypt already has a lot of land. It’s far bigger than Israel, and it’s of course far bigger than Gaza. > > If I were, like, God or something, I would take a small chunk of Egypt, link it with the Gaza Strip, and then make that country Palestine. > > There’s also the West Bank - in that case, I would offer the residents of that territory the option of either relocating to the new Palestinian country, or possibly just accepting citizenship in Israel. Either one would be better than their current situation. > > I can’t have been the only person to have this idea - what are some of the things preventing a similar scenario from being negotiated? During the run-up to the Gulf War, I had a great idea: we’d explain to the Kuwaiti leaders that we’d help them get their country back, on one condition: that they take in any Palestinians that were willing to move down there, with the deal being that those Palestinians would share amongst themselves a fraction, maybe one-fourth, of Kuwait’s oil revenues in perpetuity. The Kuwaitis could have 3/4 of their oil revenues back, or they could maintain a _claim_ to 100% of those revenues, but it would be up to them to dislodge Saddam. 😃 Of course, this was late 1990 and there was no Internet yet, so there was nowhere to share this bright idea. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568.md?page=21)