# Anti-Semitism and the accusations agains Representative Ilhan Omar. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 5, 2019, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568 "2019-03-05T12:57:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/421 "2019-04-15T00:05:49Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Most of this has nothing to do with my actual arguments, and I’ve never attempted to justify or defend terrorism (nor would I), and I’ve never called Israel “evil and wrong” or anything close. Some of my distant relatives escaped the Holocaust and ended up in Israel, in fact – I have blood interest in the long term safety and security of Israel. If you want an actual discussion, feel free to respond to my actual, specific words, not this sort of straw-man silliness, and I’d be happy to post my thoughts. Your own words:\* Desperate, impoverished people, most of whom in this case have literally no options at having a decent and prosperous life for themselves and their families, sometimes do desperate things. This has been a characteristic of desperate humans for all of history. The Palestinians are humans – as long as they’re truly desperate, they’re going to do the kinds of things desperate humans do. This will only change when they are no longer in desperate circumstances with virtually no chance at a decent life.\* \*\*That was justifying terrorism. \*\* However, i take back the part about calling Israel “evil and wrong” , I mixed you up with another poster. \* Mea culpa.\* ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/422 "2019-04-15T00:09:11Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Your own words:\* Desperate, impoverished people, most of whom in this case have literally no options at having a decent and prosperous life for themselves and their families, sometimes do desperate things. This has been a characteristic of desperate humans for all of history. The Palestinians are humans – as long as they’re truly desperate, they’re going to do the kinds of things desperate humans do. This will only change when they are no longer in desperate circumstances with virtually no chance at a decent life.\* > \*\*That was justifying terrorism. \*\* Not it wasn’t, not in the least. Which specific sentence of that paragraph do you disagree with? That Palestinians are human? That most of them don’t have any decent chance at a decent life for themselves and their families? That desperate people sometimes do desperate things? Which part do you think is false? The “desperate actions” I’m referring to aren’t terrorism, which you’d realize if you read my posts carefully. Most Palestinians haven’t committed any terrorist acts. > [@](#): > > However, i take back the part about calling Israel “evil and wrong” , I mixed you up with another poster. \* Mea culpa.\* Thank you. It’s entirely possible to have a nuanced position on this subject. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/423 "2019-04-15T00:16:03Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > However, i take back the part about calling Israel “evil and wrong” , I mixed you up with another poster. \* Mea culpa.\* …good on ya 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/424 "2019-04-15T07:55:17Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > However if it makes you feel better I also used **iiandyiiii** cite from the Human development Index which shows that Palestine is about average for a Arab state. Not good by any means, but not that “Desperate, impoverished”. Why is the point or comparison to “arab states”, rather than, say, the directly neighboring country that controls every entrance and exit to the area? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/425 "2019-04-15T10:00:01Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > Instead, the Palestinians cheered for Saddam, and all of the Palestinians who were working in Kuwait got expelled. ‘Instead’? So ‘instead’ of an alternative that existed only in my head and in conversations with a few friends, they did this other thing? Wow, they sure blew it! ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/426 "2019-04-15T10:42:24Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Why is the point or comparison to “arab states”, rather than, say, the directly neighboring country that controls every entrance and exit to the area? Because he has no idea what he’s talking about and refuses to admit it. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/427 "2019-04-15T10:52:10Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > My cites simply said that Palestine doesnt have that bad of a standard of living. Refute \*that. \* “There’s something in this box that I believe backs up what I’m saying. It’s up to you to rummage through the box, find the object in question, and show why you think it doesn’t work. After you’ve done that, I’ll let you know if you picked the right object from the box.” Nope. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/428 "2019-04-15T10:52:23Z")
Going back to the original subject of the thread, it is clear that Ilhan Omar’s “crime” is in daring to assert herself as a foreign-born American, as a woman, as a woman of color, as a woman of color openly practicing a faith that has been vilified since 9/11 and even before. Similar insults were actually tossed in Barack Obama’s direction when he was running for office and when he was president. Because he actually was a Christian and not a Muslim, because he was born in the United States and not Somalia, he understood the potential verbal landmines better than Omar and knew how not to step on them. I expected someone like Omar to be vilified by the racist right wing, but it’s disheartening to see that she’s being abandoned by people who really ought to know better and who ought to use their bullshit detectors to see this shit for what it really is. Make no mistake about it: this is a pre-game warmup by the conservatives for racial violence. This is America’s white christian nationalist tribe stoking the fires of racial animus, tailgating outside the coliseum before the gladiatorial combat begins. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/429 "2019-04-15T15:12:54Z")
RTFirefly: > [@](#): > > ‘Instead’? > > So ‘instead’ of an alternative that existed only in my head and in conversations with a few friends, they did this other thing? > > Wow, they sure blew it! Well, true, this “part-ownership in Kuwait” idea was only ever in your head. Still, there were a tremendous number of Palestinians working in Kuwait and sending money home to their families. They should have known what side their bread was buttered on and supported Kuwait, knowing that this would likely benefit them more than cheering Saddam’s ability to lob, at Kuwait’s expense, a few Scuds at Tel Aviv. Your suggestion goes a bit further than reality offered, but they still blew the chance to better their situation by supporting Kuwait in the war. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/430 "2019-04-15T20:08:16Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Why is the point or comparison to “arab states”, rather than, say, the directly neighboring country that controls every entrance and exit to the area? Sure, add in Israel if you like. It doesnt change the fact the Palestine is not all that “Desperate and impoverished”. It’s about in the middle of all nations. Things could get better, no doubt. You are free to list all the bad things in Palestine you want to, but that doesnt change the fact that it is in about the middle of all nations, there’s about a hundred nations worse off and few have resorted to constant terrorist attacks. The point is things in Palestine are not so Desperate and impoverished that terrorism is their only solution. In fact, terrorism is never your only solution. It only makes things worse. But of course to Hamas, Israel has no right to exist and the only good Jew is a dead Jew, so terrorism is just fine. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/431 "2019-04-15T21:27:46Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > it’s disheartening to see that she’s being abandoned by people who really ought to know better and who ought to use their bullshit detectors to see this shit for what it really is. It really is. The right is coming after her, and the Dems can either stand with her and scare them away, or they can mumble meaningless sentiments and think she asked for it by saying all those (not especially) awful things. They can pick people off one by one like that; it’s important that the Dems put a stop to it NOW. > [@](#): > > Make no mistake about it: this is a pre-game warmup by the conservatives for racial violence. This is America’s white christian nationalist tribe stoking the fires of racial animus, tailgating outside the coliseum before the gladiatorial combat begins. Given the events of the past year or two, the only thing I question is whether there’s anything ‘pre’ about it. We’re already looking at how it operates: people will take seriously the bullshit that Tucker Carlson and Alex Jones and Rush Limbaugh spew, and every now and then one of them will think he’s doing his patriotic duty by grabbing his gun and shooting as many of The Other as he can shoot before he is brought down. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/432 "2019-04-15T21:32:43Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > It doesnt change the fact the Palestine is not all that “Desperate and impoverished”. …LOL. You provided a cite that says people have to walk 2.5 miles every day to get water. That 90 percent of the water in their aquifer is unfit for domestic use. Your cite literally says “The situation isn’t helped by \*\*desperate \*\*Gazans trying to tap into the underground reserve via homemade wells.” Desperate and impoverished is an entirely fair characterization and its bizarre that you are still pretending that it is not. Yes: by some metrics there are people that are more desperate and impoverished. But that is completely irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/433 "2019-04-15T21:46:26Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > Still, there were a tremendous number of Palestinians working in Kuwait and sending money home to their families. They should have known what side their bread was buttered on and supported Kuwait, knowing that this would likely benefit them more than cheering Saddam’s ability to lob, at Kuwait’s expense, a few Scuds at Tel Aviv. Your suggestion goes a bit further than reality offered, but they still blew the chance to better their situation by supporting Kuwait in the war. Sure, if they’d had a crystal ball. This is 100% obvious from the POV of 2019, when we’ve had nearly three decades to come to take for granted the level of combat excellence that the U.S. military has attained. But that was still in the future even during Desert Shield, when it had been only 15 years since the U.S. military had been chased out of Vietnam; Desert Storm was really its coming-out party on the world stage. If you’re a Palestinian working in [del]Kuwait[/del] Iraq’s 19th province during Desert Shield, how would you have known that it was going to _be_ Kuwait again in a matter of months? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/434 "2019-04-15T22:08:59Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …LOL. > > You provided a cite that says people have to walk 2.5 miles every day to get water. That 90 percent of the water in their aquifer is unfit for domestic use. Your cite literally says “The situation isn’t helped by \*\*desperate \*\*Gazans trying to tap into the underground reserve via homemade wells.”… Sure, there are _parts_ of Palestine which are pretty bad. There are parts of America that are pretty bad too. That doesnt change the fact that overall, Palestine isnt that bad off. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/435 "2019-04-15T22:25:41Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Sure, there are _parts_ of Palestine which are pretty bad. There are parts of America that are pretty bad too. That doesnt change the fact that overall, Palestine isnt that bad off. …LOL. The only evidence you have provided that “Palestine isnt that bad off” are links to literal propaganda and a comparison to places that by some metrics are a little bit worse. But we aren’t talking about “some parts of Palestine” and we aren’t talking about whether or not some parts are “pretty bad.” Your claim is that "Palestine is not all that “Desperate and impoverished”. I think that is an incorrect claim based on the evidence you have cited. I think its an incorrect claim based on everything that we [know](https://www.latimes.com/world/middleeast/la-fg-global-gaza-humanitarian-situation-20180206-story.html). > [@the article](#): > > Speaking via the social media app WhatsApp, Ghraieb recalled how it was not so long ago that the power **stayed on for eight hours each day** , enough time to cook, surf the internet and heat the apartment that he shares with his father and sister. > [@](#): > > Many people have resorted to burning wood and stocking up on blankets to stay warm, Ghraieb said. Generators are available, but few people can afford the fuel to run them. > [@](#): > > Last week, a hospital serving 66,000 people in the northern Gaza Strip halted operations and a children’s medical center reduced its services to a bare minimum. > [@](#): > > According to the World Bank, only 10% of Gaza’s population has access to safe drinking water. The sewage system has broken down and wastewater pollutes the aquifer that flows beneath Gaza. > > The 1.3 million refugees whom UNRWA serves account for about 70% of Gaza’s population of 2 million people. Of these refugees, 77% live in poverty and depend on the U.N. agency for food, Schmale said. > [@](#): > > About 46% the population in Gaza, which covers 141 square miles, is without work. The statistic stands at 64% among young people under the age of 25, and at 77% for women within that group. And unemployment is rising, according to U.N. officials. > [@](#): > > . In January, the Trump administration announced that it was withholding $65 million out of the $125 million of planned funding to the agency — a move that humanitarian officials said would exacerbate the crisis. Can you explain to me how “desperate and impoverished” are unfair characterizations? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/436 "2019-04-15T23:58:15Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Sure, there are _parts_ of Palestine which are pretty bad. There are parts of America that are pretty bad too. That doesnt change the fact that overall, Palestine isnt that bad off. What parts of the West Bank or Gaza have you visited? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/437 "2019-04-16T07:23:32Z")
> [@Ilhan Omar](#): > > Art and architecture have a unique ability to help us connect across our differences and bring people together in important ways. Thinking of the people of Paris and praying for every first responder trying to save this wonder. > > [@Someone "famous" enough to actually be verified on twitter](#): > > The Cathedral containing the Crown of Thorns is just “art and architecture” to > @IlhanMN > . This is the same flippant attitude towards the sacred that ISIS displayed when destroying Palmyra. [https://twitter.com/RaheemKassam/status/1117924026654121984](https://twitter.com/RaheemKassam/status/1117924026654121984) …can we finally accept that Ilhan Omar is going to be the subject of narrative re-framing, lies and propaganda no matter what it is that she says? That even hiring a PR firm would not have saved her here. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/438 "2019-04-16T18:13:25Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …LOL. > > The only evidence you have provided that “Palestine isnt that bad off” are links to literal propaganda and a comparison to places that by some metrics are a little bit worse. > > But we aren’t talking about “some parts of Palestine” and we aren’t talking about whether or not some parts are “pretty bad.” > > Your claim is that "Palestine is not all that “Desperate and impoverished”. > > I think that is an incorrect claim based on the evidence you have cited. I think its an incorrect claim based on everything that we … > … > > … > Can you explain to me how “desperate and impoverished” are unfair characterizations? The Gaza is but a tiny part of Palestine. It occupies 365 km2 of the overall 6,020 km2. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/439 "2019-04-16T18:20:55Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > What parts of the West Bank or Gaza have you visited? :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/440 "2019-04-16T21:15:59Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > The Gaza is but a tiny part of Palestine. It occupies 365 km2 of the overall 6,020 km2. > [@The Jerusalem Post](#): > > With **employment rates at 27.4%** (the highest in the world as per Reuters), and with half of Palestinians under the age of 30 being unemployed, youths the West Bank are losing hope and becoming more **desperate**. > **[As unrest builds, a volcano of violence is waiting to erupt in West Bank](https://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/A-volcano-of-violence-and-unrest-is-waiting-to-erupt-in-the-West-Bank-574010)** > > With employment rates at 27.4%, and with half of Palestinians under the age of 30 being unemployed, youths the West Bank are losing hope and becoming desperate. …how is the characterization “desperate and impoverished” unfair? > [@](#): > > And as long as Palestinians have little hope and have nothing to lose, they are easy pickings for terrorist groups to radicalize and use to carry out more deadly attacks. Ahronheim makes the same argument as iiandyiii. Do you disagree? Can you make a case as to why she is wrong? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568.md?page=21) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568.md?page=23)