# Anti-Semitism and the accusations agains Representative Ilhan Omar. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 5, 2019, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568 "2019-03-05T12:57:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/441 "2019-04-16T23:05:46Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: Why do you take offense at the question? I will say the first time I visited the West Bank, I discovered that reality wasn’t at all like I expected, but far more complex. You are obviously quite well-read on these topics, but when you say things to the effect that the Palestinians should count their blessings, I think asking whether you’ve been there is a totally fair question. And I’m not saying this in a way to imply that if you’ve been there, you’d believe “x, y, and z.” Obviously, many folks have been there who hold a range of views. But I’m asking you to share your experience, to which being snippy isn’t really an answer. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/442 "2019-04-16T23:12:41Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > [As unrest builds, a volcano of violence is waiting to erupt in West Bank - The Jerusalem Post](https://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/A-volcano-of-violence-and-unrest-is-waiting-to-erupt-in-the-West-Bank-574010) > > …how is the characterization “desperate and impoverished” unfair? > > Ahronheim makes the same argument as iiandyiii. Do you disagree? Can you make a case as to why she is wrong? FWIW, I had conversations a couple years ago with Israeli security officials who said word-for-word what you quoted about hopelessness leading to danger. This was during the spate of stabbing a by young Palestinian men who were unaffiliated with violent groups. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2019, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/443 "2019-04-25T03:09:49Z")
Zionists work to deport a human rights worker: > **[Israel Invokes Anti-Boycott Law to Order Human Rights Worker Deported...](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/16/world/middleeast/israel-boycott-deport-hrw.html)** > > The case, involving a Human Rights Watch worker, tests the boundaries of criticism and protest in Israel. The advocacy group will appeal to Israel’s Supreme Court. And Zionists craft laws that attack American-owned businesses that boycott Israel for their beliefs that Israel is acting immorally: > **[US: States Use Anti-Boycott Laws to Punish Responsible Businesses](https://www.hrw.org/news/2019/04/23/us-states-use-anti-boycott-laws-punish-responsible-businesses)** > > Many United States states are using anti-boycott laws and executive orders to punish companies that refuse to do business with illegal Israeli settlements in the West Bank, Human Rights Watch said today. More than 250 million Americans, some 78... Why is it that we have laws in the **United States** that punish **Americans** for boycotting Israel? Is it that Zionists are authoritarian and oppose free speech in America? IDK, ask AIPAC: [https://www.aipac.org/learn/legislative-agenda/agenda-display?agendaid={B499D12C-C5ED-4CA6-93CF-61266D842328}](https://www.aipac.org/learn/legislative-agenda/agenda-display?agendaid=%7BB499D12C-C5ED-4CA6-93CF-61266D842328%7D) ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/444 "2019-05-13T20:53:59Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > I should’ve quoted it but I was on my phone. The reality is that it doesn’t matter how good you are at politics, or how clean you are. Nobody is a robot. If your opponents are willing to be full-on bad-faith bullshit artists and take what you say completely out of context, _you cannot realistically be careful enough to “avoid giving them ammo”_. No matter how good you are at communication, there is nobody in the world who is good enough to go their whole political career without saying something which, taken maliciously out of context, makes you sound bad. The idea that this was somehow “avoidable” is pure victim-blaming. CASE IN POINT. > **[Rashida Tlaib slammed by House GOP over comments on Holocaust, Palestinians](https://www.foxnews.com/politics/rashida-tlaib-holocaust-calming-feeling-house-gop)** > > House Republican leaders called on House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., to "take action" against Rep. Rashida Tlaib, D-Mich., Sunday after Tlaib said that thinking about the Holocaust gave her "kind of a calming feeling." Here’s what Fox News claims Rashida Tlaib said: House Republican leaders called on House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., to “take action” against Rep. Rashida Tlaib, D-Mich., Sunday after Tlaib said that thinking about the Holocaust gave her “kind of a calming feeling” in part because in its aftermath, the Palestinians helped create “a safe haven for Jews.” Here’s what Rashida Tlaib [actually said](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/05/13/republicans-are-ignoring-reality-twist-rep-tlaibs-calming-holocaust-remarks/?utm_term=.87d9a790b48a): TLAIB: “There’s, you know, there’s a kind of a calming feeling, I always tell folks, when I think of the Holocaust and the tragedy of the Holocaust, and the fact that it was my ancestors — Palestinians — who lost their land and some lost their lives, their livelihood, their human dignity, their existence, in many ways, had been wiped out. . . . I mean, just all of it was in the name of trying to create a safe haven for Jews, post-the Holocaust, post-the tragedy and the horrific persecution of Jews across the world at that time." Meanwhile, here’s [Liz Cheney](https://twitter.com/Liz_Cheney/status/1127884369891340293?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1127884369891340293&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Fpolitics%2F2019%2F05%2F13%2Frepublicans-are-ignoring-reality-twist-rep-tlaibs-calming-holocaust-remarks%2F) (sitting member of congress for Wyoming): Here’s @RepRashida direct quote, “There’s a calming feeling I always tell folks when I think of the Holocaust.” And her “history” of what happened after is a fantasy based on lies spread to delegitimize the state of Israel. I believe my point is quite _thoroughly_ made. When you’re dealing with the bad-faith lies of a political party that aims to influence first and foremost through propaganda and ratfucking, it doesn’t matter how carefully you speak. If they want to fuck you, they will. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/445 "2019-05-13T22:34:17Z")
Yeah, that one is bullshit. Republicans suck. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/446 "2019-05-13T22:43:38Z")
I see what she did as no different from what white Americans often do: telling a nice version of history that is not exactly factual. This is just like white politicians saying how nice we were to native Americans and black slaves. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/447 "2019-05-13T22:47:00Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I see what she did as no different from what white Americans often do: telling a nice version of history that is not exactly factual. This is just like white politicians saying how nice we were to native Americans and black slaves. What “nice version” did she tell “that is not exactly factual”? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/448 "2019-05-13T22:55:53Z")
That Palestinians opened their arms to Jews and gave them shelter. I understand as a Palestinian that might be the folk tale she wants to tell herself, and she was probably told something like that by her parents, but it’s not true. The palestinians wanted the Jews dead as much as Hitler did and the leadership allied with Hitler towards that end. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/449 "2019-05-13T22:56:54Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > That Palestinians opened their arms to Jews and gave them shelter. She didn’t say this. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/450 "2019-05-13T22:59:53Z")
I’m not sure what she said then if that’s not the proper interpretation. She does not say that Palestinians provided a safe haven for Jews? What is she saying then? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/451 "2019-05-13T23:01:14Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I’m not sure what she said then if that’s not the proper interpretation. She does not say that Palestinians provided a safe haven for Jews? What is she saying then? She’s saying that while she mourns for the displaced Palestinians her ancestors), at the same time she’s happy that the persecuted Jews were able to establish a safe haven, and so she doesn’t feel as bad as she would otherwise. At least that’s how I interpret it. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/452 "2019-05-13T23:03:36Z")
Okay. Clarification would be nice then, rather than whining about “policing my words”. That’s the society we live in right now and she doesn’t get to be exempt just because of her identity. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/453 "2019-05-13T23:09:39Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Okay. Clarification would be nice then, rather than whining about “policing my words”. That’s the society we live in right now and she doesn’t get to be exempt just because of her identity. The Republican officials criticizing her are so incredibly dishonest and dishonorable that I don’t think there’s any point in trying to seriously address their bullshit attacks. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/454 "2019-05-13T23:20:35Z")
No there isn’t, and Hoyer and Pelosi are doing smart politics there. Make it about GOP dishonesty. But they do have an anti-semitism problem and this will come up again and again. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/455 "2019-05-13T23:23:24Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > But they do have an anti-semitism problem and this will come up again and again. There is an anti-semitism problem in America, but it’s bigger on the right than the left (i.e. praising Charlottesville marchers, etc.). That doesn’t excuse it when it does crop up on the left, but it’s entirely disingenuous for Republicans in congress to make up bullshit like this at the same time they totally ignore Trump and co’s continual and unrepentant bigotry. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/456 "2019-05-13T23:26:46Z")
You speak truth. In fact, their chiming in actually makes it harder for us to legitimately criticize them. Because their bigger platform drowns the Jewish community out. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/457 "2019-05-13T23:36:43Z")
Longer quote: > [@](#): > > Tlaib responded by noting that Holocaust Remembrance Day recently occurred and said, “There’s kind of a calming feeling I always tell folks when I think of the Holocaust, and the tragedy of the Holocaust, and the fact that it was my ancestors, Palestinians, who lost their land and some lost their lives, their livelihood, their human dignity, their existence in many ways, have been wiped out, and some people’s passports.” > > She continued, “I mean, just all of it was in the name of trying to create a safe haven for Jews, post-the Holocaust, post-the tragedy and the horrific persecution of Jews across the world at that time, and I love the fact that it was my ancestors that provided that, right, in many ways. But they did it in a way that took their human dignity away, right, and it was forced on them. And so when I think about a one-state, I think about the fact that, why couldn’t we do it in a better way?” source: [Tlaib charges GOP spreading 'outright lies' about her remarks on the Holocaust and Israel](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/tlaib-defends-remarks-holocaust-israel-charges-gop-spreading-outright-lies-n1005051) How I read that is that she’s saying that when she thinks of what happened to her ancestors, she gets or would get angry, except that then she thinks of the Holocaust, and she realizes why Jews needed a country, so she calms back down. She doesn’t appear to be saying that her ancestors willingly gave their land for that purpose; she’s saying the exact opposite, that it was forced on them. I don’t see any way a one-state solution starting from the current situation would produce anything other than the destruction of most of the Jewish population along with the destruction of a lot of Palestinians in the process. I think she’s naive about that. But I don’t think the speech as quoted above either minimizes the Holocaust or claims that her ancestors willingly gave Jews shelter. Possibly relevant to my viewpoint in this discussion: most of my father’s extended family died in the Holocaust. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/458 "2019-05-14T00:42:32Z")
It is impossible for Americans to understand the truth about the history of Israel and Palestine because we are exposed to pro-Zionist Holocaust guilt. I don’t deny that groups like Hamas have their own agenda and aren’t really helping Palestinians, but we only see the “Hamas is evil” side of it in this country. Too many Spielberg films I guess. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/459 "2019-05-14T01:05:41Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > It is impossible for Americans to understand the truth about the history of Israel and Palestine because we are exposed to pro-Zionist Holocaust guilt. I don’t deny that groups like Hamas have their own agenda and aren’t really helping Palestinians, but we only see the “Hamas is evil” side of it in this country. Too many Spielberg films I guess. WTF? You’ve hit the trifecta: condescending, racist and revisionist. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568/460 "2019-05-14T01:07:26Z")
asahi: > [@](#): > > It is impossible for Americans to understand the truth about the history of Israel and Palestine because we are exposed to pro-Zionist Holocaust guilt. I don’t deny that groups like Hamas have their own agenda and aren’t really helping Palestinians, but we only see the “Hamas is evil” side of it in this country. Too many Spielberg films I guess. Holocaust guilt and Spielberg movies have nothing to do with it. There’s more than enough Arab aggression and terrorism to bias Americans (and others who live in countries with a free press) against sympathy for the Palestinian cause. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568.md?page=22) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-semitism-and-the-accusations-agains-representative-ilhan-omar/830568.md?page=24)