# Anti-SSM argument goes from stupid to... what the heck is this?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [April 10, 2014, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819 "2014-04-10T19:53:49Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)
#### Post date: [April 10, 2014, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/21 "2014-04-10T20:57:01Z")
That reminds me, my son (5yrs old) HAS expressed a desire to go live with one of his classmates, who happens to have lesbian parents. I don’t think their lesbianism is the driving force\*, since he’s never expressed even the slightest curiosity about it, that’s just what the kid’s family is.
\*I’m guessing it’s the cool house and all the Godzilla toys.
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### Author:  [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)
#### Post date: [April 10, 2014, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/22 "2014-04-10T20:59:55Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#):
>
> Even if this is true, customs change. In fact, this very custom is changing, pretty rapidly in fact.
No, it isn’t. SSM is being forced upon the many by the few through idiotic misinterpretations of law by lunatic judges.
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### Author:  [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)
#### Post date: [April 10, 2014, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/23 "2014-04-10T21:03:29Z")
> [@Melchior](#):
>
> No, it isn’t. SSM is being forced upon the many by the few through idiotic misinterpretations of law by lunatic judges.
I know, I just got my notice from the federal government that I am to be forcibly gay married to some random guy! I hope I get to be the “top” occasionally, so I can close my eyes and imagine I’m plowing some chick instead.
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### Author:  [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)
#### Post date: [April 10, 2014, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/24 "2014-04-10T21:04:04Z")
> [@Melchior](#):
>
> If you hear a news report that begins with ‘a Federal judge ruled’ or ‘school officials said’ you know what is to follow is going to be an example of lunacy.
Lord knows I’m critical of school administrations in a lot of cases, but I try not to do so from quite the position of abject ignorance you’re taking here.
The reason why news reports with “school officials said” are usually full of wrong is because when a school official says something crazy, **it makes the news**. It’s the same reason why “a hedge fund manager was a greedy prick” doesn’t appear in news reports.
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### Author:  [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)
#### Post date: [April 10, 2014, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/25 "2014-04-10T21:08:38Z")
This is an example of judicial activism. The question of whether Study A is right or wrong, or that Study B is more persuasive is something to be argued in the state legislature and not determined by a judge.
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### Author:  [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)
#### Post date: [April 10, 2014, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/26 "2014-04-10T21:12:58Z")
> [@Melchior](#):
>
> No, it isn’t. SSM is being forced upon the many by the few through idiotic misinterpretations of law by lunatic judges.
The majority is for SSM these days, and how is a custom defined, if not by the majority?
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### Author:  [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)
#### Post date: [April 10, 2014, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/27 "2014-04-10T21:18:24Z")
> [@Revtim](#):
>
> I know, I just got my notice from the federal government that I am to be forcibly gay married to some random guy! I hope I get to be the “top” occasionally, so I can close my eyes and imagine I’m plowing some chick instead.
You, too? I bet we don’t even get a toaster.
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### Author:  [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)
#### Post date: [April 10, 2014, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/28 "2014-04-10T21:19:45Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#):
>
> The majority is for SSM these days, and how is a custom defined, if not by the majority?
40,000 years of human history means less than a judge acting alone? What the fuck gives him the right to do that? It’s complete insanity. Everybody ‘knows’ what marriage is, and you cannot change the meanings of words just to suit the wishes of idiots.
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### Author:  [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)
#### Post date: [April 10, 2014, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/29 "2014-04-10T21:21:51Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#):
>
> So… huh? They fear the “potential long-term impact of a redefinition of marriage on the children of heterosexual parents”? What the heck does that even MEAN?
As far as I can tell, it’s just “won’t someone think of the children?” but without whatever thing is threatening said children. I assume they’ve come to the conclusion that when they try to make reality-based statements, things don’t go so well.
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### Author:  [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)
#### Post date: [April 10, 2014, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/30 "2014-04-10T21:24:02Z")
> [@Melchior](#):
>
> No, it isn’t. SSM is being forced upon the many by the few through idiotic misinterpretations of law by lunatic judges.
That is untrue. SSM isn’t being forced upon anyone; no one is being obliged to marry any person of his or her own sex. The legalization of SSM only serves to ALLOW people who wish to marry a person of their own choice to do so. Claiming otherwise is like claiming that, by making chocolate cake for dessert tonight, I am forcing my brother who lives three states away to break his diet.
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### Author:  [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)
#### Post date: [April 10, 2014, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/31 "2014-04-10T21:24:03Z")
The Constitution.
Or custom. Either way, it’s all good.
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### Author:  [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)
#### Post date: [April 10, 2014, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/32 "2014-04-10T21:24:07Z")
> [@Melchior](#):
>
> 40,000 years of human history means less than a judge acting alone? What the fuck gives him the right to do that? It’s complete insanity. Everybody ‘knows’ what marriage is, and you cannot change the meanings of words just to suit the wishes of idiots.
Today, the majority ‘knows’ that marriage can include same-sex couples. A hundred years ago, most people ‘knew’ that marriage did not include different-race couples.
What people ‘know’ changes, and has changed, in many cases (like this one) very rapidly.
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### Author:  [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)
#### Post date: [April 10, 2014, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/33 "2014-04-10T21:25:07Z")
> [@Melchior](#):
>
> 40,000 years of human history means less than a judge acting alone? What the fuck gives him the right to do that? It’s complete insanity. Everybody ‘knows’ what marriage is, and you cannot change the meanings of words just to suit the wishes of idiots.
So if it’s the legislative body of a state, or popular referendum, that makes SSM law, then you’re okay with it?
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### Author:  [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)
#### Post date: [April 10, 2014, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/34 "2014-04-10T21:28:03Z")
> [@Melchior](#):
>
> 40,000 years of human history means less than a judge acting alone? What the fuck gives him the right to do that? It’s complete insanity.
Alone? The study was condemned by 200 of the author’s peers. His own department at his university called the study “fundamentally flawed on conceptual and methodological grounds.” An internal audit found “serious flaws and distortions” and said the paper never should have been published. I’m sure you think everyone is in cahoots to force SSM on everyone, but you can’t seriously argue the judge acted alone.
> [@](#):
>
> Everybody ‘knows’ what marriage is, and you cannot change the meanings of words just to suit the wishes of idiots.
This word “everybody,” I do not think it means what you think it means.
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### Author:  [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)
#### Post date: [April 10, 2014, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/35 "2014-04-10T21:28:46Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#):
>
> Today, the majority ‘knows’ that marriage can include same-sex couples. A hundred years ago, most people ‘knew’ that marriage did not include different-race couples.
>
> What people ‘know’ changes, and has changed, in many cases (like this one) very rapidly.
Hilariously…false.
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### Author:  [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)
#### Post date: [April 10, 2014, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/36 "2014-04-10T21:30:23Z")
> [@Melchior](#):
>
> 40,000 years of human history means less than a judge acting alone? What the fuck gives him the right to do that? It’s complete insanity. Everybody ‘knows’ what marriage is, and you cannot change the meanings of words just to suit the wishes of idiots.
This argument, and I hesitate to call it that as the word lends it a credence it doesn’t deserve, remains one of the stupider things you are fond of saying. But if you have evidence of government-sanctioned marital ceremonies occurring in 38,000 BCE, by all means, lay it on me.
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### Author:  [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)
#### Post date: [April 10, 2014, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/37 "2014-04-10T21:33:24Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#):
>
> This argument, and I hesitate to call it that as the word lends it a credence it doesn’t deserve, remains one of the stupider things you are fond of saying. But if you have evidence of government-sanctioned marital ceremonies occurring in 38,000 BCE, by all means, lay it on me.
Melchior is obviously talking about Atlantis. Everybody knows that Zeus sank Atlantis because its elders refused to sanction his fucking Ganymede up the butt.
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### Author:  [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)
#### Post date: [April 10, 2014, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/38 "2014-04-10T21:36:06Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#):
>
> Melchior is obviously talking about Atlantis. Everybody knows that Zeus sank Atlantis because its elders refused to sanction his fucking Ganymede up the butt.
tribal, of course…
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### Author:  [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)
#### Post date: [April 10, 2014, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/39 "2014-04-10T21:37:25Z")
> [@Melchior](#):
>
> Hilariously…false.
Well, I’m convinced. Good job, Melchior!
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### Author:  [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)
#### Post date: [April 10, 2014, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/40 "2014-04-10T21:37:52Z")
Opposition to SSM is about malice, period. There’s no good reason at all to oppose it, which is why the anti-SSM people have consistently failed to come up with one no matter how often they are challenged. It’s one of the most one-sided moral disputes around.
> [@Melchior](#):
>
> What supports all laws regarding marriage?
Human instinct. Marriage is simple the legal recognition and formalization of the human tendency to form romantic bonds, which is something same gender couples are just as capable of as any straight couple.
> [@](#):
>
> If you throw this out, then laws against bigamy or marrying your sister or a dog will be subject to the same process, for their foundation is no different.
Dogs aren’t consenting adults, bigamy is arbitrary, and there are potential genetic issues with having children with your sister.
> [@](#):
>
> What about laws against murder?
Murder has a victim.
> [@Melchior](#):
>
> 40,000 years of human history means less than a judge acting alone? What the fuck gives him the right to do that? It’s complete insanity. Everybody ‘knows’ what marriage is, and you cannot change the meanings of words just to suit the wishes of idiots.
A silly argument. Marriage has been very different in different places and times. It was changed much more quite recently in the West; only a few decades ago marriage wasn’t much more than a master and slave relationship between a male master and his female slave.
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