# Anti-SSM argument goes from stupid to... what the heck is this? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 10, 2014, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819 "2014-04-10T19:53:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/441 "2014-04-12T01:54:22Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > Oh? Well if the use of \*\*argument \*\*matters I certainly have no competition here. I do not think that word means what you think it means. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/442 "2014-04-12T01:56:37Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > that was not the question. Answer the question as stated. Why should he? You certainly don’t. Go back to your home Mr. Underbridge. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/443 "2014-04-12T01:59:00Z")
> [@chiroptera](#): > > So you have no coherent argument. Gotcha. > Why don’t you just _say_ so? Sad part is, he apparently voted to deny loving couples a suite of legal protections under law not for religious or ideological reasons, but because he didn’t like the _word_ used to describe their relationship. How sad and petty is that. ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/444 "2014-04-12T02:01:32Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Sad part is, he apparently voted to deny loving couples a suite of legal protections under law not for religious or ideological reasons, but because he didn’t like the _word_ used to describe their relationship. How sad and petty is that. what do you mean, ‘relationship’? There is no ‘relationship’. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/445 "2014-04-12T02:02:12Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > what do you mean, ‘relationship’? There is no ‘relationship’. That is literally insane thinking. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/446 "2014-04-12T02:02:47Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > what do you mean, ‘relationship’? There is no ‘relationship’. Good grief you are just too cute. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/447 "2014-04-12T02:03:24Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > what do you mean, ‘relationship’? There is no ‘relationship’. So now two gay people not only can’t be married but they’re not even in a loving relationship? That’s a pretty dehumanizing thing to say. Seriously, what’s wrong with you? Still ignoring my arguments in post 303, eh? ---
**Author:** ![chiroptera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@chiroptera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chiroptera)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/448 "2014-04-12T02:03:31Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Sad part is, he apparently voted to deny loving couples a suite of legal protections under law not for religious or ideological reasons, but because he didn’t like the _word_ used to describe their relationship. How sad and petty is that. Indeed. And still no response to post #303, which means he is incapable of coming up with a rebuttal. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/449 "2014-04-12T02:03:40Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > what do you mean, ‘relationship’? There is no ‘relationship’. So you’re saying a couple who has lived together for years has no relationship? I thought you cared about the definitions of words… ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/450 "2014-04-12T02:05:16Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > So you’re saying a couple who has lived together for years has no relationship? > > I thought you cared about the definitions of words… Can’t wait to tell my partner we have no relationship. After 13 years, I’m not sure how he’ll react. I’m sure Melchior will be able to explain it to him. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/451 "2014-04-12T02:05:32Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > what do you mean, ‘relationship’? There is no ‘relationship’. Man you really do love to redefine words to meet your views. You realize pretty much everyone else in the world has no objection to the term “relationship” in regard to same sex, um, “friendships” I guess we have to call them now? You don’t get to redefine every damn word in the English language, you do realize that, correct? ---
**Author:** ![chiroptera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@chiroptera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chiroptera)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/452 "2014-04-12T02:06:14Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > what do you mean, ‘relationship’? There is no ‘relationship’. Whut? I generally avoid the “my dad was gay” argument, but mine was, and this statement is beyond fucking stupid and insensitive. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/453 "2014-04-12T02:07:12Z")
> [@Antinor01](#): > > Can’t wait to tell my partner we have no relationship. After 13 years, I’m not sure how he’ll react. I’m sure Melchior will be able to explain it to him. It’s a cargo-cult relationship. You’ve been duped by reactionary judges and the PC liberal elites (pleased to meet you) into being convinced you love each other and deserve equal protection under the law. What weak-willed fools you are! ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/454 "2014-04-12T02:07:19Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > Man you really do love to redefine words to meet your views. > You realize pretty much everyone else in the world has no objection to the term “relationship” in regard to same sex, um, “friendships” I guess we have to call them now? > You don’t get to redefine every damn word in the English language, you do realize that, correct? These are relationships: Father-son Mother-daughter Husband-wife Creditor-debtor In modern parlance (Cosmopolitan Magazine-speak) ‘relationship’ means some ‘third thing’, which is of course an absurdity. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/455 "2014-04-12T02:10:02Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > These are relationships: > > Father-son > Mother-daughter > Husband-wife > Creditor-debtor Boss-employee Aunt-nephew Next door neighbor-next door neighbor Boyfriend-boyfriend Spouse-spouse Teacher-student Doctor-patient Wheeeeee, this is fun! ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/456 "2014-04-12T02:10:34Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > It’s a cargo-cult relationship. You’ve been duped by reactionary judges and the PC liberal elites (pleased to meet you) into being convinced you love each other and deserve equal protection under the law. > > What weak-willed fools you are! That must be it. I guess I only thought I knew I was gay at 5, heard the word gay and what it meant in my teens (yes I was sheltered), then had a total of 3 serious relationships…this one being 13 years where we own property together because of those damned judges and Liberals! Thank you for showing me the light! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/457 "2014-04-12T02:10:40Z")
There is actually an interesting linguistic argument to be had about the difference between prescriptivist and descriptivist ways of constructing meaning within different interpretive communities. But it’s pretty clear that Melchior only is interested in definitions to the extent that they allow him to pretend that he’s opposed to gay marriage for purely intellectual reasons. He doesn’t really care about the deeper epistemological implications of his position. I suspect in real life he’s accustomed to being the “deep thinker” in his peer group. He’s used to people nodding along with his “smart” arguments. He’s never actually had to defend them in wider circles though, so he’s unaccustomed to being challenged or the rigors of debate. ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/458 "2014-04-12T02:14:29Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > There is actually an interesting linguistic argument to be had about the difference between prescriptivist and descriptivist ways of constructing meaning within different interpretive communities. But it’s pretty clear that Melchior only is interested in definitions to the extent that they allow him to pretend that he’s opposed to gay marriage for purely intellectual reasons. He doesn’t really care about the deeper epistemological implications of his position. > > I suspect in real life he’s accustomed to being the “deep thinker” in his peer group. He’s used to people nodding along with his “smart” arguments. He’s never actually had to defend them in wider circles though, so he’s unaccustomed to being challenged or the rigors of debate. An interesting challenge, but unfortunately false. I have published in \*Semiotica \*and demolished the inept arguments of philosophy PhDs. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/459 "2014-04-12T02:16:48Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > These are relationships: > > Father-son > Mother-daughter > Husband-wife > Creditor-debtor > > In modern parlance (Cosmopolitan Magazine-speak) ‘relationship’ means some ‘third thing’, which is of course an absurdity. Once again you bastardize the English language to meet your narrow requirements necessary for supporting your absurd opinions. I fear soon we will be arguing the meaning of “up”, “down”, “left”, “right”, etc. when you find it convenient to abuse language. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/460 "2014-04-12T02:17:20Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > An interesting challenge, but unfortunately false. I have published in \*Semiotica \*and demolished the inept arguments of philosophy PhDs. That at least explains why you’re hung up on…but that’s what the word marriage means! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819.md?page=22) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819.md?page=24)