# Anti-SSM argument goes from stupid to... what the heck is this? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 10, 2014, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819 "2014-04-10T19:53:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 25
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/481 "2014-04-12T02:43:21Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > I am referring to \*legal \*relationships. > [@Antinor01](#): > > Like the legal relationship that people in same sex marriages have in over a dozen states in the US, plus numerous other countries. Go on with your point. As **Antinor01** points out these are legally recognized relationships. What word will you now redefine to suit you needs, or are you willing to admit you were mistaken? ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/482 "2014-04-12T02:43:32Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > No, it’s actually semantic development. I know you don’t want to accept it, but the English-speaking world really is changing the use of the word “marriage” such that it can include same-sex couples. No, it is not. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/483 "2014-04-12T02:43:52Z")
From [Merriam-Webster](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/marriage): > [@](#): > > a (1) : the state of being united to a person of the opposite sex as husband or wife in a consensual and contractual relationship recognized by law (2) : \*\* the state of being united to a person of the same sex in a relationship like that of a traditional marriage \\*\* > b : the mutual relation of married persons : wedlock > c : the institution whereby individuals are joined in a marriage ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/484 "2014-04-12T02:44:54Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > No, it is not. Yes it is. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/485 "2014-04-12T02:46:15Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > From Webster’s Third New International dictionary: From Webster’s: [the state of being united to a person of the same sex in a relationship like that of a traditional marriage](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/marriage) ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/486 "2014-04-12T02:46:48Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > From [Merriam-Webster](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/marriage): I would say they are merely reporting the recent propaganda. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/487 "2014-04-12T02:47:43Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > No, it is not. Just because you keep saying it does not make it so. ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/488 "2014-04-12T02:47:50Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > From Webster’s: From Webster’s Third New International dictionary: Main Entry:mat£ri£mo£ny Pronunciation:_ma.tr\*\*m_n\*, -ni, chiefly Brit -r_m_n- Function:noun Inflected Form:-es Etymology:Middle English matrimony, matrimoigne, from Middle French matremoine, matremoigne, from Latin matrimonium, from matr-, mater mother \* more at MOTHER 1 a : the union of man and woman as husband and wife : married state : married life : MARRIAGE b : this union entered into by baptized persons and so viewed by several large Christian churches as constituting one of the sacraments 2 a : a card game played with a layout in which certain combinations of cards occur on which bets are placed b : a combination of a king and queen in this game Main Entry:mar£riage Pronunciation:_marij, -r_j also \*mer- Function:noun Inflected Form:-s Etymology:Middle English mariage, from Middle French, from marier to marry + -age \* more at MARRY 1 a : the state of being united to a person of the opposite sex as husband or wife b : the mutual relation of husband and wife : WEDLOCK c : the institution whereby men and women are joined in a special kind of social and legal dependence for the purpose of founding and maintaining a family — see MONOGAMY, POLYGAMY 2 : an act of marrying or the rite by which the married status is effected : WEDDING; especially : the wedding ceremony and attendant festivities or formalities — compare BEENA MARRIAGE, COEMPTIO, CONFARREATION, LEVIRATE 3 : an intimate or close union 4 : MARITAGE 5 : the combination of a king and queen of the same suit (as in pinochle) — see ROYAL MARRIAGE ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/489 "2014-04-12T02:48:19Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > An interesting challenge, but unfortunately false. I have published in \*Semiotica \*and demolished the inept arguments of philosophy PhDs. There are abundant reasons to be found in this thread for doubting your claim here. Will you substantiate it by giving us the name of an article so it can be verified? If you prefer not to do it in public, I can give you my word that if you tell me an article by PM, and then I find your contact information as the author of that article and contact you for verification that that person is indeed you, **Melchior** , then I will confirm your claim here without telling anyone who you are. ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/490 "2014-04-12T02:49:45Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > There are abundant reasons to be found in this thread for doubting your claim here. Will you substantiate it by giving us the name of an article so it can be verified? > > If you prefer not to do it in public, I can give you my word that if you tell me an article by PM, and then I find your contact information as the author of that article and contact you for verification that that person is indeed you, **Melchior** , then I will confirm your claim here without telling anyone who you are. I would be very reluctant to do that. I don’t trust you. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/491 "2014-04-12T02:49:54Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > I would say they are merely reporting the recent propaganda. So when you quote Webster it’s valid, when others quote Webster it’s propaganda. It’s clear you have no interest in arguing in good faith. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/492 "2014-04-12T02:50:22Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > I would say they are merely reporting the recent propaganda. And you would be wrong. Merriam-Webster changes and updates word definitions based on how words are actually used. The word “marriage” really has changed. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/493 "2014-04-12T02:52:47Z")
I’ll just note that Webster’s Third New International Dictionary was published in 1961. **Melchior** – do you have any definitions from a dictionary published in, say, the last few years? ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/494 "2014-04-12T02:54:27Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > I would be very reluctant to do that. I don’t trust you. You’re not even holding your own against a bunch of random folks on the internet. The idea that you have handed some PhD’s their ass is suspect at best and that’s being generous to a fault. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/495 "2014-04-12T02:55:43Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > I would be very reluctant to do that. I don’t trust you. I am a longstanding and generally respected member (I think!) of this forum. If I betrayed you, my reputation here would be ruined. Everyone here would think me a jerk, and the biggest rule around here is “don’t be a jerk.” ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/496 "2014-04-12T02:56:02Z")
I doubt you’ll address it but I’ll repeat myself anyway… > [@zoid](#): > > As **Antinor01** points out these are legally recognized relationships. > What word will you now redefine to suit you needs, or are you willing to admit you were mistaken? ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/497 "2014-04-12T02:57:00Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > You’re not even holding your own against a bunch of random folks on the internet. > The idea that you have handed some PhD’s their ass is suspect at best and that’s being generous to a fault. It’s not such a great distinction that I claim, because it’s not all that hard. Most of them are not that good. There is a great deal of mediocrity in academe. You act as though I were claiming some special distinction. Hardly. When everyone else is a “2” it’s easy to be a “4”. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/498 "2014-04-12T02:58:32Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’ll just note that Webster’s Third New International Dictionary was published in 1961. > > **Melchior** – do you have any definitions from a dictionary published in, say, the last few years? That’s quite recent considering he had us going back to medieval times. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/499 "2014-04-12T02:59:15Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > There are abundant reasons to be found in this thread for doubting your claim here. Will you substantiate it by giving us the name of an article so it can be verified? I’m sure it wasn’t just an article. He probably won the Mouton d’Or. Twice. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/500 "2014-04-12T03:01:58Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > It’s not such a great distinction that I claim, because it’s not all that hard. Most of them are not that good. There is a great deal of mediocrity in academe. You act as though I were claiming some special distinction. Hardly. When everyone else is a “2” it’s easy to be a “4”. So you’re twice as smart as all the PhD’s in the world? Thank you for the clarification. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819.md?page=24) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819.md?page=26)