# Anti-SSM argument goes from stupid to... what the heck is this? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 10, 2014, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819 "2014-04-10T19:53:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 32
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/621 "2014-04-14T17:34:04Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > The \*word \*‘computer’ \*means \*‘that which computes’. And how is that meaning determined? ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/622 "2014-04-14T17:36:19Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > And how is that meaning determined? From the stem ‘compute’ plus the suffix ‘er’ and the rules of word formation. Whatever ‘compute’ means, a ‘computer’ does it. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/623 "2014-04-14T17:36:52Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > Marriage is a way of establishing responsible reproduction and making people accountable for their children. That is part of the intent. This is why the word ‘bastard’ exists: it’s a name for children born outside of marriage. If and when my partner and I have children, I will be responsible for them just as much as she is. Yay gay marriage! (Though actually we’re not married; still, we could be now, and probably will be eventually, and the movement for gay marriage has undoubtedly affected the ability of some same-sex partners to be parents just like some opposite-sex unmarried parents - we wouldn’t have had this option even five years ago). Gay marriage helps procreation, so you have no point. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/624 "2014-04-14T17:37:01Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > From the stem ‘compute’. And how was that determined? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/625 "2014-04-14T17:38:16Z")
What delights me about Melchior’s argument is how isolating it is. He’s just claiming that he cannot comprehend language and is trying to demand that we act like we can’t understand language in order to humor him. It’s like watching someone try to hold back the tide by putting up a hand and screaming at it to stop. ETA: Or rather like someone faking deafness in the middle of a conversation. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/626 "2014-04-14T17:38:21Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > From the stem ‘compute’ plus the suffix ‘er’ and the rules of word formation. And how is the meaning of the stem “compute” determined? What determines the link between signifier and signified? ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/627 "2014-04-14T17:38:28Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > And how was that determined? Etymology ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/628 "2014-04-14T17:42:59Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > Etymology Right. Etymology. ‘the study of the origin of words and the way in which their meanings have changed throughout history.’ Some one at some time cataloged words based on their usage to assign their meaning. That act of cataloging words was a human endeavor. Word meaning are not like the physical laws of the universe for us to reveal, not create, and are therefore immutable. Words meanings have and do change over time, often to lose archaic definition and included expanded uses. Once that happens and the newer usages get cataloged it becomes part of the current meaning of the word. The word root and history doesn’t change, but the current uses very well may. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/629 "2014-04-14T17:45:54Z")
If esteem and patience can be depleted, at least metaphorically (and I have good reason to suppose that they can), I fail to see why honor can’t be. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/630 "2014-04-14T17:47:15Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > Because they are different, as in “not the same”. Things that are not the same should be distinguished semantically. So what word do you use to describe two individuals who are the same sex, have undertaken a marriage ceremony, consider themselves “married” and are considered such by friends, neighbors and the government? How would you describe that situation and that couple, if not married? ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/631 "2014-04-14T17:48:02Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > If esteem and patience can be depleted, at least metaphorically (and I have good reason to suppose that they can), I fail to see why honor can’t be. Nonsense. It can be lost or restored, but not ‘depleted’. ‘Depleted’ refers to physical things (ore, fuel, money, etc.) ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/632 "2014-04-14T17:49:35Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > Nonsense. It can be lost or restored, but not ‘depleted’. ‘Depleted’ refers to physical things (ore, fuel, money, etc.) Energy, courage, reputation, honor. Works for me. Remind me not to read anything this guy has “translated.” ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/633 "2014-04-14T17:50:23Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > Etymology Ooh, convenient. “marriage” comes from the verb “marry,” which ultimately derives from Latin _marītus_ “husband”, which in turn comes from _mās_ “male.” So, just going by etymology, a marriage between two men is obviously more valid than involving a man and a woman. Q. E. D. ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/634 "2014-04-14T17:50:28Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > So what word do you use to describe two individuals who are the same sex, have undertaken a marriage ceremony, consider themselves “married” and are considered such by friends, neighbors and the government? How would you describe that situation and that couple, if not married? I would not think of them at all. More or less cargo-culteees I suppose. Going through the motions but the result is not the genuine article. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/635 "2014-04-14T17:50:46Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > Etymology Just etymology? That sounds like you’re claiming that words have fixed meanings that don’t change over time. Would that be a correct interpretation of your position? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/636 "2014-04-14T17:52:43Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > That is short-hand. The \*word \*‘computer’ \*means \*‘that which computes’. No, the word ‘computer’ also means ‘digital electronic computer’. Dictionaries don’t stop at 1961. English has since evolved. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/637 "2014-04-14T17:53:21Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > Nonsense. It can be lost or restored, but not ‘depleted’. ‘Depleted’ refers to physical things (ore, fuel, money, etc.) I agree, I think of honor as a binary state, you have it or you don’t. However, I disagree that only physical attributes can be depleted. Non-discrete items can be depleted and patience would fall under that category- you have have a lot of patience or just a little. You can start with a lot of patience and have it be used up, hence depleted. But who cares- hardly relevant to this conversation. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/638 "2014-04-14T17:53:50Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > I would not think of them at all. More or less cargo-culteees I suppose. Going through the motions but the result is not the genuine article. That would put you in the minority in the USA. And since usage determines language, you are incorrect about the meaning of the word “marriage”. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/639 "2014-04-14T17:54:15Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > Going through the motions but the result is not the genuine article. Not up to speed on the concept of illocutionary speech acts, are you? ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/640 "2014-04-14T17:55:16Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > I would not think of them at all. More or less cargo-culteees I suppose. Going through the motions but the result is not the genuine article. What does the genuine article look like? Is the “genuine article” most importantly defined by the types of genitalia of the people involved? So, two people who live apart, barely speak, have had sex once and produced no children are the genuine article when one has a penis and one a vagina? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819.md?page=31) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819.md?page=33)