# Anti-SSM argument goes from stupid to... what the heck is this? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 10, 2014, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819 "2014-04-10T19:53:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 34
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/661 "2014-04-14T19:38:10Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Usage by American English speakers. And my statement is backed up by polling statistics. A majority of Americans use the word “marriage” to include same-sex unions. Which cannot be used to affect the law. You cannot appeal to this (which I seriously doubt is true anyway) as a criterion of the lawfulness of such ‘marriages’. ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/662 "2014-04-14T19:40:04Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > Melchior seems to believe that the meaning of a word is determined entirely by the history of a word. How he squares this belief with the fact that the meanings of words change all the time is beyond me. But not by petition or protest, and that’s the important issue. Besides, it does not matter one whit as to the legal standing of such ‘marriages’ if people don’t use the scare quotes. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/663 "2014-04-14T19:40:47Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > Which cannot be used to affect the law. You cannot appeal to this (which I seriously doubt is true anyway) as a criterion of the lawfulness of such ‘marriages’. I thought your pint was that same sex marriages didn’t exist. Nor your complaining how the change occurred. Thus, you must acknowledge they exist. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/664 "2014-04-14T19:44:03Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > Which cannot be used to affect the law. You cannot appeal to this (which I seriously doubt is true anyway) as a criterion of the lawfulness of such ‘marriages’. We don’t need to use the definition to affect the law. We can use the law to affect the law, and ethics to affect the law. Language reflects (and influences, certainly) the development of ideas. BTW, where are you from? If it’s the US, you use non-traditional punctuation, which I’m assuming you would view as a killing offense. ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/665 "2014-04-14T19:44:50Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I thought your pint was that same sex marriages didn’t exist. Nor your complaining how the change occurred. Thus, you must acknowledge they exist. I don’t. I used the word in scare quotes: ‘marriage’. For reference, putting a word in quotes means that you are really just quoting what someone else said and do not accept it. ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/666 "2014-04-14T19:46:03Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > We don’t need to use the definition to affect the law. We can use the law to affect the law, and ethics to affect the law. Language reflects (and influences, certainly) the development of ideas. > > BTW, where are you from? If it’s the US, you use non-traditional punctuation, which I’m assuming you would view as a killing offense. I use British punctuation out of habit because American punctuation is stupid. I live in Klmbuss Ahia. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/667 "2014-04-14T19:46:22Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > Which cannot be used to affect the law. Unless the law is changed by vote or legislative action, which happens all the time. 11 states (and Washington DC) have recognized same-sex marriage through those means in the last five years, and several more may join them in November. ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/668 "2014-04-14T19:47:26Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Unless the law is changed by vote or legislative action, which happens all the time. 11 states (and Washington DC) have recognized same-sex marriage through those means in the last five years, and several more may join them in November. ‘Marriage’ please. Scare quotes are required. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/669 "2014-04-14T19:47:27Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > I use British punctuation out of habit because American punctuation is stupid. That’s priceless. Oh, semiotician of great worth and skill, you are _priceless_. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/670 "2014-04-14T19:49:04Z")
So in real life how do you refer to same-sex people who are legally married in the states and countries that allow them? Do you say they have a “cargo cult marriage” or some other nonsense? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/671 "2014-04-14T19:49:19Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > ‘Marriage’ please. Scare quotes are required. Or else he’ll scare quote you a second time! ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/672 "2014-04-14T19:49:44Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > That’s priceless. > > Oh, semiotician of great worth and skill, you are _priceless_. I mean, really, how can the comma or period come before the quote is closed? “I’m not going,” he said. “I was without food and you gave me some fries.” Does that make \*any \*sense at all? ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/673 "2014-04-14T19:52:11Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > So in real life how do you refer to same-sex people who are legally married in the states and countries that allow them? Do you say they have a “cargo cult marriage” or some other nonsense? Yep, that’s what she is. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/674 "2014-04-14T19:53:09Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > Does that make \*any \*sense at all? So not making sense bothers you all of a sudden? Son, I have some bad news for you. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/675 "2014-04-14T19:54:36Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > ‘Marriage’ please. Scare quotes are required. They’re never required. They’re popular with shitty writers, though. ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/676 "2014-04-14T19:56:26Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > They’re never required. They’re popular with shitty writers, though. I am merely pointing that the usage is controversial, and the scare quotes makes that clear. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/677 "2014-04-14T19:57:39Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > But not by petition or protest, and that’s the important issue. A curious qualification of your own invention. Lexicographers make no such distinctions. (Interestingly, the one lexicographer I happen to know personally was married to another man. This proved very important when his spouse had a fatal accident several years ago. Without the protections of marriage, dealing with the unexpected death of his husband would have been far more difficult and harrowing.) ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/678 "2014-04-14T19:58:06Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > So in real life how do you refer to same-sex people who are legally married in the states and countries that allow them? Do you say they have a “cargo cult marriage” or some other nonsense? He already said exactly that to me earlier in this thread. So far, his opinion has had zero effect on the rights and privileges afforded to me and my husband by our marriage. Also note that he completely ignored my posting the etymology of “marriage,” as it doesn’t suit his pre-conceived notions. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/679 "2014-04-14T19:58:37Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > I am merely pointing that the usage is controversial, and the scare quotes makes that clear. If that were true they’d be called controversy quotes. ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/680 "2014-04-14T20:01:18Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > If that were true they’d be called controversy quotes. Scare quotes have several functions. Maybe that is too complicated for you. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scare\_quotes](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scare_quotes) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819.md?page=33) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819.md?page=35)