# Anti-SSM argument goes from stupid to... what the heck is this? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 10, 2014, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819 "2014-04-10T19:53:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 35
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/681 "2014-04-14T20:02:54Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > Scare quotes have several functions. Maybe that is too complicated for you. So does marriage. > **[Marriage](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage)** > > Marriage, also called matrimony or wedlock, is a culturally and often legally recognised union between people called spouses. It establishes rights and obligations between them, as well as between them and their children (if any), and between them and their in-laws. It is nearly a cultural universal, but the definition of marriage varies between cultures and religions, and over time. Typically, it is an institution in which interpersonal relationships, usually sexual, are acknowledged or sa A... ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/682 "2014-04-14T20:03:26Z")
And with being utterly ignored and having watched this thread go round and round, you **Melchior** have become tedious. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/683 "2014-04-14T20:06:13Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > And with being utterly ignored and having watched this thread go round and round, you **Melchior** have become tedious. On the bright side, not one additional person has come to his defense. He is truly a lone wolf on this issue. That enhances my opinion of humanity. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/684 "2014-04-14T20:06:23Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > And with being utterly ignored and having watched this thread go round and round, you **Melchior** have become tedious. Which was his plan all along - it’s how he ‘wins’ against all of those smarty pants #2 PHDs… ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/685 "2014-04-14T20:07:42Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > On the bright side, not one additional person has come to his defense. He is truly a lone wolf on this issue. That enhances my opinion of humanity. Has any of you seen anything of this kind from me? I have seen nothing but personal attacks here. Very little argument. Typical. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/686 "2014-04-14T20:10:01Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > Scare quotes have several functions. Maybe that is too complicated for you. Signifying that a concept is controversial is not one of them. I’ll quote a self-appointed expert on the matter: > [@Melchior](#): > > For reference, putting a word in quotes means that you are really just quoting what someone else said and do not accept it. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/687 "2014-04-14T20:10:18Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > Has any of you seen anything of this kind from me? I have seen nothing but personal attacks here. Very little argument. Typical. What argument there has been you ignore. It shows that the people choosing to not engage you in debate are smarter than I. Sad part is, I actually have more respect for people who oppose SSM from an ideological point of view. I still believe they are wrong, but their opposition is internally consistent and can be discussed and debated. The absurd “logic” used by this poster shifts with the wind, is based on nothing recognizable and serves to continuing deny people their rights for capricious reasons. Shameful, really. ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/688 "2014-04-14T20:11:49Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Signifying that a concept is controversial is not one of them. I’ll quote a self-appointed expert on the matter: That’s what ‘controversial’ means. Duh. It means: “NOT EVERYONE ACCEPTS IT”, especially the author. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/689 "2014-04-14T20:13:23Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > I have seen nothing but personal attacks here. Very little argument. Typical. Totally untrue. And you’ve seen plenty of arguments because you’ve dragged this discussion out for probably 40 pages across a handful of threads without ever making an argument more coherent than “that’s not what this word means.” In that sense you’ve gotten more argument than is required because you’re not really putting forth an argument in the first place. You’re just making a false assertion. > [@Melchior](#): > > That’s what ‘controversial’ means. Duh. It means: “NOT EVERYONE ACCEPTS IT”, especially the author. You can’t even sustain this nonsense for three sentences, and one of the sentences was “Duh.” Controversial is not the opposite of unanimous. It means a subject that is hotly debated. Scare quotes don’t mean “this is controversial.” They mean “the author doesn’t believe this.” Somehow you just acknowledged that while you were in the middle of denying it, which is impressively self-defeating. For example if I put ‘gravity’ in scare quotes it wouldn’t mean I think the matter is controversial, it would mean I personally don’t believe in gravitation. Which is very silly, but no sillier than appointing myself Pope of the Dictionary. ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/690 "2014-04-14T20:14:50Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > What argument there has been you ignore. It shows that the people choosing to not engage you in debate are smarter than I. ‘choosing not to’ is better ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/691 "2014-04-14T20:15:02Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > That’s what ‘controversial’ means. Duh. It means: “NOT EVERYONE ACCEPTS IT”, especially the author. And you’re wrong again - it means “giving rise or likely to give rise to public disagreement” (first google hit) - Disagreement does not necessarily have anything to do with acceptance. I may disagree with the IRS and taxes - but I accept that they are part of life in America. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/692 "2014-04-14T20:16:05Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > ‘choosing not to’ is better Oh look, he thinks he’s speaking Latin while punctuating like the English and being American. Too cute. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/693 "2014-04-14T20:16:27Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > Has any of you seen anything of this kind from me? I have seen nothing but personal attacks here. Very little argument. Typical. The only reason your getting a “personal attack” is because your advance a position that 1) ignores all facts and reason, and 2) seeks to diminish the rights of many of our fellow citizens. There isn’t much to “argue” with. You don’t know (or refuse to admit) what the word marriage means. Have you noticed that your position has not been endorsed by _anyone_ else. That’s unusual for all but the craziest points of view. Think about that for awhile. Really. givethat some thought. ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/694 "2014-04-14T20:16:42Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Totally untrue. And you’ve seen plenty of arguments because you’ve dragged this discussion out for probably 40 pages across a handful of threads without ever making an argument more coherent than “that’s not what this word means.” In that sense you’ve gotten more argument than is required because you’re not really putting forth an argument in the first place. You’re just making a false assertion. There is a very clear sense of what a marriage is, and the word represents the custom. Violating the usage or custom does not obligate anyone else to recognize it, nor does complaining to a judge about it. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/695 "2014-04-14T20:17:24Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > ‘choosing not to’ is better hilarious. ---
**Author:** ![Gedd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gedd/32/4938_2.png) [@Gedd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gedd)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/696 "2014-04-14T20:18:22Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > I use British punctuation out of habit because American punctuation is stupid. I live in Klmbuss Ahia. Oh goodness. I apologize to all the other dopers out there for this one. I know our state has had some North Carolina moments in the past few years, but we’re trying to fix that. Please don’t judge my town based on this one . . . person [I’m using my own definition in my mind]. You can be confident that his votes on this issue will be canceled by me and one-upped by my spouse. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/697 "2014-04-14T20:18:53Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > And with being utterly ignored and having watched this thread go round and round, you **Melchior** have become tedious. Can one really become something one already is? ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/698 "2014-04-14T20:19:21Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > ‘choosing not to’ is better Ok. I’m a scientist. I spend my life asking people to look at what I do and see if I’m wrong. My ego is not wrapped up in tenaciously holding onto some desperately held version of truth. > [@Melchior](#): > > There is a very clear sense of what a marriage is, and the word represents the custom. Violating the usage or custom does not obligate anyone else to recognize it, nor does complaining to a judge about it. It’s also doesn’t prohibit people from recognizing it, and as such, change the custom. And that is where we are today. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/699 "2014-04-14T20:20:18Z")
> [@Gedd](#): > > Oh goodness. > > I apologize to all the other dopers out there for this one. I know our state has had some North Carolina moments in the past few years, but we’re trying to fix that. Please don’t judge my town based on this one . . . person [I’m using my own definition in my mind]. You can be confident that his votes on this issue will be canceled by me and one-upped by my spouse. I moved away from Ohio for other reasons, but now I feel that it was really just to get away from Melchior. Prescience is underrated. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/700 "2014-04-14T20:20:46Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Oh look, he thinks he’s speaking Latin while punctuating like the English and being American. > > Too cute. Even the English require terminal punctuation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819.md?page=34) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819.md?page=36)