# Anti-SSM argument goes from stupid to... what the heck is this? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 10, 2014, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819 "2014-04-10T19:53:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 39
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/761 "2014-04-15T01:23:44Z")
Now that we’re in the Pit, **Melchior** , I’d like to take this opportunity to express my utter contempt for you. You are not brave enough to be an honest bigot. Instead, you hide behind pathetic and illogical semantic arguments. You and others like you have made my life as a gay man really difficult at times. Not all men are interested in having sex with women. Other than that, we are men just like you, and we deserve the same rights that you have. That includes the right to choose a mate and form a household and have society recognize that with society’s term for partnered people running households. I’m sorry that you don’t like it, but you are insufficiently educated in history or anthropology or linguistics to make the arguments you are making. My marriage is a real one, and I expect you to man up and apologize to me for the insult when you said it was a “Cargo-Cult marriage.” ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/762 "2014-04-15T01:30:40Z")
Oh yea, we’re in the pit now so I can just openly mock him. Melchior, you do sound like you’re fairly smart in an academic sense. (ok, that part wasn’t mocking) When it comes to common sense or even relating to other people, you’re clearly an idiot. Like it or not, gay people are being married every single day and they are real marriages. You can rail about it all you like, but you lose. Words change, customs change. You may not like it, but most of us don’t give a flying fuck. You lose. Get over it. I don’t have to present an argument, but when I have a marriage license from the state of California…I will be married. And just for the hell of it; You didn’t answer last time it was asked…but how old are you? For a 2nd question, have you ever been in a serious relationship or married? ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/763 "2014-04-15T01:34:03Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > My marriage is a real one, and I expect you to man up and apologize to me for the insult when you said it was a “Cargo-Cult marriage.” You expect a limp-dicked asshole like Mel to man up? Good luck with that. He a douchebag who ignores and argument he can’t rebut, replies with the weak-ass “not an argument” to anything else, and tries to torture language to suit his needs. Plus he’s yet another mental midget who acts as if he’s superior when he can’t hold his own against a bunch of random strangers on the internet. ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/764 "2014-04-15T01:35:13Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > Now that we’re in the Pit, **Melchior** , I’d like to take this opportunity to express my utter contempt for you. > > You are not brave enough to be an honest bigot. Instead, you hide behind pathetic and illogical semantic arguments. You and others like you have made my life as a gay man really difficult at times. > > Not all men are interested in having sex with women. Other than that, we are men just like you, and we deserve the same rights that you have. That includes the right to choose a mate and form a household and have society recognize that with society’s term for partnered people running households. I’m sorry that you don’t like it, but you are insufficiently educated in history or anthropology or linguistics to make the arguments you are making. > > My marriage is a real one, and I expect you to man up and apologize to me for the insult when you said it was a “Cargo-Cult marriage.” I make no apologies. Save your contempt for others. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/765 "2014-04-15T01:36:49Z")
Deleted ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/766 "2014-04-15T01:37:02Z")
> [@Antinor01](#): > > Oh yea, we’re in the pit now so I can just openly mock him. > > Melchior, you do sound like you’re fairly smart in an academic sense. (ok, that part wasn’t mocking) When it comes to common sense or even relating to other people, you’re clearly an idiot. Like it or not, gay people are being married every single day and they are real marriages. You can rail about it all you like, but you lose. Words change, customs change. You may not like it, but most of us don’t give a flying fuck. You lose. Get over it. I don’t have to present an argument, but when I have a marriage license from the state of California…I will be married. > > And just for the hell of it; You didn’t answer last time it was asked…but how old are you? For a 2nd question, have you ever been in a serious relationship or married? No, these are not ‘real marriages’. Cargo Cult marriages. ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/767 "2014-04-15T01:38:09Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > I asked whether he’d be cool with creating a legal arrangement that had the same requirements and ramifications as marriage, but was (a) open to same-sex couples, and was (b) called either \*marriage \* or, well, _something other than marriage_; would the name be the entirety of his objection? > > He replied “Yes, it is the entirety of my objection. You could create something new (or perhaps just use adoption or Power of Attorney or a business partnership contract) that would take care of many of the wants. But it is not and cannot be ‘marriage’.” Correct. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/768 "2014-04-15T01:38:43Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > No, these are not ‘real marriages’. Cargo Cult marriages. Didn’t think you had any better. No one gives a shit what you think. I also didn’t think you’d answer my questions. As mentioned earlier, you’re a chicken shit that hides behind the ‘meaning’ of words. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/769 "2014-04-15T01:39:30Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > No, these are not ‘real marriages’. Yes, they are. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/770 "2014-04-15T01:39:52Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > I make no apologies. Save your contempt for others. See, I told you guys we’d get to "“pbbbbbth” as an argument. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/771 "2014-04-15T01:40:34Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > No, these are not ‘real marriages’. Cargo Cult marriages. If one accomplishes literally everything that a given opposite-sex marriage does, then what makes one a cargo-cult marriage and the other the genuine article? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/772 "2014-04-15T01:40:34Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Even **Melchior** seems to have no problem with legal recognition of a status which is identical in every way to marriage so long as it’s called something other than marriage. How can one believe that when one believes they cannot even have a relationship? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/773 "2014-04-15T01:40:36Z")
What does the phrase “Cargo Cult marriage” even mean? Do you imagine that they just wait for something to fall out of the sky? Two men in a marriage work at it every day, exactly the same as any other married couple. Where is the “magic thinking” that is so definitive of a Cargo Cult? It seems to me that it’s just an insult for insult’s sake. The Pit is where garbage like that belongs. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/774 "2014-04-15T01:40:58Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Yes, they are. No they’re not. Wait, yes they are. Damn it all, I’m getting confused now. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/775 "2014-04-15T01:43:10Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > How can one believe that when one believes they cannot even have a relationship? Presumably he believes they have something otherwise indistinguishable from a relationship, which is functionally identical to a relationship, but which he can’t bring himself to actually call “a relationship,” though by any other name et cetera and so on. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/776 "2014-04-15T01:44:00Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Presumably he believes they have something otherwise indistinguishable from a relationship, which is functionally identical to a relationship, but which he can’t bring himself to actually call “a relationship,” though by any other name et cetera and so on. I’ve heard similar from the far right christians. They typically say things like 'homosexuals are just playing house". ---
**Author:** ![oft\_wears\_hats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@oft\_wears\_hats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oft_wears_hats)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/777 "2014-04-15T01:47:33Z")
I don’t have much more to add at this point, but now that we’re in The Pit, I’d just like to say this to **Melchior** : I’m eagerly awaiting the day that you get your shiny, new, all-caps title and your post count immortalized in bronze. You’ve been detrimental to intelligent discourse on this board since the day you arrived and started spewing your pedantic claptrap in that thread about intelligent life evolving in the ocean. Now it’s gotten to the point where it’s apparently impossible for the rest of us to have a discussion about same-sex marriage without you coming in and hijacking the thread with the same bullshit over and over again. To paraphrase a much older post by and about a different user (for whom I have much to disagree with, but still far more respect): “You’re just a fucking puppet. We can pull the strings and you do the same little dance.” This board is poorer for having you. You will not be missed. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/778 "2014-04-15T01:47:55Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > No, these are not ‘real marriages’. Cargo Cult marriages. Which part of his marriage lacks authenticity? The love? The commitment? The legal protections afforded them? Or is it simply the absence of a vagina of one of the spouses? ---
**Author:** ![F.Pu-du-he-pa-as](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c89c15/32.png) [@F.Pu-du-he-pa-as](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.Pu-du-he-pa-as)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/779 "2014-04-15T01:48:32Z")
I was going to sit this one out, **Melchior** , until your refusal to apologize to **Dr. Drake**. It’s one thing to denigrate an abstract group of people. It’s quite another to insult someone personally after they’ve bared their humanity to you. I _like_ **Dr. Drake** and our many other LGBT posters, darn it-- I like you guys a lot! So: I despise your bigotry and your willful ignorance, **Melchior**. What a hateful person you are. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819/780 "2014-04-15T01:52:52Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > No, these are not ‘real marriages’. Cargo Cult marriages. You know, **BPC** raised a pretty decent point in post 741 when he analyzed your use of that term. I’d like to see you address his observation, and justify your continued use of it, in light of the following: > [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Of course, the thing about the cargo cults was that in the end, the difference was between getting the end result and not getting the end result. With the SSM folks, the difference is between getting the end result and getting something which is indistinguishable from the end result. Or can you provide any functional difference between a same-sex marriage and a heterosexual marriage that would interest those involved? I mean, even if you wouldn’t call it a marriage, to them, it is. And it confers all the same legal benefits, and societal benefits, and the like. So… how is this comparable to the cargo cults, where the meaningful difference is instantly apparent (the planes never landed)? Would you be good enough to oblige? > [@Melchior](#): > > I make no apologies. Save your contempt for others. While I’m sure **Dr. Drake** appreciates your concern, he’s a grown man; he strikes me as quite well-qualified to decide where to spend his contempt. And if he depletes his stores, I’m equally sure that a great many other posters will be happy to lend him some of theirs. Excuse me, _ours_. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819.md?page=38) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-ssm-argument-goes-from-stupid-to-what-the-heck-is-this/685819.md?page=40)