# Anti-Trump bigot? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 10, 2016, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-trump-bigot/762355 "2016-08-10T16:12:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-trump-bigot/762355/121 "2016-08-12T14:59:17Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Again, demonstrably wrong conclusion. Historically, progressives have been the ones on the side of improving social safety nets for the disadvantaged in society, regardless of political affiliation. Conservatives have traditionally been less so. I am under the impression that **davida03801** ’s “Spoken as a true progressive” was sarcastic, but he can clarify himself. ---
**Author:** ![dreamregent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6f9a4e/32.png) [@dreamregent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dreamregent)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-trump-bigot/762355/122 "2016-08-12T16:59:20Z")
> [@Eddie The Horrible](#): > > I cannot fucking stand Trump supporters (almost wanna pit this). Their inexcusable fucking ignorance, fear, and gullibility is, as far as I’m concerned, the most frightening cultural/political phenomenon I have ever beared (bore?) witness to. > Their hatred is making me invoke hatred, too, albeit right back at them, though. > So if I’m expressing hate at a particular group, I’m guessing that falls under the definition of bigot. > But really, though? > Is it possible to be intolerant of intolerance? If you examine dictionaries thoroughly, you will find there are essentially 2 parts to the composition of bigotry. However, first, you must examine the term _intolerant_, for which there seems to be two general senses. In one sense, _intolerant_ is used generically without regard to whether it’s reasonably justified (e.g. a law banning murder could be described as intolerance of murder) and, in the other sense, it entails an unreasonable justification. The second sense is essentially a synonym of bigotry. Generally, you will find that bigotry consists of simple intolerance paired with an unreasonable justification. This unreasonable justification is usually described as prejudice (drawing conclusions without evidence) or obstinance in the face of contrary evidence but I’ve also seen it described as merely “unreasonable” as well. Because of this, one can’t be “bigoted” against bigotry because it is not unreasonable to refuse to tolerate bigotry (because bigotry itself is defined as an unreasonable point-of-view). ---
**Author:** ![davida03801](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5e925/32.png) [@davida03801](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davida03801)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-trump-bigot/762355/123 "2016-08-12T19:09:44Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I am under the impression that **davida03801** ’s “Spoken as a true progressive” was sarcastic, but he can clarify himself. 10 4 ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-trump-bigot/762355/124 "2016-08-12T19:12:10Z")
> [@Eddie The Horrible](#): > > And saying that most intolerant people you know are overbearing liberals and progressives both in real life and here online has immediately reduced your credibility to zero - typical partisan potshot (yawn), where obviously the inverse can be stated, and with more credibility. So much irony wrapped up in this short post. I think I’ll save it for posterity. ---
**Author:** ![davida03801](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5e925/32.png) [@davida03801](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davida03801)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-trump-bigot/762355/125 "2016-08-12T19:45:25Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Again, demonstrably wrong conclusion. Historically, progressives have been the ones on the side of improving social safety nets for the disadvantaged in society, regardless of political affiliation. Conservatives have traditionally been less so. Political parties change over time. Back in the 1840’s it was the Democrats that supported slavery, and in the years after the Civil War it was the Democrats that ran the south bringing about the Jim Crow laws, encouraged the KKK, and in any way possible keeping black folk down. This you can’t deny as the history is pretty clear. This era only ended in that 1980’s when the last of the old line southern dems in the Senate became gone. It was a Democrat of Robert Byrd who was the last former proud member of the KKK in the US Senate. It was the Republicans under Lincoln that freed the slaves, and under T Roosevelt in the 1890’s that broke up the trusts. Additionally all of the civil rights legislation, and other social legislation, of the 1960’s would not have passed without Republican support. In fact the civil rights legislation had a higher percentage of Republican votes than Democrat. So to say that only libs, democrats and progressives are the ones on the side of improving the cause of those down is bullshit, and historically not accurate. Furthermore from the point of view of those whose incomes have dropped a significant percentage in the past 10-12 years, or who in that great mass of people no longer working but want to, plus a whole other series of issues it seems to them the Dems, libs and progressives of the world are concerned with everything else except them. ---
**Author:** ![dreamregent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6f9a4e/32.png) [@dreamregent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dreamregent)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-trump-bigot/762355/126 "2016-08-12T20:07:02Z")
> [@davida03801](#): > > Political parties change over time. > > Back in the 1840’s it was the Democrats that supported slavery, and in the years after the Civil War it was the Democrats that ran the south bringing about the Jim Crow laws, encouraged the KKK, and in any way possible keeping black folk down. This you can’t deny as the history is pretty clear. This era only ended in that 1980’s when the last of the old line southern dems in the Senate became gone. It was a Democrat of Robert Byrd who was the last former proud member of the KKK in the US Senate. > > It was the Republicans under Lincoln that freed the slaves, and under T Roosevelt in the 1890’s that broke up the trusts. Additionally all of the civil rights legislation, and other social legislation, of the 1960’s would not have passed without Republican support. In fact the civil rights legislation had a higher percentage of Republican votes than Democrat. > > So to say that only libs, democrats and progressives are the ones on the side of improving the cause of those down is bullshit, and historically not accurate. > > Furthermore from the point of view of those whose incomes have dropped a significant percentage in the past 10-12 years, or who in that great mass of people no longer working but want to, plus a whole other series of issues it seems to them the Dems, libs and progressives of the world are concerned with everything else except them. Your post demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of political history. In specific, you appear to have coupled the qualities of liberalism and conservatism to political parties when this is improper in a historical context. Today, this is often the way our parties are conceptualized, and rightly so. However, in Lincoln’s day, the Republicans were generally considered the liberal party and Democrats were the conservative party. Indeed the term “Radical Republicans” indicates that portion of the party would properly be considered “far left” on a modern left/right scale. Over most of American history, however, our parties were not so polarized. Indeed, individual parties have often included liberal and conservative wings on various classes of issues. For instance, when you say Republicans voted for the Civil Rights Act in 1964, that is true but those folks were generally social liberals in the vein of Rockefeller & Eisenhower. The social conservatives at that time were heavily concentrated in the Democratic Party, particularly in the south (hence, the reason filibusters against civil rights legislation were lead by southern Democrats). Those folks are still concentrated in the southern states but they’ve since switched their allegiance to the Republican party. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-trump-bigot/762355/127 "2016-08-12T22:32:47Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > But you did make observations about his experience. I don’t recall him saying anything about his own experience(s) for me to comment on - you’ll have to fill me in on exactly what those experiences of his were. > [@Velocity](#): > > You haven’t lived his life or had his personal interactions. How do you know he’s not being truthful about his experience? He can be truthful however much he wants about his own experience - since when would I call that into question? > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > So much irony wrapped up in this short post. I think I’ll save it for posterity. Then you disagreed with that statement, then? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2016, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-trump-bigot/762355/128 "2016-08-13T00:32:29Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > So is the OP an example of bigotry then? Certainly there are some Trump supporters guilty of “inexcusable fucking ignorance, fear, and gullibility”, but not ALL of them. Bigotry then? > [@QuickSilver](#): > > Can you provide an example of a Trump supporter who isn’t motivated by one of the above? > > I’m genuinely curious in what that supporter profile would look like. I can provide an example, or rather, several dozen (that I know of). I have union brothers and sisters who are going to vote for Donald Trump and they are not motivated by ignorance, fear or gullibility. I described them [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=785863). They are angry and disillusioned. They feel they’ve been cheated and lied to for decades. And they don’t give a flying fuck about the system because as far as they’re concerned, the system isn’t working as it is anyway. It’s important to understand this, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![davida03801](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5e925/32.png) [@davida03801](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davida03801)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2016, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-trump-bigot/762355/129 "2016-08-13T11:49:00Z")
> [@dreamregent](#): > > Your post demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of political history. In specific, you appear to have coupled the qualities of liberalism and conservatism to political parties when this is improper in a historical context. Today, this is often the way our parties are conceptualized, and rightly so. However, in Lincoln’s day, the Republicans were generally considered the liberal party and Democrats were the conservative party. Indeed the term “Radical Republicans” indicates that portion of the party would properly be considered “far left” on a modern left/right scale. Over most of American history, however, our parties were not so polarized. Indeed, individual parties have often included liberal and conservative wings on various classes of issues. For instance, when you say Republicans voted for the Civil Rights Act in 1964, that is true but those folks were generally social liberals in the vein of Rockefeller & Eisenhower. The social conservatives at that time were heavily concentrated in the Democratic Party, particularly in the south (hence, the reason filibusters against civil rights legislation were lead by southern Democrats). Those folks are still concentrated in the southern states but they’ve since switched their allegiance to the Republican party. Did you read the 1st line of what I said ? Appears not. You are agreeing to my point that political parties change roles over time. Perhaps another change is coming along now. Who knows and time will tell, but signs are there as I view the political landscape. There are many Trump supporters that fit in the old Regan Democrat mode. There is also a great many other types who no longer feel the Democrat party represents their interests. The Dem elites are interested in everyone else except the concerns of the average guy. That is as I see it at the moment. Trump is tapping into that. Will he pull it off remains to be seen. However the OP puts out a blanket statement that all Trump supporter are ignorant, racists, and bigoted plus some other insults. That most certainly not true. They are looking out for their own self interests and no longer see the Dems as a solution for them. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2016, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-trump-bigot/762355/130 "2016-08-13T14:34:40Z")
> [@davida03801](#): > > However the OP puts out a blanket statement that all Trump supporter are ignorant, racists, and bigoted plus some other insults. That most certainly not true. They are looking out for their own self interests and no longer see the Dems as a solution for them. With all the anger and betrayal that a Trump supporter has _rightfully_ felt, to then sublimate that disillusion by buying into the ludicrous Trump platform is, at best, not in their best interests. If they think Clinton is dishonest and won’t represent their needs, then they’re in for one nasty fucking surprise if Trump gets in office. And it will be their fault that such a loathesome piece of shit got voted in there in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![dreamregent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6f9a4e/32.png) [@dreamregent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dreamregent)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2016, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-trump-bigot/762355/131 "2016-08-14T10:48:00Z")
> [@davida03801](#): > > Did you read the 1st line of what I said ? Appears not. You are agreeing to my point that political parties change roles over time. Absolutely, but I disagree with the historical association of liberalism and progressiveness to the Democratic party. Consider the post you were responding to: > [@QuickSilver](#): > > Again, demonstrably wrong conclusion. Historically, progressives have been the ones on the side of improving social safety nets for the disadvantaged in society, regardless of political affiliation. Conservatives have traditionally been less so. And within your response, you stated the following: > [@davida03801](#): > > So to say that only libs, democrats and progressives are the ones on the side of improving the cause of those down is bullshit, and historically not accurate. If fact, QuickSilver’s statement is historically accurate. He did not associate the Democrats with liberalism and progressiveness, historically. You did that. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2016, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-trump-bigot/762355/132 "2016-08-14T11:01:24Z")
Say, why don’t we deal with what Democrats and Republicans are doing and saying in 2016 instead of what they did and said a hundred and fifty years ago? I think that might be a little more germain to the conversation. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2016, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-trump-bigot/762355/133 "2016-08-14T14:50:08Z")
Returning to point this out to **davida03801** , but I see others were kind enough to do it for me: > [@dreamregent](#): > > Absolutely, but I disagree with the historical association of liberalism and progressiveness to the Democratic party. > > If fact, QuickSilver’s statement is historically accurate. He did not associate the Democrats with liberalism and progressiveness, historically. You did that. > [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Say, why don’t we deal with what Democrats and Republicans are doing and saying in 2016 instead of what they did and said a hundred and fifty years ago? I think that might be a little more germain to the conversation. As to this: > [@davida03801](#): > > Perhaps another change is coming along now. Who knows and time will tell, but signs are there as I view the political landscape. There are many Trump supporters that fit in the old Regan Democrat mode. The news sources I read say quite the opposite. Trump is the antithesis to Reagan in so many ways. I can’t quite reconcile what a Reagan Democrat would find in common with Trump’s policies. Particularly those pertaining with his admiration of a Russian authoritarian. > [@davida03801](#): > > There is also a great many other types who no longer feel the Democrat party represents their interests. The Dem elites are interested in everyone else except the concerns of the average guy. That is as I see it at the moment. > Trump is tapping into that. Will he pull it off remains to be seen. That sentiment explains the popularity of Bernie Sanders in this election. Now that Bernie is no longer in the running, I would like to see reliable data that shows these folks are embracing Trump in statistically significant numbers. > [@davida03801](#): > > However the OP puts out a blanket statement that all Trump supporter are ignorant, racists, and bigoted plus some other insults. That most certainly not true. They are looking out for their own self interests and no longer see the Dems as a solution for them. It seems a reasonable conclusion to draw given abundant evidence of bigoted and factually unsupported rhetoric that Trump consistently promulgates to loud approving cheers of adoring crowds at his conventions. It may very well be in their own self interest to scapegoat immigrants and minorities for their economic and social challenges, but that just makes them either ignorant or bigoted, or both. Thus, QED. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2016, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-trump-bigot/762355/134 "2016-08-20T18:45:22Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Which of the Republican establishment candidates have a platform that includes building a wall with Mexico, deporting 11 million illegal immigrants and banning all muslims from entry? I don’t think he would do any of those things Talk is cheap especially if Trump is the one doing the talking. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2016, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-trump-bigot/762355/135 "2016-08-21T20:27:52Z")
If we were talking about religious followers of a particular person, whose religion just became a thing in the past couple of years, I think we’d make the same determinations. In fact, we have basically done so by hating the Westboro Baptist Church. It’s really hard for me to call it bigotry when, at this point, the only reason to follow Trump is that you support what he is saying. And what he is saying is wrong. It’s not like most religions where you were raised in it, and come from a long line of people who were raised in it. People like to bring up Islam, so I will, too. It’s possible for someone to stay a Muslim but get rid of the bad beliefs they were raised in. But if you get rid of the beliefs that come with Trumpism, what reason is there to actually support Trump? Now, this doesn’t mean that attacking people for being Trump supporters is good, and perhaps that is enough to call something bigoted–that attacking them for it is unhelpful. But even I find it hard to allow the word to be weakened that much. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2016, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-trump-bigot/762355/136 "2016-08-21T20:36:11Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I can provide an example, or rather, several dozen (that I know of). > > I have union brothers and sisters who are going to vote for Donald Trump and they are not motivated by ignorance, fear or gullibility. I described them [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=785863). > > They are angry and disillusioned. They feel they’ve been cheated and lied to for decades. And they don’t give a flying fuck about the system because as far as they’re concerned, the system isn’t working as it is anyway. > > It’s important to understand this, IMO. If they’ve been cheated and lied to for _decades_, that seems to be pretty strong evidence that they are, in fact, ignorant and gullible. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-trump-bigot/762355.md?page=6)