# Anti-Trump protesters stream torture of mentally disabled person on Facebook Live **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 5, 2017, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-trump-protesters-stream-torture-of-mentally-disabled-person-on-facebook-live/776384 "2017-01-05T14:02:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-trump-protesters-stream-torture-of-mentally-disabled-person-on-facebook-live/776384/141 "2017-01-06T21:15:47Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > In all fairness to lev, is there any evidence he did it as a false flag? We know (at least, the police are confident enough to arrest and accuse him) the arsonist was a member of the church. Do we know he’s a Clinton supporter, or a liberal, or a Democrat for that matter? I’ve been told repeatedly that some African-Americans voted for Trump, by posters on this very board. > > I do harbor a special hatred for those who attack or burn down churches, so I hope this guy gets the book thrown at him. Maybe the judge will give him a harsh sentence too. That’s what I’m wondering. Maybe I missed something in the news, but all I know is he burned his own church, but that doesn’t make it a hoax. It’s entirely possible the guy is a rabid Trumpist. ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-trump-protesters-stream-torture-of-mentally-disabled-person-on-facebook-live/776384/142 "2017-01-06T21:31:35Z")
> [@Corry\_El](#): > > It’s sophistry IMO to try to compare accidents v. deliberate crimes with ‘non racially motivated’ deliberate crimes v ‘racially motivated’ deliberate crimes. > > There’s a shred of validity there, on the usual basis of ‘if we started the legal system today’. But in the real world of eons of distinguishing if a person acted deliberately, and distinguishing when they decided to act (in cold blood beforehand v in the heat of the moment), distinguishing a supposed ‘hate’ motive separate from that is a recent and IMO highly dubious add on. > > This Chicago case IMO demonstrates it just as much as the ‘normal’ type of ‘hate crime’ where the perpetrators are white, straight white, white male etc. The ‘hate crime’ finding just ramps up the political circus. > > Call it inconsistent if you want and bask in outmaneuvering the anti- ‘hate crime’ side with superior logic but I still think: > -hit and kill your loved one with a car by accident: accident, though there might be lesser criminal liability if there’s negligence. > -hit them on purpose knowing who they were, with forethought: premeditated murder. > -hit them on purpose because of their ‘race’: shouldn’t be in a separate legal category IMO. It might be an aggravating factor in a sentencing decision just like any number of other factors might be. So you are agreeing that crimes based on what a person is thinking should be tried differently? Then you’re agreeing with my point and disagreeing with **Darren Garrison** ’s point. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-trump-protesters-stream-torture-of-mentally-disabled-person-on-facebook-live/776384/143 "2017-01-06T21:40:25Z")
> [@stpauler](#): > > So you are agreeing that crimes based on what a person is thinking should be tried differently? Then you’re agreeing with my point and disagreeing with **Darren Garrison** ’s point. No, he’s disagreeing with the straw me that you’ve constructed. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-trump-protesters-stream-torture-of-mentally-disabled-person-on-facebook-live/776384/144 "2017-01-06T22:06:12Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > So we’re going to do stupid now. _Now_ ? I thought Donpeyote’s schtick was “stupid” from the beginning. Did he have a golden age of wisdom that I slept through? ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-trump-protesters-stream-torture-of-mentally-disabled-person-on-facebook-live/776384/145 "2017-01-06T22:09:21Z")
> [@stpauler](#): > > So you are agreeing that crimes based on what a person is thinking should be tried differently? Then you’re agreeing with my point and disagreeing with **Darren Garrison** ’s point. You’re conflating the effect with the action/intent. Person A (accident) didn’t intend to kill anyone. He fell asleep at the wheel, lost control on ice/snow/rain/whatever, dodged a stray animal crossing the street, was possibly under the influence, wasn’t paying attention to a pedestrian in the crosswalk, whatever. Unfortunately, his action (previous sentence) caused the death of someone. This person could be guilty of manslaughter, depending on the situation and egregiousness of his negligence. Person B ran down someone he hated (for whatever reason), causing the death of someone. This person could be guilty of murder, seeing as the effect was the intended result of his action. I’m still unsure where I stand on hate crimes, because both sides have valid arguments and pitfalls. The analogy doesn’t fit the discussion, however. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-trump-protesters-stream-torture-of-mentally-disabled-person-on-facebook-live/776384/146 "2017-01-06T22:42:33Z")
> [@Donpeyote](#): > > Swarthy towel heads , Arabs …:dubious: **Moderating** Hate speech is prohibited even in the Pit. Buh-bye. Colibri ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-trump-protesters-stream-torture-of-mentally-disabled-person-on-facebook-live/776384/147 "2017-01-06T22:44:22Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > We’re not quite clear – could you give us a few more examples? Apparently, he… cannot. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-trump-protesters-stream-torture-of-mentally-disabled-person-on-facebook-live/776384/148 "2017-01-06T22:46:53Z")
I’m leery of hate crimes laws… but I also think there are situations in which they’re very appropriate. We punish acts based (loosely) on how harmful they are, and how much we hope they never happen again. Joe spray paints a penis on a church. What damage is done? Well, the church is embarrassed and has to clean the penis off. So we arrest and punish Joe. Jack spray paints a swastika on a synagogue. What damage is done? The entire congregation is going to worry about their safety. Neo-nazis in the community will feel emboldened. Even if the purely monetary physical damage is the same as the penis on the church, the actual damage done to the community is far far greater. Therefore it makes sense to punish Jack more severely. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-trump-protesters-stream-torture-of-mentally-disabled-person-on-facebook-live/776384/149 "2017-01-06T22:49:05Z")
Banned name! ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-trump-protesters-stream-torture-of-mentally-disabled-person-on-facebook-live/776384/150 "2017-01-06T23:00:44Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > That’s what I’m wondering. Maybe I missed something in the news, but all I know is he burned his own church, but that doesn’t make it a hoax. It’s entirely possible the guy is a rabid Trumpist. So - a “Trumpist” in your opinion would burn his own church and spray paint “Vote Trump” on it? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-trump-protesters-stream-torture-of-mentally-disabled-person-on-facebook-live/776384/151 "2017-01-06T23:15:04Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > So - a “Trumpist” in your opinion would burn his own church and spray paint “Vote Trump” on it? Well, we know of Trumpists who are dependent on the ACA and voted for the guy promising to repeal it, so that’s a potentially more suicidal decision than trashing a church… ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-trump-protesters-stream-torture-of-mentally-disabled-person-on-facebook-live/776384/152 "2017-01-06T23:38:29Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > You’re conflating the effect with the action/intent. > > Person A (accident) didn’t intend to kill anyone. He fell asleep at the wheel, lost control on ice/snow/rain/whatever, dodged a stray animal crossing the street, was possibly under the influence, wasn’t paying attention to a pedestrian in the crosswalk, whatever. Unfortunately, his action (previous sentence) caused the death of someone. This person could be guilty of manslaughter, depending on the situation and egregiousness of his negligence. > > Person B ran down someone he hated (for whatever reason), causing the death of someone. This person could be guilty of murder, seeing as the effect was the intended result of his action. > I’m still unsure where I stand on hate crimes, because both sides have valid arguments and pitfalls. The analogy doesn’t fit the discussion, however. Is there a difference in a drunk driving accident versus a distracted driver accident? Both are accidents but we consider the state of mind in the former to be of interest in the crime of the accident. The point remains that what a person is or is not thinking is and should be a factor in prosecution. Either way, the daughter is killed, we have created social constructions that determine the rationale of the death to be of interest. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2017, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-trump-protesters-stream-torture-of-mentally-disabled-person-on-facebook-live/776384/153 "2017-01-07T03:14:08Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > **Moderating** > > Hate speech is prohibited even in the Pit. Buh-bye. > > Colibri Good riddance. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-trump-protesters-stream-torture-of-mentally-disabled-person-on-facebook-live/776384.md?page=7)