# Anti-TSA Activist claims she was groped during security search. What's the goal? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 28, 2013, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-tsa-activist-claims-she-was-groped-during-security-search-whats-the-goal/659553 "2013-05-28T16:32:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-tsa-activist-claims-she-was-groped-during-security-search-whats-the-goal/659553/21 "2013-05-28T23:35:51Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I think that it would have no substantial effect on the risk one way or the other. I further think that people need to accept that fact. So currently we know for a fact that bad guys have devised plots specifically aimed at circumventing metal detectors to smuggle bombs on planes. Right? And your suggested action for TSA is to say, “Get used to it, people!” Thank god you aren’t in charge of anything. That type of negligence borders on the criminal, in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-tsa-activist-claims-she-was-groped-during-security-search-whats-the-goal/659553/22 "2013-05-28T23:38:13Z")
> [@Southern\_Yankee](#): > > What is it that the TSA does that is so bad? In my experience, people who ping the metal detector or refuse the body scanner (as the woman in the video in the OP did) get the personal search. Otherwise you go through the metal detector or the scanner and are on your way if nothing shows up. > > Are they randomly pulling people out of line to do pat downs? I haven’t seen that, but I don’t fly that often. > > Now, whether or not those personal searches are effective or not, I can’t argue. **Inconsistent enforcement**. Objects that are passed through one airport get confiscated at the next. **Incompetence searches.** Numerous instances of travelers forgetting a weapon on their person or carry-on that’s missed by the TSA. Failed to find 30% of test bombs and weapons carried by undercover testers. \*\*Theft.\*\*Our own **Tripler** (who is a bomb disposal tech in the military) lost some of his tools to the TSA. **Unprofessional conduct.** Pretty much covers the gamut from rude remarks to power plays. ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-tsa-activist-claims-she-was-groped-during-security-search-whats-the-goal/659553/23 "2013-05-28T23:51:19Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > **Inconsistent enforcement**. Objects that are passed through one airport get confiscated at the next. > > **Incompetence searches.** Numerous instances of travelers forgetting a weapon on their person or carry-on that’s missed by the TSA. Failed to find 30% of test bombs and weapons carried by undercover testers. > > \*\*Theft.\*\*Our own **Tripler** (who is a bomb disposal tech in the military) lost some of his tools to the TSA. > > **Unprofessional conduct.** Pretty much covers the gamut from rude remarks to power plays. Those seem like management issues to me. Those problems don’t address whether or not airport security itself is _necessary._ ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-tsa-activist-claims-she-was-groped-during-security-search-whats-the-goal/659553/24 "2013-05-29T00:13:06Z")
While I think a lot of the security procedures we have at our airports are silly, though thankfully we haven’t followed the Israeli lead, I can’t help but be reminded of the debates on gun control. We have one group of people terrified of crime arguing for placing regulations that are seen as a major inconvenience while another seems to be veering between “those give up liberty for security gain neither” to “since these regulations don’t stop all gun murderers/terrorist incidents what’s the point of these disgusting violations of my constitutional rights” with some who seem to border on saying “what’s the point of having these regulations if the criminals still manage to get around them.” Of course they’re a bunch of libertarians saying “you realize you referred to us twice, right.” ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-tsa-activist-claims-she-was-groped-during-security-search-whats-the-goal/659553/25 "2013-05-29T00:15:39Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > So currently we know for a fact that bad guys have devised plots specifically aimed at circumventing metal detectors to smuggle bombs on planes. Right? > > And your suggested action for TSA is to say, “Get used to it, people!” > > Thank god you aren’t in charge of anything. That type of negligence borders on the criminal, in my opinion. It’s all window dressing with a lot of $$$$$$ attached. There are an infinite number of ways to accomplish their goal of terrorism. All we’ve managed to do is spend money after the fact to correct the last successful breach of security. The Israelis take a different approach and it has proven more effective. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-tsa-activist-claims-she-was-groped-during-security-search-whats-the-goal/659553/26 "2013-05-29T00:35:56Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Most passengers carry bombs with them nowadays when they travel, and would revolt if they weren’t allowed to, They what? :eek: (BTW, I actually agree with your larger point, but I’m struggling to think what is usually carried on board planes which is, or could be made, a bomb) ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-tsa-activist-claims-she-was-groped-during-security-search-whats-the-goal/659553/27 "2013-05-29T00:51:28Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The Israelis take a different approach and it has proven more effective. They have one major international airport with relatively few destinations. If you’re complaining that thousands of TSA agents are incompetent, where are you going to find that many agents who can carry out the Israeli strategy effectively? It is pure pipe dream to suggest that the US can do what El Al does. And the current TSA budget appears to be less than $8 billion, while press reports indicate Israeli style security would cost upwards of $40 billion. Talk about $$$$$!$$! [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/25/AR2010112502167.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/25/AR2010112502167.html) ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-tsa-activist-claims-she-was-groped-during-security-search-whats-the-goal/659553/28 "2013-05-29T01:24:09Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The Israelis take a different approach and it has proven more effective. When was it proven to be more effective? ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-tsa-activist-claims-she-was-groped-during-security-search-whats-the-goal/659553/29 "2013-05-29T01:35:32Z")
I think the TSA theater is absurd. The terrorists have won. When I am at the airport looking at people with belts and shoes off, frog marching like subjects, I bow my head in shame. We have let those terrorist assholes win through our own fear. Confiscating my shaving cream didn’t make anyone safer earlier this month. ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-tsa-activist-claims-she-was-groped-during-security-search-whats-the-goal/659553/30 "2013-05-29T02:37:25Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > I think the TSA theater is absurd. The terrorists have won. When I am at the airport looking at people with belts and shoes off, frog marching like subjects, I bow my head in shame. We have let those terrorist assholes win through our own fear. > > Confiscating my shaving cream didn’t make anyone safer earlier this month. Nothing they do to you will make us safer, since you aren’t planning on blowing up the plane. A person who considered smuggling a bomb inside a jumbo can of shaving cream may well have been deterred. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-tsa-activist-claims-she-was-groped-during-security-search-whats-the-goal/659553/31 "2013-05-29T02:43:11Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > When was it proven to be more effective?[ they’ve only had 1 successful hijacking]([El Al - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Al)). ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-tsa-activist-claims-she-was-groped-during-security-search-whats-the-goal/659553/32 "2013-05-29T02:53:17Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > they’ve only had 1 successful hijacking. That’s not the most compelling evidence or proof that racial profiling and invasive questioning is the way to go over searching all passengers who get on the plane. EL AL has had several cases of people managing to smuggle contraband onto planes. Beyond that, start telling all airline passengers they should start coming to the airport four hour early and even earlier if they’re the wrong skin tone and I suspect Americans will be considerably less enthusiastic. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-tsa-activist-claims-she-was-groped-during-security-search-whats-the-goal/659553/33 "2013-05-29T03:13:38Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > they’ve only had 1 successful hijacking. In the past 30 years, only five airliners have been hijacked after taking off from a US airport. One was a cargo plane. Whose rate do you think is better? (In 2012, 13 million passengers flew through Ben Gurion airport. The TSA [screens 1.8 million passengers _each day_](http://blog.tsa.gov/2012/08/tsa-year-to-date-report-look-at-year-so.html).) ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-tsa-activist-claims-she-was-groped-during-security-search-whats-the-goal/659553/34 "2013-05-29T03:17:51Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > In the past 30 years, only five airliners have been hijacked after taking off from a US airport. One was a cargo plane. > > Whose rate do you think is better? The one that doesn’t crawl up the passenger’s ass. And of those 30 years how many people have gotten on the plane with a bomb. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-tsa-activist-claims-she-was-groped-during-security-search-whats-the-goal/659553/35 "2013-05-29T03:25:53Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The one that doesn’t crawl up the passenger’s ass. What do you think El Al’s policy is on frisking passengers? ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-tsa-activist-claims-she-was-groped-during-security-search-whats-the-goal/659553/36 "2013-05-29T03:28:36Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The one that doesn’t crawl up the passenger’s ass. Wherever did you get the idea that Israel doesn’t do that? > [@Magiver](#): > > And of those 30 years how many people have gotten on the plane with a bomb. Zero, it looks like. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-tsa-activist-claims-she-was-groped-during-security-search-whats-the-goal/659553/37 "2013-05-29T03:29:11Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > What do you think El Al’s policy is on frisking passengers? I don’t know, maybe you can show us some videos of them them going after grannies in wheel chairs. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-tsa-activist-claims-she-was-groped-during-security-search-whats-the-goal/659553/38 "2013-05-29T03:34:06Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I don’t know, maybe you can show us some videos of them them going after grannies in wheel chairs. Answer the question. If you’re upset about TSA frisking people, are you saying that El Al doesn’t? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-tsa-activist-claims-she-was-groped-during-security-search-whats-the-goal/659553/39 "2013-05-29T04:07:12Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Answer the question. If you’re upset about TSA frisking people, are you saying that El Al doesn’t? Their security is based on training of who and what to look for versus random nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-tsa-activist-claims-she-was-groped-during-security-search-whats-the-goal/659553/40 "2013-05-29T04:07:14Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The one that doesn’t crawl up the passenger’s ass. You’ve never flown El Al have you? Not meant as an insult, but anyone who’s been through the interrogations they subject all their passengers to would find that comment a bit odd. Oh, and if during the “interview” you come across as nervous, hostile or brown-skinned you’ll be subjected to treatment that will make you beg for the TSA. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-tsa-activist-claims-she-was-groped-during-security-search-whats-the-goal/659553.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-tsa-activist-claims-she-was-groped-during-security-search-whats-the-goal/659553.md?page=3)