# anti-vacciantion nutjobs **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 17, 2010, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vacciantion-nutjobs/550526 "2010-08-17T14:25:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2010, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vacciantion-nutjobs/550526/21 "2010-08-19T21:31:03Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > And yet nobody ever makes a joke about Jim Carrey eating pussy in these conversations. Why do you suppose that is? Does Mr. Carrey have an epidemiology credential that I’m not aware of? He was not brought up that I am aware of. The only celebrity I know of who pushes this bullshit is Jenny McCarthy. Doubtless other celebrities join her on this but she seems the face of it. I could be wrong, I do not track celebrities at all for anything and definitely do not track what antivax nutjobs are doing. I do not seek info on antivax at all. Just occasionally it crosses my path while watching the news or something and that is about it. When I see it for some reason I see McCarthy front and center. Maybe I am a male pig who just tends to remember the beautiful woman and not Carrey, who I couldn’t give a fuck about, standing next to her. But as said I barely pay attention anyway. If you want me to trash Carrey for his antivax views I will (assuming he holds that view). They are all assholes on this count. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2010, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vacciantion-nutjobs/550526/22 "2010-08-19T21:39:00Z")
[Here’s a nice website](http://www.jennymccarthybodycount.com/Jenny_McCarthy_Body_Count/Home.html) dedicated to Jenny McCarthy and her involvement in the anti-vaccination movement. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vacciantion-nutjobs/550526/23 "2010-08-20T02:49:00Z")
**Kimmy\_Gibbler** , it was a one-off, one line, tasteless joke. You have now turned it into a serious hijack that serves no point. You will stop, now, and everyone else will also drop that discussion. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vacciantion-nutjobs/550526/24 "2010-08-20T02:50:22Z")
There really is no debate on this topic. I am moving the thread to General Questions where it might pick up some further factual information. (The prohibition against Kimmy’s rant stands even in the new forum.) [/Modding] ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vacciantion-nutjobs/550526/25 "2010-08-20T03:08:35Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > There really is no debate on this topic. > > [/Modding] Applause. There really isn’t a debate here. If your baby can get vaccinated your baby should get vaccinated. The risks of non-vaccination far outweigh the consequences of vaccine preventable diseases. If your baby cannot get vaccinated because of underlying medical reasons you should never encourage non-vaccination for others. All that does up the possibility that your baby or child will be at risk from rotten diseases like whooping cough and measles. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vacciantion-nutjobs/550526/26 "2010-08-20T06:53:46Z")
> [@pope\_hentai](#): > > Can anyone help me out, or am i wrong on this? You are wrong to waste your time on this. People who will believe (and circulate) crap like the stuff on that website are not going to be convinced by any actual scientific, cited info you provide to them. These types generally have an emotional reason for wanting to believe such conspiracy theories, and mere evidence isn’t going to change their mind. They probably won’t have their kids vaccinated, which will increase the odds that the kids will die from such a disease, thus ending that family line, and reducing the amount of stupidity genes in the human race. Tough on your friend, or his kids, but good for the human race in general. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vacciantion-nutjobs/550526/27 "2010-08-20T09:35:23Z")
This blog is a good source information on anti-vaccination nutjobs. [http://depletedcranium.com/?s=vaccine](http://depletedcranium.com/?s=vaccine) ---
**Author:** ![Lazlo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lazlo/32/9678_2.png) [@Lazlo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lazlo)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vacciantion-nutjobs/550526/28 "2010-08-20T11:35:44Z")
Apologies if someone already posted this upthread. I only skimmed. This comic is excellent: > **[The Facts In The Case Of Dr. Andrew Wakefield](http://darryl-cunningham.blogspot.com/2010/05/facts-in-case-of-dr-andrew-wakefield.html)** > > A fifteen page story about the MMR vaccination controversy. Note added August 2013. This chapter, much corrected, is part of my book Scienc... ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vacciantion-nutjobs/550526/29 "2010-08-20T12:36:01Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > They probably won’t have their kids vaccinated, which will increase the odds that the kids will die from such a disease, thus ending that family line, and reducing the amount of stupidity genes in the human race. Tough on your friend, or his kids, but good for the human race in general. The problem with this, apart from the fact that the kids have done nothing to be made to suffer for the ignorance of their parents, is that vaccinated kids are put at risk too. The success of immunization depends on having such a high coverage rate (“herd immunity”) that the existence of a few people who are unprotected doesn’t matter - isolated cases won’t get the chance to develop into a full-blown outbreak. There are always going to be folks in whom vaccines won’t be protective (no vaccine works 100%) as well as (hopefully) a tiny percentage who don’t get their shots due to religious conviction or whatever. It’s when the latter group balloons in size (as in Britain as a result of the fake MMR scare, when measles resurged) that epidemics are given a chance - and the vaccinated but not fully protected can get sick as well as the unvaccinated. ---
**Author:** ![Heart\_of\_Dorkness](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/4bbf92/32.png) [@Heart\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heart_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vacciantion-nutjobs/550526/30 "2010-08-20T13:19:59Z")
> [@Lazlo](#): > > Apologies if someone already posted this upthread. I only skimmed. > > This comic is excellent: > > [Darryl Cunningham Investigates: The Facts In The Case Of Dr. Andrew Wakefield](http://darryl-cunningham.blogspot.com/2010/05/facts-in-case-of-dr-andrew-wakefield.html) Thanks, **Lazlo** , that really is excellent. I was only expecting a little three-panel gag about anti-vaxers, but it’s actually more like a short (and damning) investigative reporting piece about Dr. Andrew Wakefield, with illustrations. Great read. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vacciantion-nutjobs/550526/31 "2010-08-20T15:24:33Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > All that does up the possibility that your baby or child will be at risk from rotten diseases like whooping cough and measles. Yep…say hello to an outbreak of whooping cough: > [@](#): > > Monday, August 16th 2010 > > It’s back with a deadly vengeance. > > Whooping cough – which doctors believed vaccines had eradicated – has already killed seven babies in California, and more than 2,700 cases have been reported there this year alone, according to NPR. > > The epidemic on the West Coast has medical experts questioning why some parents opt not to vaccinate their children. In three California schools, 80 percent of the parents signed a “personal belief exemption” that kept their kids from receiving the vaccine, according to the California Department of Public Health. > > Read more: [http://www.nydailynews.com/lifestyle/health/2010/08/16/2010-08-16\_its\_back\_whooping\_cough\_outbreaks\_cause\_vaccination\_flap.html#ixzz0x9zEZtGt](http://www.nydailynews.com/lifestyle/health/2010/08/16/2010-08-16_its_back_whooping_cough_outbreaks_cause_vaccination_flap.html#ixzz0x9zEZtGt) ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vacciantion-nutjobs/550526/32 "2010-08-20T15:40:33Z")
> [@moejoe](#): > > um, cite? > **[Outbreak of Measles --- San Diego, California, January--February 2008](https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm57e222a1.htm)** > **[pediatricsupersite.com](http://www.pediatricsupersite.com/view.aspx?rid=62471)** > > This domain may be for sale! A voluntarily unvaccinated 7 year old boy spread measles in San Diego. He infected 11 children, including three babies under a year of age. 70 children were quarantined for 21 days “because their parents either declined measles vaccination or they were too young to be vaccinated.” A total of 839 people were exposed. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vacciantion-nutjobs/550526/33 "2010-08-20T16:23:44Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > > [@pope\_hentai](#): > > > > Can anyone help me out, or am i wrong on this? > > You are wrong to waste your time on this. People who will believe (and circulate) crap like the stuff on that website are not going to be convinced by any actual scientific, cited info you provide to them. These types generally have an emotional reason for wanting to believe such conspiracy theories, and mere evidence isn’t going to change their mind. > > They probably won’t have their kids vaccinated, which will increase the odds that the kids will die from such a disease, thus ending that family line, and reducing the amount of stupidity genes in the human race. Tough on your friend, or his kids, but good for the human race in general. Another part of the problem isn’t just that vaccine preventable illnesses kill. Vaccine preventable illnesses also cause all kinds of other problems including brain damage. For all the anti-vax nuts insist that unvaccinated children are healthier the very opposite is true. Unvaccinated children are far more likely to get sick from vaccine preventable illnesses and even more likely to develop lifelong consequences from such illnesses than the vaccinated. For example even if a vaccinated child gets chicken pox his case of chicken pox will be milder than if he were unvaccinated. > [@](#): > > [Chickenpox (Varicella) | Nemours KidsHealth](http://kidshealth.org/parent/infections/skin/chicken_pox.html#) > > The vaccine is about 70% to 85% effective at preventing mild infection, and more than 95% effective in preventing moderate to severe forms of the infection. Therefore, although some kids who are immunized still will get chickenpox, the symptoms are usually much milder than those of kids who haven’t had the vaccine and become infected. Vaccines don’t just help prevent illness. They also help prevent disability as well. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vacciantion-nutjobs/550526/34 "2010-08-20T16:46:51Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > The risks of non-vaccination far outweigh the consequences of vaccine preventable diseases. I’m thinking you’ll want to rewrite this – the risks of non-vaccination **ARE** the consequences of vaccine preventable diseases. Perhaps you meant to say the the consequences of vaccine-preventable diseases far outweigh the risks of vaccination. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vacciantion-nutjobs/550526/35 "2010-08-20T16:57:15Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > > [@LavenderBlue](#): > > > > All that does up the possibility that your baby or child will be at risk from rotten diseases like whooping cough and measles. > > Yep…say hello to an outbreak of whooping cough: > > > [@](#): > > > > Monday, August 16th 2010 > > > > It’s back with a deadly vengeance. > > > > Whooping cough – which doctors believed vaccines had eradicated – has already killed seven babies in California, and more than 2,700 cases have been reported there this year alone, according to NPR. > > > > The epidemic on the West Coast has medical experts questioning why some parents opt not to vaccinate their children. In three California schools, 80 percent of the parents signed a “personal belief exemption” that kept their kids from receiving the vaccine, according to the California Department of Public Health. > > > > Read more: [http://www.nydailynews.com/lifestyle/health/2010/08/16/2010-08-16\_its\_back\_whooping\_cough\_outbreaks\_cause\_vaccination\_flap.html#ixzz0x9zEZtGt](http://www.nydailynews.com/lifestyle/health/2010/08/16/2010-08-16_its_back_whooping_cough_outbreaks_cause_vaccination_flap.html#ixzz0x9zEZtGt) Question: aren’t children required to be immunized before being admitted to public schools anymore? I suppose the law varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, but I would imagine that the general public health should supersede parents’ right to be stupid. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vacciantion-nutjobs/550526/36 "2010-08-20T17:01:02Z")
[Apparently](http://www2.sduhsd.net/tp/immunization.html)not in California (not sure about other states): > [@](#): > > The law allows (a) parents/guardians to choose exemptions from immunization requirements based on their personal beliefs, and (b) physicians of children to elect medical exemptions. The law does not allow parents/guardians to elect an exemption simply because of inconvenience (a record is lost or incomplete and it is too much trouble to go to a physician or clinic to correct the problem.) See the back of the blue California School Immunization Record (PM 286) for instructions and the affidavit to be signed by parents/guardians electing the personal beliefs exemption. For children with medical exemptions, the physician’s written statement should be stapled to the CSIR. Schools should maintain an up-to-date list of pupils with exemptions, so they can be excluded quickly if an outbreak occurs. No comment on the wisdom (or lack there of) to this exemption…it IS California, after all… -XT ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vacciantion-nutjobs/550526/37 "2010-08-20T17:05:24Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > Question: aren’t children required to be immunized before being admitted to public schools anymore? I suppose the law varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, but I would imagine that the general public health should supersede parents’ right to be stupid. Yes. It is possible to apply for an exemption on religious or philosophical grounds. Or because they read some goddam horseshit from the anti-vax nutwads. > [@LavenderBlue](#): > > Another part of the problem isn’t just that vaccine preventable illnesses kill. Vaccine preventable illnesses also cause all kinds of other problems including brain damage. Quite true. Regards, Shodan Who Has Hearing Loss in One Ear from Measles Because He was Born Too Early to Get the Vaccine ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vacciantion-nutjobs/550526/38 "2010-08-20T17:26:04Z")
> [@Gary\_T](#): > > > [@LavenderBlue](#): > > > > The risks of non-vaccination far outweigh the consequences of vaccine preventable diseases. > > I’m thinking you’ll want to rewrite this – the risks of non-vaccination **ARE** the consequences of vaccine preventable diseases. Perhaps you meant to say the the consequences of vaccine-preventable diseases far outweigh the risks of vaccination. That’s a reasonable point. The problem is that the anti-vaxxers are right in a small sense. Any unvaccinated individual may not catch a specific disease. For example you’re unlikely to get diphtheria if you refuse the DTaP vaccine because it is extremely rare here. The problem is that when _everyone_ starts not vaccinating then the disease come back all over the place and you get problems. So the anti-vax loons are essentially a group of free riders asking the rest of us to take minor risks on their behalf while they suffer no immediate consequences. On some level I think that’s utterly immoral. > [@DCnDC](#): > > > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > > > Yep…say hello to an outbreak of whooping cough: > > Question: aren’t children required to be immunized before being admitted to public schools anymore? I suppose the law varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, but I would imagine that the general public health should supersede parents’ right to be stupid. Alas no. You can get vaccine for many non-medical reasons in most states including simply stating that vaccination is against your religious beliefs. As **Whack a Mole** points out the consequences of this policy suck: > [@](#): > > [http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/12/opinion/12thu4.html](http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/12/opinion/12thu4.html) > > Sadly, states that readily grant exemptions or allow personal belief exemptions have about 50 percent higher rates of whooping cough, or pertussis, compared with stricter states, after adjusting for demographics. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vacciantion-nutjobs/550526/39 "2010-08-20T17:35:25Z")
I meant you can get vaccine EXEMPTIONS for many non-medical reasons in my previous post. Sorry. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vacciantion-nutjobs/550526/40 "2010-08-20T21:49:05Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#): > > A voluntarily unvaccinated 7 year old boy spread measles in San Diego. He infected 11 children, including three babies under a year of age. 70 children were quarantined for 21 days “because their parents either declined measles vaccination or they were too young to be vaccinated.” > > A total of 839 people were exposed. Seems like a lawsuit against the parents of that 7-year-old boy would be in order, by any of the others who were infected. A few hefty legal judgments against these anti-vax nutjobs might make some difference. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vacciantion-nutjobs/550526.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vacciantion-nutjobs/550526.md?page=3)