# Anti-vaxxers are ignorant scumbags that kill children **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 1, 2016, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626 "2016-09-01T01:59:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/261 "2018-10-25T08:23:39Z")
> [@zweisamkeit](#): > > I did it for the herd. 😃 As a member of the herd who can’t get flu shots, I thank you for doing so. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/262 "2018-10-25T16:42:33Z")
I got part 2 of Shingrix yesterday at CVS. Been sore and achy from neck to toes ever since, barely slept, moaning and groaning. But I tell myself: “It’s better than shingles! SOOOO much better.” It is. Because this will pass, whereas shingles can cause post-herpetic pain that goes on for months or years. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/263 "2018-10-29T18:05:52Z")
Anyone know Rockland County, New York–part of the New York City Metropolitan Area? > [@](#): > > The county has the largest Jewish population per capita of any U.S. county, with 31.4%, or 90,000 residents, being Jewish. Rockland also ranks 9th on the list of highest-income counties by median household income in the United States with $75,306 according to the 2000 census. > **[Rockland County, New York](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockland_County,_New_York)** > > Rockland County is the second-southernmost county on the west side of the Hudson River in the U.S. state of New York, after Richmond County. It is part of the New York metropolitan area. As of the 2020 U.S. census, the county's population is 338,329, making it the state's third-most densely populated county outside New York City after Nassau and neighboring Westchester Counties. The county seat and largest hamlet is New City. Rockland County is accessible via the New York State Thruway, whi Roc... Not exactly poverty stricken. Well: > [@](#): > > Health officials in Rockland County say the number of people infected with measles has more than doubled in the last few days. There are now 33 confirmed cases and doctors say they’re monitoring five other patients who may also have the virus. There were 15 confirmed cases in Rockland County as of last Tuesday, indicating the disease is spreading. > > The initial outbreak was centered in Hasidic communities, including one in New Square, N.Y. Banners and fliers throughout the community are urging people to receive the vaccination… > > Investigators believe travelers brought the disease from Ukraine, where there’s currently a massive outbreak. From there, they brought it to Israel and eventually New York. > **[Officials: Number Of Measles Cases Doubles In Just Days, 33 And Climbing](https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/officials-number-of-measles-cases-doubles-in-just-days-33-and-climbing/)** > > There are now 33 confirmed cases and doctors say they're monitoring five other patients who may also have the virus. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/264 "2018-10-29T19:42:30Z")
The [_Forward_](https://forward.com/news/national/396728/ultra-orthodox-anti-vaxxers-push-yeshivas-to-admit-unvaccinated-students/) was reporting on similar issues last spring: > [@](#): > > Anti-vaccine sentiment has a relatively robust history in some Orthodox corners. In 2013, the worst measles outbreak in the United States in 17 years was determined to have spread through a few ultra-Orthodox families. Every one of the 58 people diagnosed with measles during the outbreak was a member of Brooklyn’s ultra-Orthodox Jewish community. > > Some ultra-Orthodox believe that there is a connection between vaccines and autism, despite the fact that the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention say there is none. […] > > While the vast majority of the ultra-Orthodox world accepts the importance of vaccines, “anti-vaxxers” have always managed to find backing from some rabbinic authority features. In 2014, Rabbi Shmuel Kamenetsky, a major Orthodox rabbi who lives in Philadelphia, called vaccines a “hoax.” > > It’s just big business,” Kamenetzky told the Baltimore Jewish Times. Kamenetsky also suggested that if the diseases that vaccines prevented were a problem, kids would already be sick because school janitors “are mostly Mexican and are unvaccinated.” […] > > Ironically, ultra-Orthodox Jews may be more vulnerable to infectious diseases than other communities are. A study published in 2012 in the New England Journal of Medicine found that Orthodox Jews made up 97% of victims of mumps outbreaks in New York City and a few surrounding counties in 2009–2010. Nearly three-fourths of the teenage victims were men. > > The researchers concluded that yeshivas were the main site of infection for the teenage boys, and pointed to the characteristic chevrutah, or “friendship,” learning style enshrined in yeshivas of all Jewish denominations. In chevrutah learning, two students sit across from each other, poring over books, loudly dissecting and arguing over the text. Over the course of a day-long session, which can last up to 15 hours, students may change partners multiple times. Researchers also noted that when a mumps outbreak occurred in Jerusalem in 2009, yeshiva boys were disproportionately affected. ---
**Author:** ![JB99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/439d5e/32.png) [@JB99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JB99)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/265 "2018-10-29T21:31:06Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > It’s just big business,” Kamenetzky told the Baltimore Jewish Times. Kamenetsky also suggested that if the diseases that vaccines prevented were a problem, kids would already be sick because school janitors “are mostly Mexican and are unvaccinated.” […] The tragic irony of a racist Jew. There are no words. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/266 "2018-10-30T02:33:56Z")
> [@JB99](#): > > The tragic irony of a racist Jew. There are no words. There are words. [From Avenue Q.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RovF1zsDoeM) ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/267 "2018-10-30T02:48:44Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > There are words. Yeah, racism among (white) Jews is not noticeably rarer than among (white) Christians. See also: Yiddish racial slurs such as _schvartzer_. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/268 "2018-10-30T04:38:11Z")
Wow! My ignorance has been fought. When I was a kid, childhood diseases like measles were commonplace and as far as I can tell, having them was the norm and it’s not having had several of them that was the anomaly. And nobody was paying much attention to them. I had assumed it was still the case. But from what I read about these outbreaks, it seems that catching measles is now considered unusual and a significant health concern. I had no idea. And looking up, I see that those vaccines were introduced in 1971, when I was 6. And that the massive number of cases went down almost immediately to almost none. Which makes me thing that about 8 years ago, I caught one of these childhood disease. In my mind it was unusual for an adult, but I didn’t have the slightest clue that such an infection had in fact become a rarity in the general population, children included. Well…I was just functioning with assumptions that had been outdated for 45+ years… ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/269 "2018-10-30T04:58:23Z")
> [@JB99](#): > > The tragic irony of a racist Jew. There are no words. Even worse, he’s wrong. Mexico [blows the US away](https://theweek.com/articles/537527/no-illegal-immigrants-probably-arent-responsible-measles-outbreak) in measles vaccination rates. If anything, we’re the dirty, disease ridden filth giving immigrants diseases. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/270 "2018-10-30T05:07:06Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > When I was a kid, childhood diseases like measles were commonplace and as far as I can tell, having them was the norm and it’s not having had several of them that was the anomaly. Same here. But just because the incidence of serious complications from measles, say, was quite low didn’t mean it didn’t [cause a lot of needless suffering and danger](https://www.cdc.gov/measles/about/history.html): > [@](#): > > In the decade before 1963 when a vaccine became available, nearly all children got measles by the time they were 15 years of age. It is estimated 3 to 4 million people in the United States were infected each year. Also each year, among reported cases, an estimated 400 to 500 people died, 48,000 were hospitalized, and 1,000 suffered encephalitis (swelling of the brain) from measles. So pre-vaccine, you had about a one-in-ten-thousand chance of dying from measles and a one-in-a-hundred chance of being hospitalized from it. Rare enough to be accepted as a comparatively minor risk, but common enough to do a lot of damage in the aggregate. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/271 "2018-10-30T08:06:22Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > There is an antivax flying monkey named Cia Parker who is well known for descending on comments sections of vaccine-related articles, books and so on. Yesterday she posted this gem on Skeptical Raptor: > > > [@](#): > > > > Originally Posted by **Cia Parker** > > My uncle fell asleep in the sun and woke up with schizophrenia. Heat pulls stored vaccine mercury from the bones and looses it to cause symptoms. > > That one’s hard to top. KooKooKaaKaa for sure but you have to give her credit for using the verb “looses” correctly. Also for not using it to spell “loses”. ETA: Looks like I fell for zombie trickery. I responded to something from a few years ago. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/272 "2018-10-30T13:08:01Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Darn straight we are. _Penn & Teller’s Bullshit_, Season 8, Episode 10, is a great explanation of why we are so lucky. > > Have I mentioned before that I have exactly zero, maybe even less, respect for anti-vaxers? If you want to get an idea for the episode, here is a [short clip of the intro](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWCsEWo0Gks) that is commonly spread online. It very viscerally drives the point home. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2018, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/273 "2018-11-19T15:22:15Z")
> [@](#): > > A chickenpox outbreak at a private school now ranks as the state’s largest since a vaccine for the virus became available more than 20 years ago, health officials say. > > As of Friday, 36 students at Asheville Waldorf School had contracted the varicella virus, known to most as chickenpox. **The school has one of the highest vaccination religious exemption rates in North Carolina.** > **[A leader in vaccine exemption, Asheville Waldorf has NC's worst chickenpox...](https://www.citizen-times.com/story/news/local/2018/11/16/asheville-waldorf-chickenpox-outbreak-ncs-largest-decades/2024694002/)** > > As of Friday, 36 students at Asheville Waldorf School had contracted chickenpox. The school has one of the highest vaccination exemption rates in NC. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2018, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/274 "2018-11-19T17:07:58Z")
Low vaccine uptake is [a problem affecting many Waldorf schools](https://vaxopedia.org/2016/10/13/waldorf-schools-and-vaccines/). \*"Waldorf schools have their foundations in anthroposophy, which the Association of Waldorf Schools of North America defines as “the belief that humanity has the wisdom to transform itself and the world, through one’s own spiritual development.”…many of the kids that go to the 250 Waldorf schools in North America are not vaccinated, including schools with some of the highest vaccine exemption rates in the country, including: ``` Waldorf School of Mendocino County (California) – 79.1% vaccine exemption rate Tuscon Waldorf Schools (Arizona) – 69.6% vaccine exemption rate Waldorf School of San Diego (California) – 63.6% vaccine exemption rate Orchard Valley Waldorf School (Vermont) – 59.4% MMR vaccine exemption rate Whidbey Island Waldorf School (Washington) – 54.9% vaccine exemption rate Austin Waldorf School (Texas) – 48% vaccine exemption rate ``` That shouldn’t be a surprise, as anthroposophical medicine “attempts to mix the theories and practices of real medicine with quack cures, physical and artistic therapies and biographical counseling” and “their anti-vaccination stance derives from a dangerous and ignorant belief in diseases being something you must go through to strengthen the soul in its present incarnation.”"\* From the OP’s link: \*"In the 1980s, Sullivan was working as a nurse in Johns Hopkins oncology unit when she witnessed chickenpox claim the life of an elementary school-age girl. The girl, whom Sullivan didn’t name, had just finished a leukemia treatment and returned to her home when she came in contact with somebody who had chickenpox. “Because her immune system was brand spanking new, the disease spread to her internal organs, and she did not survive,” Suillivan said. “That was a wake up call to me that this is not a benign childhood illness.”… “It’s not just about you,” Sullivan said. “It’s about the people you interact with: Pregnant women, people with AIDS, people finishing chemo. They’re a part of our community, too, and we have to do what we can to protect everybody.”"\* Uh-oh. If there’s anything antivaxers hate, it’s the suggestion that having one’s kids properly vaccinated is a civic duty (there’s even an antivax film sneeringly titled “The Greater Good”). ---
**Author:** ![G0sp3l](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c68b51/32.png) [@G0sp3l](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G0sp3l)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2018, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/275 "2018-11-19T18:45:34Z")
The fascinating thing is the anti-vaxxers will simply ignore the evidence as usual, and double down on their “belief.” The more they see innocents suffering the harder they hang on to this nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2018, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/276 "2018-11-19T20:47:38Z")
In my neighborhood, there’s an anarchist bookstore that hosts a needle exchange for opioid addicts. I love the idea, but have some serious problems with the implementation. For one thing, they have no medical professionals on staff, nor (AFAICT) do any of the members have any plan to obtain medical skills. For another, they don’t allow the users a space to use, because they don’t want that kind of trouble in their shop; instead, users get needles and go to the nearest unsupervised location, which during many hours is the school playground nearby. For another thing, they dishonestly represent the danger presented by used discarded needles, belittling and dismissing the concerns of parents who are worried about their kid finding and being stuck by a needle on that playground. For another thing, they refuse to organize a needle clean-up program, although they magnanimously offer to tell others how they can conduct one. A lot of local folks have complained about the program, and it’s on the verge of being shut down. How is this relevant? Because that anarchist bookstore is less than 500 feet away from the goddamned Waldorf school in that article above. And the danger from the needles from the exchange program is eclipsed–ECLIPSED–by the danger from the needles that are NOT injecting vaccines into those same kids. Parents up in arms about the needle exchange ought to be waving torches and pitchforks at the Waldorf School, whose parents are using their children to breed contagious diseases. I love a lot about this town, but goddamn. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2018, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/277 "2018-11-19T20:58:23Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > As a member of the herd who can’t get flu shots, I thank you for doing so. Got mine last Thursday. It was free and I got to get it during work hours. This is the first time that they asked everyone to sit on a chair for ten minutes afterwards ‘in case of dizziness’. They were also suggesting getting in on your dominant side, because the extra movement was supposed to ease the soreness faster. No idea whether that is true or not. There was no soreness, not even any sting when the liquid went in. > [@PastTense](#): > > Anyone know Rockland County, New York–part of the New York City Metropolitan Area? > > [Rockland County, New York - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockland_County,_New_York) > > Not exactly poverty stricken. > > Well: > > [Officials: Number Of Measles Cases Doubles In Just Days, 33 And Climbing - CBS New York](https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2018/10/28/officials-number-of-measles-cases-doubles-in-just-days-33-and-climbing/) New York! Thank you. I’ve seen a couple of news updates on my phone that only say Rockland County, with no clue which state. One update said that County Health was recommending that schools require unvaccinated students stay home until 21 days after the last new case is discovered. Have not heard how that went over. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2018, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/278 "2018-11-20T13:39:01Z")
More on the wonderful wacky world of Waldorf schools, and the philosophy that disease is good for you (spiritually, anyway): > **[Another Waldorf School, another outbreak. Quelle surprise!](https://www.respectfulinsolence.com/2018/11/20/another-waldorf-school-another-outbreak-quelle-surprise/)** > > There's been an outbreak of chickenpox in North Carolina. Guess where it happened? Yes, at a Waldorf school. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/279 "2018-11-21T22:47:07Z")
Updating my post of three weeks ago with 33 cases in Rockland County, New York: > [@](#): > > There are now 113 confirmed cases of measles in ultra-Orthodox (or Haredi) communities around New York City and Lakewood, New Jersey, with another 16 suspected and under investigation by public health authorities. Two measles-infected babies have been hospitalized in intensive care units. And while it is mostly infants who have been infected, some teenagers and a handful of adults have also fallen ill. > **[War breaks out in New York’s ultra-Orthodox community over measles outbreak](https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/2018-11-21/ty-article/.premium/war-breaks-out-in-new-yorks-ultra-orthodox-community-over-measles-outbreak/0000017f-dc43-df9c-a17f-fe5bd8650000)** > > \*\*\* ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2018, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/280 "2018-11-25T01:14:53Z")
I’ll just put [this](https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/terry-rossio-n-word-tweet-anti-vaxx_us_5bf92a12e4b0771fb6b8f394) here. > [@](#): > > Anti-Vax is equivalent to calling someone a nigger and makes as little sense. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626.md?page=15)