# Anti-vaxxers are ignorant scumbags that kill children **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 1, 2016, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626 "2016-09-01T01:59:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/381 "2018-12-06T02:51:23Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > I was taught that cowpox was used as a vaccine after they realized that milkmaids (who worked around cows and thus were exposed to cowpox) almost never got smallpox. Was variolation something that was done previous to that? Never mind. I did some googling after posting this and I understand the history now. Variolation was indeed practiced widely before Jenner began using cowpox. ---
**Author:** ![Batano](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b487fb/32.png) [@Batano](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batano)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/382 "2018-12-06T02:55:50Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > No, XT was mentioning Jenner who was responsible for the small pocks vaccine, it was Salk who did the massive[polio vaccine trial](https://consumer.healthday.com/kids-health-information-23/kids-ailments-health-news-434/the-salk-polio-vaccine-greatest-public-health-experiment-in-history-691915.html). :smack: > > In order to help your understanding of the value of vaccines, I strongly recommend you talk to someone who was around 70 years old. They have a much different opinion on the value of vaccines, having seen first hand what it means not to have them. And if you are not sure who to talk to, look for someone with a metal brace on their leg. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/383 "2018-12-06T02:56:02Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > I was taught that cowpox was used as a vaccine after they realized that milkmaids (who worked around cows and thus were exposed to cowpox) almost never got smallpox. Was variolation something that was done previous to that? Yes, variolation (a.k.a. inoculation) was performed for a long time before the discovery that cowpox (vaccinia) induced a protective immune reaction against smallpox. With inoculation, material/pus from smallpox lesions was introduced into the skin (i.e. via a needle puncture) or inhaled, generally producing a milder case of smallpox than if you got it naturally. Unfortunately, sometimes the disease caused by inoculation was severe enough to kill the patient, which explains why vaccination caught on fast. By the way, those antivaxers who whine about why there isn’t a “vaccinated vs. unvaccinated” study, besides ignoring ethical and study design\* problems, overlook the fact that there’ve been multiple such studies, with results showing that the two groups had similar health outcomes, except that the vaccinated group had a much lower incidence of vaccine-preventable diseases. > **[Myth: No Studies Compare the Health of Unvaccinated and Vaccinated People](https://thoughtscapism.com/2015/04/10/myth-no-studies-compare-the-health-of-unvaccinated-and-vaccinated-people/)** > > Vaccinated people are as healthy or healthier in all aspects compared to the unvaccinated. The vaccinated populations studied have less asthma, less heart attacks, better birth outcomes, and higher… \*since there are far fewer unvaccinated than vaccinated kids, retrospective studies have to deal with unequally sized study groups plus difficulty with confounding variables, in order to come up with meaningful comparisons. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/384 "2018-12-06T03:04:05Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Yes, variolation (a.k.a. inoculation) was performed for a long time before the discovery that cowpox (vaccinia) induced a protective immune reaction against smallpox. > … Yes, and I already answered my own question in post #381. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/385 "2018-12-06T04:39:19Z")
I’m glad everyone is now educated in the differences between vaccination and variolation. But the interesting part of this story was that even when variolation had real serious side effects (like the 1% death rate mentioned) it was still a better choice than leaving the soldiers to get smallpox and die at a very high rate. The spread of variolation was helped by these soldiers returning home and testifying to their immunity. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/386 "2018-12-06T05:22:58Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > …The spread of variolation was helped by these soldiers returning home and testifying to their immunity. You mean, _before_ they developed autism. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/387 "2018-12-06T12:47:17Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Yes, and I already answered my own question in post #381. Amazing how that can happen even as one is preparing and posting a response. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/388 "2018-12-06T15:46:13Z")
And whatever you do, don’t vaccinate your [pets](https://www.ageofautism.com/2018/04/dog-gone-it-vaccines-do-not-cause-autism-.html) ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/389 "2018-12-06T15:55:59Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > And whatever you do, don’t vaccinate your [pets](https://www.ageofautism.com/2018/04/dog-gone-it-vaccines-do-not-cause-autism-.html) Wow. So much willful ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/390 "2018-12-06T16:15:14Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Wow. So much willful ignorance. In the letters column of that article, there is an anti-pet-vax letter from “Healing Touch Vets”. I went to their website and I think I understand why they oppose it-it would interfere with all their other [del]scams[/del]treatments: > [@](#): > > Healing TouchVets is located in Sherman Oaks, California. Healing Touch Vets specializes in holistic veterinary care for your animal companions in order to optimize your animals overall health, longevity, and quality of life. We offer internal medicine, acupuncture, spinal manipulation, herbal medicine, homeopathy, physical rehabilitation therapy,… ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/391 "2018-12-06T18:24:59Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > In the letters column of that article, there is an anti-pet-vax letter from “Healing Touch Vets”. I went to their website and I think I understand why they oppose it-it would interfere with all their other [del]scams[/del]treatments: Yeah, I found that a good portion of the anti-vaxxers on Twitter were herbal medicine sellers or homeopaths. You know, real scientists. :rolleyes: I noted that a homeopath talking about vaccines was like an astrologer giving an opinion on the Big Bang Theory. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2018, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/392 "2018-12-07T03:35:49Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > In the letters column of that article, there is an anti-pet-vax letter from “Healing Touch Vets”. I went to their website and I think I understand why they oppose it-it would interfere with all their other [del]scams[/del]treatments: > > > [@](#): > > > > Healing TouchVets is located in Sherman Oaks, California. Healing Touch Vets specializes in holistic veterinary care for your animal companions in order to optimize your animals overall health, longevity, and quality of life. We offer internal medicine, acupuncture, spinal manipulation, herbal medicine, homeopathy, physical rehabilitation therapy,… I’ve seen that before, the bit about pet acupuncture. I was appalled when I first heard about it and am still shocked that it is not a prohibited, as opposed to not addressed in law, practice. Same goes for that other bullshit humorously masquerading as medical treatment, chiropractic. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2018, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/393 "2018-12-07T13:39:17Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Yeah, I found that a good portion of the anti-vaxxers on Twitter were herbal medicine sellers or homeopaths. You know, real scientists. :rolleyes: And then there’s antivaxer David Stephan, found guilty of neglect in the death of his young son from meningitis (the “natural” remedies didn’t help), who’s been involved in pushing dubious supplements. > **[Quackery and "wellness": The case of David and Collet Stephan and their son...](https://www.respectfulinsolence.com/2018/02/13/quackery-and-wellness-the-case-of-david-and-collet-stephan-and-their-son-ezekiel/)** > > David and Collet Stephan stand convicted of not having provided their son Ezekiel with essential medical care, which led to his death from meningitis. None of this stopped the "wellness" industry from featuring David as a speaker at its expos; that... Now that a second trial in the case is looming, he wants Canadian taxpayers to fork over $4 million for his legal fees. [Couple charged in child's death want millions from Alberta government for their defence | CBC News](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/david-collet-stephan-failing-provide-necessaries-stay-application-million-dollars-1.4935791) ---
**Author:** ![Filbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/filbert/32/3433_2.png) [@Filbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Filbert)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2018, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/394 "2018-12-08T18:15:56Z")
Chickenpox is not routinely vaccinated against in the UK. It’s still common over here, if anyone needs a comparison. I found out my airhead co-worker is antivax today. She was complaining to me, clearly expecting sympathy, about how much trouble she’d had trying to board her dog for an upcoming holiday. ‘I didn’t vaccinate my kids, I’m hardly going to vaccinate the dog!’ I couldn’t say it then, due to the whole ‘being at work’ thing, so I’ll say it here: Rachel, you’re a fuckwit. A life-endangering self righteous moronic dipshit. Grow the fuck up. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2018, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/395 "2018-12-08T18:39:05Z")
A coworker of mine who is leaving for gross incompetence got into how awful the flu shot is yesterday. His ignorance wasn’t even anti-vax talking points, he just literally had no idea what he was talking about, to an embarrassing degree. I’m the new guy, so I was cautious and phrased my response as, “There’s a lot of information on Vaccines, and it’s actually really interesting,” instead of what I wanted to say, which was, “Everything you just said is dangerous misinformation, stop being such a daft cunt.” ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2018, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/396 "2018-12-10T07:20:10Z")
> [@larryh1012](#): > > cite a study, that where one group is vaccinated against whatever e.g., measles, chickenpox, shingles etc, and the control is un-vaccinated. The study should be well designed, where in the control and the test subjects are similar etc, > now… cite the study where the vaccinated group after a period of time…e.g., 1 year 2 years etc, had no occurrences of the disease because of vaccination. but the control group contracted the disease at a normal rate. > IS THERE SUCH A STUDY? Of course there are studies. Drugs, including vaccines, don’t make it to the market without an entire series of studies. These begin with animal studies, and then proceed to human subjects. These studies are ludicrously easy to find, with less than a minute using a search engine. [Study looking at efficacy of Mumps, Measles and Rubella vaccine with children](http://publichealthwell.ie/search-results/vaccines-measles-mumps-and-rubella-children?source=relatedblock&content=resource&member=572160&catalogue=none&collection=none&tokens_complete=true) Here’s another one. [A multi-year study looking at measles vaccine effectiveness.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4675157/) ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2018, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/397 "2018-12-15T23:16:26Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Oh, for fuck’s sake…LARRY! You’re a nutcase. Get help. Sadly, there is no known vaccine, yet, for willful ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2018, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/398 "2018-12-21T23:42:43Z")
> [@](#): > > A growing anti-vaccine movement in Europe, fuelled by social media and anti-establishment populists, is putting lives at risk and may be to blame for measles outbreaks surging to a 20-year high, health experts are warning. > > A fresh Guardian analysis of WHO data shows that measles cases in Europe will top 60,000 this year - more than double that of 2017 and the highest this century. There have been 72 deaths, twice as many as in 2017. > **[Measles cases at highest for 20 years in Europe, as anti-vaccine movement grows](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/21/measles-cases-at-highest-for-20-years-in-europe-as-anti-vaccine-movement-grows)** > > A climate of doubt about vaccine safety is putting lives at risk, experts warn ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2018, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/399 "2018-12-22T00:51:14Z")
> [@vivalostwages](#): > > Sadly, there is no known vaccine, yet, for willful ignorance. Foxglove tea has potential as an herbal remedy, though. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2018, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/400 "2018-12-22T01:49:35Z")
> [@Balance](#): > > Foxglove tea has potential as an herbal remedy, though. Just in case someone reading this isn’t aware of your subtle sense of humor, I feel obligated to state: [DO NOT DO THIS YOU COULD DIE!](https://www.poison.org/articles/2015-mar/foxglove) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626.md?page=21)