# Anti-vaxxers are ignorant scumbags that kill children **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 1, 2016, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626 "2016-09-01T01:59:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2018, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/401 "2018-12-22T02:34:54Z")
> [@Balance](#): > > Foxglove tea has potential as an herbal remedy, though. You can’t have too much foxglove tea. Or is it you shouldn’t have too much foxglove tea? I can never keep herbalists instructions straight, but a liter diluted to 30C should be perfectly safe. > **[Homeopathic dilutions](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathic_dilutions)** > > In homeopathy, homeopathic dilution (known by practitioners as "dynamisation" or "potentisation") is a process in which a substance is diluted with alcohol or distilled water and then vigorously shaken in a process called "succussion". Insoluble solids, such as quartz and oyster shell, are diluted by grinding them with lactose (trituration). The founder of homeopathy, Samuel Hahnemann (1755–1843), asserted that the process of succussion activated the "vital energy" of the diluted substance, an Th... ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2018, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/402 "2018-12-22T05:11:45Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Just in case someone reading this isn’t aware of your subtle sense of humor, I feel obligated to state: > > [DO NOT DO THIS YOU COULD DIE!](https://www.poison.org/articles/2015-mar/foxglove) You never let me have any fun. :mad: 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2018, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/403 "2018-12-22T08:43:08Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Just in case someone reading this isn’t aware of your subtle sense of humor, I feel obligated to state: > > [DO NOT DO THIS YOU COULD DIE!](https://www.poison.org/articles/2015-mar/foxglove) Please note that if you are an antivaxxer, you really should do it anyways. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2018, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/404 "2018-12-23T10:45:17Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Please note that if you are an antivaxxer, you really should do it anyways. While I understand the sentiment, this thread is about pitting people who are killing kids with bad advice. On what side do you want to be?😉 ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2018, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/405 "2018-12-23T11:15:24Z")
> [@The\_Librarian](#): > > While I understand the sentiment, this thread is about pitting people who are killing kids with bad advice. On what side do you want to be?😉 If they die they can’t kill kids with bad advice. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2018, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/406 "2018-12-23T14:18:56Z")
Wishing scorn and embarrassment on hard-core antivaxers is one thing; death is beyond bad taste.\* \*death threats against pro-immunization advocates are unfortunately not unknown, as Paul Offit M.D. could tell you. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2018, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/407 "2018-12-23T16:17:44Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > Of course there are studies. Drugs, including vaccines, don’t make it to the market without an entire series of studies. These begin with animal studies, and then proceed to human subjects. > > These studies are ludicrously easy to find, with less than a minute using a search engine. For the anti-vaxxers, evidence doesn’t matter. Studies don’t matter. You can provide 10,000 studies to an anti-vaxxer, and they will _still_ believe vaccines are full of poison, cause autism, etc. They simply wave off all the evidence and claim it’s a conspiracy perpetrated by “Big Pharma” or whatever. They are insane. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2018, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/408 "2018-12-24T02:16:26Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > For the anti-vaxxers, evidence doesn’t matter. Studies don’t matter. You can provide 10,000 studies to an anti-vaxxer, and they will _still_ believe vaccines are full of poison, cause autism, etc. I recently responded in another forum to an antivaxer who claimed there was only _ **one** _ study showing that vaccines didn’t cause autism, and argued that provaxers just recycle the same one in different forms. I responded by linking to studies by multiple different authors/research teams, including a meta-analysis of ten research publications concluding that there was no vaccine-autism link. The original poster never responded, but a second antivaxer jumped in to change the subject. Some of these folk are delusional; others have perfected the art of na-na-na-I-can’t-hear-you. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2018, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/409 "2018-12-24T15:27:19Z")
That mental attitude has become a meme: My mind is made up. Don’t confuse me with facts. Seeing as the whole “vaccines caused autism” scam was created by Andrew Wakefield to sell his “safer” vaccines, and who was discredited for it, that should have settled the debate. ---
**Author:** ![larryh1012](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f08c70/32.png) [@larryh1012](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/larryh1012)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2018, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/410 "2018-12-24T15:47:27Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > For the anti-vaxxers, evidence doesn’t matter. Studies don’t matter. You can provide 10,000 studies to an anti-vaxxer, and they will _still_ believe vaccines are full of poison, cause autism, etc. They simply wave off all the evidence and claim it’s a conspiracy perpetrated by “Big Pharma” or whatever. They are insane. But there are no studies!!!it is unethical to do studies in vivo with vaccines… it was iterated on this forum to that effect. NO STUDIES. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2018, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/411 "2018-12-24T15:50:09Z")
> [@larryh1012](#): > > But there are no studies!!!it is unethical to do studies in vivo with vaccines… it was iterated on this forum to that effect. NO STUDIES. What the fuck are you doing here? Don’t you have some fucking childen to bury, you fucking scumbag? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2018, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/412 "2018-12-24T16:20:01Z")
> [@larryh1012](#): > > But there are no studies!!!it is unethical to do studies in vivo with vaccines… it was iterated on this forum to that effect. NO STUDIES. You can look at populations before vaccinations and after. Example: polio, smallpox, etc. That is ethical. What is not ethical is to take part of a _current_ population and _withhold_ vaccinations. Which is what you want for no reason other than your own abysmal ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2018, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/413 "2018-12-24T16:40:16Z")
> [@larryh1012](#): > > But there are no studies!!!it is unethical to do studies in vivo with vaccines… it was iterated on this forum to that effect. NO STUDIES. It is unethical to design a study to withhold vaccines from people. It is not unethical to compare vaccinated with unvaccinated populations. Got it? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2018, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/414 "2018-12-24T17:12:57Z")
> [@larryh1012](#): > > But there are no studies!!! Putting on multiple exclamation points doesn’t make your statement any less of a lie, or you any less of a liar. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2018, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/415 "2018-12-24T22:03:36Z")
Larry had himself a nice fringe reset while he was out. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2018, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/416 "2018-12-25T16:46:53Z")
> [@larryh1012](#): > > But there are no studies!!!it is unethical to do studies in vivo with vaccines… it was iterated on this forum to that effect. NO STUDIES. Already answered earlier in this thread. [Yes, there are such studies.](https://thoughtscapism.com/2015/04/10/myth-no-studies-compare-the-health-of-unvaccinated-and-vaccinated-people/) As suggested to you by others, large-scale prospective studies leaving one group unvaccinated and the other vaccinated are not ethical. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2018, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/417 "2018-12-25T20:32:04Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > Larry had himself a nice fringe reset while he was out. Is the new fringe gold? Cuz that would make it an Admiralty conspiracy theory ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2018, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/418 "2018-12-25T21:44:45Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > It is unethical to design a study to withhold vaccines from people. It is not unethical to compare vaccinated with unvaccinated populations. > > Got it? Although when testing a new vaccine it is ethical to withhold it from a part of the study population, provided: 1. The group not given the new vaccine is given the standard of care, including possibly a older version of the vaccine 2. If in the course of the trial it becomes very clear that the new vaccine produces superior results to the current stand of care all patients are moved to the new vaccine. 3. If it is clear that the new vaccine causes harm, the study is halted. And this is what is done with all new vaccines. Every vaccine that has been put on the market has had a trial in which one group got the vaccine and the other group didn’t. But once that vaccine is proven and becomes the standard of care, it is generally unethical to withhold it. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2018, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/419 "2018-12-26T00:39:52Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Although when testing a new vaccine it is ethical to withhold it from a part of the study population, provided: > > 1. The group not given the new vaccine is given the standard of care, including possibly a older version of the vaccine > 2. If in the course of the trial it becomes very clear that the new vaccine produces superior results to the current stand of care all patients are moved to the new vaccine. > 3. If it is clear that the new vaccine causes harm, the study is halted. > > And this is what is done with all new vaccines. Every vaccine that has been put on the market has had a trial in which one group got the vaccine and the other group didn’t. But once that vaccine is proven and becomes the standard of care, it is generally unethical to withhold it. And this should be done for all drug studies. There is a classic study which totally violated these principles–The Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment: > **[Tuskegee Syphilis Study](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_syphilis_experiment)** > > The Tuskegee Study of Untreated Syphilis in the Negro Male (informally referred to as the Tuskegee Experiment or Tuskegee Syphilis Study) was a study conducted between 1932 and 1972 by the United States Public Health Service (PHS) and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) on a group of nearly 400 African American men with syphilis. The purpose of the study was to observe the effects of the disease when untreated, though by the end of the study medical advancements me The Public ... ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2019, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/420 "2019-01-21T20:14:53Z")
And on the other side of the country from New York: > [@](#): > > VANCOUVER, Wash. – Health officials say they have 21 confirmed measles cases in Clark County since the start of the year as an outbreak continues to expand. Clark County Public Health is also investigating four suspected cases of the infection. > > Officials say 18 of those infected were not immunized, while the three others are not verified to have had the vaccine. Sixteen of the cases are for children under 10 years old, four cases are for youth 11 to 18 years old, and one person is between 19 and 29 years old. > **[21 confirmed cases of measles, 4 suspected as Clark County outbreak grows](https://komonews.com/news/local/21-confirmed-cases-of-measles-4-suspected-as-clark-county-outbreak-grows-01-21-2019)** > > VANCOUVER, Wash. – Health officials say they have 21 confirmed measles cases in Clark County since the start of the year as an outbreak continues to expand. Clark County Public Health is also investigating four suspected cases of the infection.... [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626.md?page=22)