# Anti-vaxxers are ignorant scumbags that kill children **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 1, 2016, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626 "2016-09-01T01:59:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 40
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/781 "2019-04-29T14:11:50Z")
Argumentum ad Brady Bunchium has been a thing among antivaxers for quite awhile. Nice that “Marcia” is speaking out against it. For something new in Antivax Loon World (or at least, I had never heard of this line of thinking), try [Wayne McRoy’s new book](https://www.amazon.com/Autism-Epidemic-Transhumanisms-Little-Secret/dp/1094678422/ref=sr_1_fkmrnull_1?keywords=vaccine+transhumanism&qid=1556546888&s=gateway&sr=8-1-fkmrnull), which links immunization to transhumanism, transgenderism, worship of Baphomet and other groovy things.\* \*vaccines are being used to alter our genes to serve the Illuminati. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/782 "2019-05-01T14:55:01Z")
[Here is a great animation](https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=89&v=p0x13N6WYY0) showing a timeline of various diseases with infection rates. For those anti-vaxers that say the reason why some diseases have diminished is improved sanitation and nutrition, this chart illustrates the fallacy of that attitude. In 1963, the measles vaccine was introduced and the measles rate plummeted. Ditto with chicken pox in 1995. At the same time, other diseases that did not have vaccines continued to be a problem. While correlation does not prove causation, it strongly suggests that something is going on here. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2019, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/783 "2019-05-02T16:23:15Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Argumentum ad Brady Bunchium has been a thing among antivaxers for quite awhile. Yup, and it’s stupid, natch. As per the linked article: > [@](#): > > TV producer Del Bigtree, who hosts a YouTube show critical of vaccines, also cites the episode to show that the frenzy about the spike in measles cases is misplaced. > > “We were all giggling and laughing because the whole family in ‘The Brady Bunch’ got the measles,” he said. “Where is the sitcom that joked about dying from AIDS or joked about dying from cancer?” It’s complete rubbish to suggest that just because we as a society joke about some preventable dangers with low but nonzero risks of devastating consequences, therefore we shouldn’t take steps to prevent them. For instance, the novelist [Shirley Jackson’s 1950s humorous autobiographical essays joked about her four-year-old daughter riding unsecured in her car](https://books.google.com/books?id=N9E_IacN850C&pg=PT554): > [@](#): > > Sally habitually rode standing on her head in the back seat […] we found ourselves one day on a back road, turning a corner suddenly into a herd of cows. […] > > I slammed my hand down onto the horn and my foot onto the gas pedal […] we found ourselves in the odd position of chasing a herd of cows swiftly down a country road […] I made a broad screaming turn onto a side road and pulled up […] > > I realized as we came around a corner that there had been a vague sense of activity and noise ahead, but as I slowed down the wild approach of the fire engine sounded behind me and I had no choice but to pull my car quickly over into the ditch as the engine rushed by. So there we sat, Sally and I, in the car […] Could this cavalier approach to child passenger safety have had disastrous consequences? Hell yes, and indeed child passenger fatality rates were much higher in the 1950s than nowadays. Was the average risk in this situation nonetheless low enough to render it an ordinary jokeworthy part of everyday life? Sure. People joke about all sorts of dangers that are real and can occasionally have tragic results. **Does that mean that having child car seats and child passenger restraint laws isn’t a good idea?** Of course not. Just because a situation is comparatively low-risk, even if some aspects of it are funny, doesn’t mean that it’s unnecessary to address that risk. Especially if we can easily and safely reduce it to almost zero, as in the case of childhood disease vaccinations. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2019, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/784 "2019-05-02T20:46:51Z")
[Bwahahaha!](https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/02/health/st-lucia-measles-cruise-ship-quarantine/index.html) > [@](#): > > A quarantined cruise ship reportedly owned by the Church of Scientology has a confirmed case of measles onboard, according to health authorities in St. Lucia. > > :snip: > > After learning earlier through two reputable sources that someone on board might have measles, health officials ordered the ship to stay in port to prevent the spread of the disease. No one on the ship has been allowed to disembark. > > On Thursday, the ship’s doctor requested 100 doses of the measles vaccine, according to a statement from the Department of Health and Wellness, “and this is currently being provided from our supplies, at no cost.” > > Crew members and passengers are being monitored by the ship’s doctor, the statement said. “Continued surveillance is necessary as the incubation period for measles ranges from 10 to 12 days before symptoms in exposed persons occur,” the statement added. > > The ship has approximately 300 crew members and passengers, Fredericks-James said. > > The vessel, named “Freewinds,” is still moored there, St. Lucia Coast Guard Sgt. Victor Theodore told NBC News. How many of those 300 are actually getting vaccinated? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2019, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/785 "2019-05-02T20:50:26Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > [Here is a great animation](https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=89&v=p0x13N6WYY0) showing a timeline of various diseases with infection rates. Cute - but probably too confusing for many people (it took me a couple of seconds to realize why the bars were moving forward and reversing). [Here’s a chart](https://blogs-images.forbes.com/matthewherper/files/2013/03/c6fb5feb7f1ee71b7e725277d30999161.jpg) (published awhile back in _Forbes_) showing how much vaccine-preventable infectious disease incidence has declined since the corresponding vaccines came into use. It has never failed to draw zero reaction from antivaxers, who ignore it and/or change the subject. Antivaxers use graphs too, for purposes of deception. A favorite ploy is to show how death rates from certain diseases had already significantly declined before vaccines. Yes, having antibiotics and ICUs to fight complications meant fewer died, but the diseases were still common, causing widespread misery, hospitalizations, sometimes permanent complications, and yes, deaths. 400-500 deaths a year from measles occurred in the U.S. in the years leading up to measles vaccine introduction, something that wasn’t shown on The Brady Bunch. Education only works with reasonable people capable of changing their minds. It’s useless when dealing with hardcore antivaxers. I still engage them sometimes, to keep the reflexes sharp (and once in a blue moon they come up with a new form of stultifying stupidity, requiring a bit of applied research to refute). ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2019, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/786 "2019-05-02T22:57:47Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > [Bwahahaha!](https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/02/health/st-lucia-measles-cruise-ship-quarantine/index.html)How many of those 300 are actually getting vaccinated? Too many. Suffer, assholes. Though I hope the slaves don’t get the measles, just the Sea force pigs. On my Panama Canal cruise our ship docked next to a Scientology ship in Aruba. Don’t know if was this one. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2019, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/787 "2019-05-06T23:47:47Z")
Time to overthrow the guv’ment! [https://www.patheos.com/blogs/withoutacrystalball/2019/05/anti-vax-facebook-group-threatens-to-overthrow-u-s-government/](https://www.patheos.com/blogs/withoutacrystalball/2019/05/anti-vax-facebook-group-threatens-to-overthrow-u-s-government/) ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2019, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/788 "2019-05-07T01:21:11Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > Time to overthrow the guv’ment! > > [https://www.patheos.com/blogs/withoutacrystalball/2019/05/anti-vax-facebook-group-threatens-to-overthrow-u-s-government/](https://www.patheos.com/blogs/withoutacrystalball/2019/05/anti-vax-facebook-group-threatens-to-overthrow-u-s-government/) “In the past two months, we located at least three posts referencing war against the government” LOL ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2019, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/789 "2019-06-07T03:23:35Z")
This is the year for breaking records–over 1,000 measles cases already this year in the U.S.–largest since 1992! > **[US measles cases surpass 1,000 for 2019 as CDC urges parents to vaccinate...](https://www.cnbc.com/2019/06/05/us-measles-cases-surpass-1000-for-2019.html)** > > The number of measles cases in the U.S. this year has surpassed 1,000, the Secretary of Health and Human Services Alex Azar announced on Wednesday. Here’s a report on an Orthodox Jewish anti-vax rally in New York: > **[Brooklyn, NY - Orthodox Conspiracy Anti Vaccination Rally Led By A Hollywood...](https://vinnews.com/2019/06/05/brooklyn-ny-orthodox-conspiracy-anti-vaccination-rally-led-by-a-hollywood-producer-and-a-rabbi-who-quotes-gospel-of-luke/)** > > Brooklyn, NY – The weirdest part of an Orthodox anti-vaccine conference here was probably when the emcee, a rabbi wearing a black hat and white beard, quoted the Gospel of Luke. “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do!” he cried,... I thought it strange it was led by a Hollywood producer (I would have thought Orthodox Jews would tend to be somewhat anti-Hollywood). ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2019, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/790 "2019-06-07T15:46:04Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > Here’s a report on an Orthodox Jewish anti-vax rally in New York: > [Brooklyn, NY - Orthodox Conspiracy Anti Vaccination Rally Led By A Hollywood Producer, And A Rabbi Who Quotes Gospel Of Luke - VINnews](https://www.vosizneias.com/324592/2019/06/05/brooklyn-ny-orthodox-conspiracy-anti-vaccination-rally-led-by-a-hollywood-producer-and-a-rabbi-who-quotes-gospel-of-luke/) > > I thought it strange it was led by a Hollywood producer (I would have thought Orthodox Jews would tend to be somewhat anti-Hollywood). Del Bigtree is the co-producer of “Vaxxed” (along with Andrew Wakefield), a movie popular with antivaxers - not your typical Hollywood producer. This is not the first time antivaxers have tried to stimulate ethnic resentments and hatred to promote their cause (a central theme of “Vaxxed” is that the CDC supposedly covered up a link between the MMR vaccine and autism in black children, and antivaxers teamed up with the Nation of Islam to exploit this nonexistent link). The producer Del Bigtree told reporters outside the rally that he was affronted that so much fuss was being made over measles, which he called a “trivial” illness. '_“Measles killed 72 children and adults in the European Region in 2018. According to monthly country reports for January to December 2018 (received as of 01 February 2019), 82 596 people in 47 of 53 countries contracted measles. In countries reporting hospitalization data, nearly 2/3 (61%) of measles cases were hospitalized. The total number of people infected with the virus in 2018 was the highest this decade: 3 times the total reported in 2017 and 15 times the record low number of people affected in 2016.”_ [http://www.euro.who.int/en/media-centre/sections/press-releases/2019/measles-in-europe-record-number-of-both-sick-and-immunized](http://www.euro.who.int/en/media-centre/sections/press-releases/2019/measles-in-europe-record-number-of-both-sick-and-immunized) Bigtree’s definition of trivial differs from mine. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2019, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/791 "2019-06-13T18:22:38Z")
Apparently anti-vaxxers have used bogus medical claims t[o get around vaccination requirements](https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/13/entertainment/jessica-biel-vaccines/index.html). The California legislature is considering a bill that would tighten up medical exemptions: > [@](#): > > State health officials estimate that more than 40% of the 11,500 medical exemptions expected to be requested each year would be denied under the bill, according to the Los Angeles Times. Do parents generally have to have a doctor corroborate medical exemptions, or can they merely claim their child has a specific medical condition that makes vaccination contraindicated? And was Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. always a whacko, or is this a fairly development? ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2019, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/792 "2019-06-13T19:17:57Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > And was Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. always a whacko, or is this a fairly development? At least since [2005](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-robert-f-kennedy-jr-distorted-vaccine-science1/). ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2019, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/793 "2019-06-13T19:49:40Z")
**Bastion of Anti-Vaccine Fervor: Progressive Waldorf Schools** > [@](#): > > The mother of an unvaccinated child here in the New York suburbs says eating papaya helps to combat measles. The father of another child who has not been immunized believes that big pharmaceutical companies are paying millions of dollars to doctors, government officials and even judges to bury the truth about vaccine complications. > > Another mother says the souls of her children are on a journey that vaccines would impede. “As a parent, for me, a lot of my job is to just not put extra obstacles in that soul’s way,” she said. > > All three parents represent an anti-vaccine fervor on the left that is increasingly worrying health authorities. They often cluster around progressive private schools that are part of the Waldorf educational movement, and **at the Waldorf school here, 60 percent of the school’s 300 or so students were not vaccinated against measles and other highly contagious diseases as of late last year.** > **[Bastion of Anti-Vaccine Fervor: Progressive Waldorf Schools (Published 2019)](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/13/nyregion/measles-outbreak-new-york.html)** > > Opposition to vaccines on the left is increasingly worrying the authorities. At one progressive school, 60 percent of the 300 students were not vaccinated against measles and other diseases. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2019, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/794 "2019-06-13T19:55:40Z")
> [@74westy](#): > > At least since [2005](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-robert-f-kennedy-jr-distorted-vaccine-science1/). Thanks for the link, which says RFK, Jr.'s vaccine rant started 10 years earlier, so in 1995. I found [a piece](https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/05/08/robert-kennedy-jr-measles-vaccines-226798) written by his relatives last month that slams him for the great harm he’s done. The piece points out JFK, RFK, and Teddy Kennedy all fought to have vaccinations mandated. Way to dishonor your father and uncles, Bobby, Jr. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2019, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/795 "2019-06-13T23:30:50Z")
Some good news in New York: > [@](#): > > Lawmakers in New York, the epicenter of the nation’s measles outbreak, voted on Thursday to end religious exemptions for immunizations, overcoming opposition by vaccine skeptics and others who said the measure infringed on religious and constitutional rights. > > Calling it a public health emergency, Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo immediately signed the bill, adding New York to a small handful of states that do not allow exemptions on religious grounds, including California, Arizona, West Virginia, Mississippi and Maine. > **[Measles Outbreak: N.Y. Eliminates Religious Exemptions for Vaccinations...](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/13/nyregion/measles-vaccinations-new-york.html)** > > New York, where measles has spread in ultra-Orthodox Jewish communities, joins California and a handful of other states in revoking religious exemptions. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2019, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/796 "2019-06-13T23:44:41Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > **Bastion of Anti-Vaccine Fervor: Progressive Waldorf Schools** > > > [@](#): > > > > All three parents represent an anti-vaccine fervor on the left that is increasingly worrying health authorities. They often cluster around progressive private schools that are part of the Waldorf educational movement, and at the Waldorf school here, **60 percent of the school’s 300 or so students were not vaccinated against measles and other highly contagious diseases as of late last year.** > > [https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/13/nyregion/measles-outbreak-new-york.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/13/nyregion/measles-outbreak-new-york.html) I know it is bad of me, but I would love for a few measles active people to visit that school. That’s enough kids that I think that maybe we could get a fatality out of it (that would be the evil part). Maybe some diptheria and pertussis patients also. I remember having the measles (kindergarten, so around 1963 (and pre-vaccine)). I was so sick . . . ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2019, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/797 "2019-06-14T00:34:05Z")
[Two jails](https://q13fox.com/2019/06/13/two-separate-jails-have-reported-mumps-outbreaks-requiring-quarantines-this-week/), one in New Jersey and one in Texas, have outbreaks of mumps. Quarantines have been instituted. I remember as a kid hearing adults give joke warnings about how mumps “going down” was a danger if an adult male contracted it. I don’t see any mention of that danger in the jail quarantine articles, or in random articles on mumps in general. Aha! The keyword I needed was orchitis. Turns out it wasn’t an old urban legend. [This article](https://www.medscape.com/answers/966678-76576/what-are-the-signs-and-symptoms-of-orchitis-in-men-with-mumps)says “Approximately one third of post-pubertal male patients develop unilateral orchitis.” [The Mayo Clinic](https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/orchitis/symptoms-causes/syc-20375860) verifies the ratio. Damn. It’s not safe to go to jail these days. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2019, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/798 "2019-06-14T03:03:49Z")
> [@Yllaria](#): > > It’s not safe to go to jail these days. …unless your vaccinations are up to date. ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2019, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/799 "2019-06-14T03:12:16Z")
My parents had a child every two years until Dad got the mumps. After that it was one every three years. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2019, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/800 "2019-06-14T03:57:07Z")
I just learned elsewhere today about RFK Jr.'s anti-vax idiocy, as it happens. What a shame. I had a lot of respect for his environmental activism before, but this pretty much cancels it out. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626.md?page=39) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626.md?page=41)