# Anti-vaxxers are ignorant scumbags that kill children **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 1, 2016, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626 "2016-09-01T01:59:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 43
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/841 "2019-07-09T18:30:16Z")
There are many dozens of doctoral degrees: > **[List of doctoral degrees in the US](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_doctoral_degrees_in_the_US)** > > There are a wide variety of doctoral degrees awarded to students in a number of different categories in the United States. Doctorates are not restricted to being based solely on research or academic coursework. The first research doctorate was the doctor of philosophy, which came to the U.S. from Germany, and is frequently referred to by its initials of Ph.D. As academia evolved in the country a wide variety of other types of doctoral degrees and programs were developed. Some of these included a ... ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/842 "2019-07-09T19:00:08Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > In the US, naturopaths, reflexologists, etc use “Doctor”. The title has been diluted to the point it’s practically meaningless. Which is all sorts of ironic, as the use of the title for physicians in English speaking countries was somewhat controversial and was itself considered a dilution. It’s certainly not the norm to use the same title for a physician and a PhD in many, if not most, non-English speaking nations. If Canada wants to allow it after requiring several additional years of education past college and licensing requirements, I have no fundamental problem with that. That’s basically how medical doctors came to be allowed to use the title in the first place (which is to the chagrin of many lawyers with their Juris Doctor degrees). ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/843 "2019-07-09T19:29:42Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > One “alternative” cancer remedy that’s achieved popularity via online enthusiasts is “oleander soup”, a concoction you can brew up at home, according to [this](https://www.doctorsbeyondmedicine.com/listing/oleander-soup) and other websites. > > The linked article\* notes: “The most common side-effects are loose bowels, slight temperature and perhaps mild nausea, all of which should dissipate quickly as the body becomes acclimated to the extract.” > > Guess what - diarrhea, nausea and fever are not uncommon side effects of _chemotherapy_, a key difference being that chemo has demonstrated effectiveness and oleander soup does not - along with the fact that home oleander brews are bound to contain variable levels of toxic chemicals. Not to worry, though the site has a disclaimer that warns of the risk of serious injury or death if you don’t do it right (grievous outcomes of alt med seem to always come down to the user not doing it right, or poisoning his/her body first with mainstream medical treatments. :dubious: > > \*this website also promotes the use of chlorine dioxide to boost your immune system. Chlorine dioxide is the active ingredient in a form of industrial bleach, despite which it has been enthusiastically touted as a treatment for autism (to remove those nasty “vaccine toxins”, doncha know). Google “bleach enema” if you have a strong stomach. Holy sh\*t! I’m a California native, and one of the things you learn very young is how poisonous oleander is (it’s everywhere in So Cal). One of my elementary school teachers told us a, probably apocryphal, story about a family stopping to eat a meal by the side of the road while on a trip. They roasted hot dogs using oleander twigs. And they all died! In summer, when the oleanders were in full bloom and the scent was strong, I’d hold my breath while walking by. :rolleyes: Oh, and there was some old Vincent Price movie where he killed his wife by placing a potted oleander plant (which was new to Europe) in his sickly wife’s closed up bedroom, and, duh duh DUH, killed her. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/844 "2019-07-09T21:48:57Z")
> [@Morgyn](#): > > She’s not alone in her craziness. There are states out there that have passed laws forcing doctors to read a state-government-written statement that having an abortion increases (or causes) breast cancer. > [@Riemann](#): > > Just to clarify, although of course it’s crazy that doctors should focus on this small element of risk in this context, as an abstracted statement of fact it’s technically true. Full term pregnancy does reduce the risk of breast cancer. It’s well established that abortion does _not_ increase the risk of breast cancer. Further clarification: inhaling as you walk by a stand of oleanders in bloom is not fatal. If it was, most of the lower South would be depopulated. And to my knowledge, most varieties are not fragrant. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2019, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/845 "2019-07-18T18:41:47Z")
Death threats from an antivaxxer against a member of Congress [https://thehill.com/policy/defense/453726-pentagon-contractor-charged-with-threatening-to-kill-rep-frederica-wilson](https://thehill.com/policy/defense/453726-pentagon-contractor-charged-with-threatening-to-kill-rep-frederica-wilson) ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2019, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/846 "2019-07-18T20:31:00Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > Death threats from an antivaxxer against a member of Congress [https://thehill.com/policy/defense/453726-pentagon-contractor-charged-with-threatening-to-kill-rep-frederica-wilson](https://thehill.com/policy/defense/453726-pentagon-contractor-charged-with-threatening-to-kill-rep-frederica-wilson) To be fair, he seems to be a bit unbalanced in general: > [@](#): > > Varnum’s wife told police her husband was having “behavioral issues” in 2015, when he yelled that ISIS fighters were coming to their house to fight him and told police he owned “numerous guns” while appearing to be drunk, the complaint stated. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/847 "2019-07-19T02:16:48Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > To be fair, he seems to be a bit unbalanced in general If you’re a follower of Del Bigtree (co-producer of “Vaxxed”), threatening violence against pro-immunization advocates [may make perfect sense](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaR81c9bscA&t=1m44s). ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/848 "2019-07-19T03:02:24Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > They’re not predominantly right-wing or left-wing. They’re not all uneducated. Is it that they were raised by fearful parents? That they can’t distinguish between actual and real threats? They’re neophobic and rapid changes in technology scares them? Around here, in brownstone Brooklyn, ground zero for affluent liberalism, they’re predominantly liberal, especially on lifestyle issues, perhaps not so much on economic issues, and highly educated. I’d bet that 90% or more of the anti-vax parents around here have college degrees, and close to half of them have graduate degrees. Outside of brownstone Brooklyn (i.e., Park Slope, Brooklyn Heights, and some adjacent neighborhoods), the only other people I know of in NYC who are anti-vax are members of some (not all, and maybe only one) of the Hasidic sects. There’s another bunch of them in Rockland County, north of the city. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2019, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/849 "2019-08-22T23:28:55Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > Around here, in brownstone Brooklyn, ground zero for affluent liberalism, they’re predominantly liberal, especially on lifestyle issues, perhaps not so much on economic issues, and highly educated. I’d bet that 90% or more of the anti-vax parents around here have college degrees, and close to half of them have graduate degrees. > > Outside of brownstone Brooklyn (i.e., Park Slope, Brooklyn Heights, and some adjacent neighborhoods), the only other people I know of in NYC who are anti-vax are members of some (not all, and maybe only one) of the Hasidic sects. There’s another bunch of them in Rockland County, north of the city. It’s pretty well established that anti-vaxxers aren’t predominantly liberal or conservative. There are plenty of conservatives who distrust the federal government–not the President, maybe, but the rest of it. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2019, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/850 "2019-08-23T00:47:24Z")
Two of these geniuses tried to school me recently, saying: “You are aware that people still get those things with vaccinations, right? The live viruses are IN the shots. I had chickenpox, shingles and vaxxed. It happens all the time. The unvacced are literally THE healthiest people out there, you simply cannot spread something you don’t have. The ones spreading it are the ones getting the live virus injected into their bodies, and shedding it to others.” “Do you realize that you got shingles because of the chicken pox vaccine? Kids used to get chicken pox and then have natural lifetime immunity. And as you grew up you were exposed to chicken pox (because all kids get it) over and over which builds your immunity which leads to natural immunity to shingles. Now no natural chicken pox, no natural immunity, no build up of immunity to shingles. But that’s ok because they have a vaccine for shingles now too.” ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2019, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/851 "2019-08-23T00:54:10Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > It’s pretty well established that anti-vaxxers aren’t predominantly liberal or conservative. There are plenty of conservatives who distrust the federal government–not the President, maybe, but the rest of it. [Speaking of Trump and anti-vax](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-wont-give-flu-vaccines-to-migrants-in-border-detention-centers-near-mexico-border/): > [@](#): > > The U.S. government will not give flu vaccines to migrant families being held in detention centers near the U.S.-Mexico border. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) announced the decision Tuesday, weeks before the flu season begins. _More at the link._ One would think the optics of three children in detention dying from the flu would make them think about that. One would then not be one of the Republican, who today, apparently, consider kids dying, so long as they’re the right kids dying, to be a good thing. Oh, and if the administration is so stressed out about not having enough medical personnel to care for the detainees, they can mobilize the military again. I hear the Army has some doctors, nurses, and other medical professionals. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2019, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/852 "2019-08-23T13:59:31Z")
Antivaxers [move a step closer](https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-08-21/richard-pan-confronted-anti-vaccine-activist) to serious violence. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2019, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/853 "2019-08-24T00:12:01Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Antivaxers [move a step closer](https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-08-21/richard-pan-confronted-anti-vaccine-activist) to serious violence. I couldn’t access the link because I’ve already maxed out my free articles for the month. If someone would please give me a synopsis, I’d be grateful. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2019, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/854 "2019-08-24T00:52:15Z")
I spent a few days with some anti-vaxxers who are also alternative medicine devotees–and by “alternative medicine,” I mean stuff like [pendulum dowsing](https://highernutrition.com/use-a-pendulum/) > [@](#): > > A pendulum can act as your personal compass to wellness. Blending the material and spiritual aspects of energy as it moves through the principles of science and art. A technique to search out that which is invisible or unknown. The human form acts as an antenna along with the subconscious mind which responds to the electromagnetic waves emitted from people, places, things and thoughts and [ozone treatments](https://www.forbes.com/sites/brittmariehermes/2016/10/13/naturopathic-medicine-week-endemic-quackery-ozone-therapy/#281590c246a2). They were all up in arms over an email sent out by infamous quack Joe Mercola, whom they view as a guru. The email tells his followers how Google, which is, he claims, in cahoots with “Big Pharma,” is trying to stifle the anti-vaxx message by limiting the times his website appears in the first page of results in a Google search. (He doesn’t mention that it also stifles his $15 million annual income.) Google, as you may know, changed its algorithm under pressure from public health officials, political reps, and almost everyone who’s concerned about the promulgation of anti-vaxx bullshit by assholes like Joe Mercola. I barely suppressed a lusty cheer when I heard them bitching about it, and I hope it hits Mercola and the other health hoaxer millionaires right in their big, fat anti-vaxx wallets. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2019, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/855 "2019-08-24T01:34:06Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > I couldn’t access the link because I’ve already maxed out my free articles for the month. If someone would please give me a synopsis, I’d be grateful. Antivaxxer “was cited on suspicion of assault by the Sacramento Police Department on Wednesday after he livestreamed a physical confrontation with state Sen. Richard Pan, author of legislation to restrict vaccine exemptions.” > [@](#): > > Bennett posted the video with the caption: “yes, I pushed Richard Pan for lying, laughing at us and for treason.” He added in the video that if Pan “Got what he deserved he would be hanged for treason for assaulting children, for misrepresenting the truth.” ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2019, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/856 "2019-08-24T03:43:31Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > I spent a few days with some anti-vaxxers who are also alternative medicine devotees–and by “alternative medicine,” I mean stuff like [pendulum dowsing](https://highernutrition.com/use-a-pendulum/) and [ozone treatments](https://www.forbes.com/sites/brittmariehermes/2016/10/13/naturopathic-medicine-week-endemic-quackery-ozone-therapy/#281590c246a2). I wonder if they can get that ozone therapy in aerosol cans. After all, as the tweet quoted in your link says, "“Injecting ozone seems to me to be an absolutely lethal thing to do.” ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2019, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/857 "2019-08-24T05:33:56Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Antivaxxer “was cited on suspicion of assault by the Sacramento Police Department on Wednesday after he livestreamed a physical confrontation with state Sen. Richard Pan, author of legislation to restrict vaccine exemptions.” Thanks much. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2019, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/858 "2019-08-24T05:46:52Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > I spent a few days with some anti-vaxxers ? Traffic court judge decided to make an example of you or something? I’m presuming you didn’t **voluntarily** choose this ordeal. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2019, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/859 "2019-08-24T05:57:25Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > I wonder if they can get that ozone therapy in aerosol cans. After all, as the tweet quoted in your link says, "“Injecting ozone seems to me to be an absolutely lethal thing to do.” Ha! This woman had the treatment where blood is mixed with ozone and then returned to the body. She’s convinced herself she has an auto-immune disorder and her naturopath told her ozone therapy would help. She got several “treatments” over a few months before admitting it hadn’t done a thing. That’s another thing that amazes me about these people: they spend a FORTUNE on this worthless crap, and the failure of one scam treatment doesn’t dampen their enthusiasm for another. The ozone therapy cost that lady a few hundred bucks per session. The same woman also had sessions in a hyperbaric chamber to the tune of a couple grand. Another woman is about to get treatment “by one of the few experts in the world” in which a small balloon is briefly inflated in a nostril. It’s supposed to relieve headaches. Cost: $400 per session. You could probably do the same thing with the same effect using an 89¢ package of balloons and a shot of vodka, but there’s no cachet in that. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2019, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/860 "2019-08-24T06:40:04Z")
Wait, what? Hyperbaric chamber? I can’t see how that’s beneficial at all, unless you have decompression sickness. Hell, I wouldn’t be surprised at all if somone’s gotten the bends from undergoing that “treatment” thanks to an incompetent\* practitioner. \*I know. I know. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626.md?page=42) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626.md?page=44)