# Anti-vaxxers are ignorant scumbags that kill children **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 1, 2016, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626 "2016-09-01T01:59:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2016, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/81 "2016-09-03T01:22:23Z")
> [@](#): > > Don’t think the human immune system evolved to produce 5 different antibodies in 1 day. > [@RivkahChaya](#): > > I know it’s already been commented upon, but this is a really, really ignorant statement, and anyone who would make it should not be making up vaccine schedules. . . . Well, I think it’s true that the human body never evolved under conditions of having blood-stream injections of concentrated killed virus parts. It’s reasonable to wonder what the effects might be. The question has been answered, by actual studies. It’s been looked into, and tested, and researched. So we’re okay. But the question, on the face of it, is not a bad one. ---
**Author:** ![psychobunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@psychobunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychobunny)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2016, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/82 "2016-09-03T02:59:22Z")
For those who are interested in a fairly comprehensive review of the risks of multiple immunization in children in the US, [this](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK220494/) is a fairly comprehensive review although a few years old. I don’t know of any data since then showing increased risk but this committee specifically looked at the risks of other infections (ie generally weakened immune system) as well as autoimmune diseases and could find no correlation. However, they concluded that letting parents vaccinate on an alternative schedule could be considered since it would overall lead to more vaccination. It’s a dense read but a good one. ---
**Author:** ![Lobot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@Lobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobot)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2016, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/83 "2016-09-03T03:06:06Z")
I had all my shots as a kid, except one: whooping cough–the specialists believed it was risky due to my condition. I also had respiratory problems, and if I caught whooping cough from an unvaccinated child, I probably wasn’t going to be long for this world. So I had to rely on everyone else to be responsible members of the community. This Wakefield bullshit has set things up so that everyone thinks they get to have an opinion. It’s not about individual rights–it’s about the social contract. If you want the goodies that come with being in a society, you have to hold up your end of the bargain. It’s basically on the same level as tax evasion. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2016, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/84 "2016-09-03T04:12:31Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > I wonder what would happen to the anti-vaxxers if Big Pharma came up with a vaccine that prevented autism. 😃 Minds blown. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2016, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/85 "2016-09-03T05:19:12Z")
Ok, sorry this thread has had far too little controversy for a pit thread. So in the attempt to inject (pun intended) some life into it I’ll extend my pitting. I pit whoever it was in the US intelligence world that authorised using a Doctor doing Vaccination rounds to gather info on the people living in Osama Bin Laden’s compound in Abottabad. There has been considerable blow-back with people in the North West Frontier Provinces now refusing vaccinations as they believe (with some justification) that it could be a CIA plot. It’s also lead to at least 63 aid workers being murdered on suspicions of them being spies. > **[National Geographic](https://www.nationalgeographic.com/)** > > Explore National Geographic. A world leader in geography, cartography and exploration. > **[National Geographic](https://www.nationalgeographic.com/)** > > Explore National Geographic. A world leader in geography, cartography and exploration. > **[Four health workers slain in attack on Pakistan vaccination team](https://www.latimes.com/world/afghanistan-pakistan/la-fg-pakistan-polio-workers-killed-20141126-story.html)** > > Gunmen shot and killed four health workers carrying out a polio vaccination drive Wednesday in the capital of Pakistan’s restive Baluchistan province, police officials said. This cowardly bureau chief, or whoever he or she was has probably put back the elimination of Polio from the planet by 20 years. No it was almost certainly not Obama, the article above states it would have been made at a lower level than that. It simply wasn’t worth it, I’d rather have Osama Bin Laden still free than the potential cost of 100’s of thousands of lives from the effect this has had on vaccination campaigns in Pakistan and Afghanistan. I refuse to believe that with the entire resources of the US three letter agencies at their disposal that they couldn’t come up with a better way to identify who was in the compound. Use a drone, light part of the compound on fire and see who comes out, try and get a maid in there who’s working for you, or pay off some Pakistani police to do a doorknock. There simply had to to be a better alternative than using vaccination workers to do your dirty work. Whatever faceless middle managers authorised this, they deserve to be forced to spend the rest of their lives volunteering in hospitals in the NWFP and they still wouldn’t come anywhere near close to atoning for what they’ve done. Unfortunately as far as I can tell having a health worker perform espionage for you doesn’t appear to be a war crime, but it is the lowest of the low, sickening and cowardly. And the US is a lesser nation for the fact that it had to stoop so low to “get Osama”. Oh and the worst part of it? It didn’t even work, they used other intelligence to work out who was in the compound and never managed to obtain any DNA samples. ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2016, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/86 "2016-09-03T05:34:00Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > Oh I see, you’re Fighting the Man. How noble. You exposed your own children to risk of serious disease, you exposed the children who had contact with your children to risk of serious disease, and you achieved nothing of practical value. > > But you sure showed those assholes who recommended to you a good and effective way to protect your family and friends! You made it clear who’s boss! > > What a fuckin’ hero. > [@Steophan](#): > > You’re damn right it’s not good enough. You are risking the lives of your children and anyone they meet, based on your own wilful ignorance. You’ve been shown in this thread the scientific evidence that it’s safer to get them done according to the schedule, so you can’t even claim you haven’t seen it - you are deliberately trying to ignore it. > > If I were king of the universe, people like you would have your children taken from you, and be sterilized for the good of the species. Oh boo-hoo. You got your precious feelings hurt because somebody doesn’t agree that your “perfect” way is the best in all cases. Idiots like you are guilty of letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. You would prefer that people not get vaccinated at all, if they’re not going to follow your ideas. Grow up, you worthless pieces of slime! ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2016, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/87 "2016-09-03T05:54:27Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > Oh boo-hoo. You got your precious feelings hurt because somebody doesn’t agree that your “perfect” way is the best in all cases. > > Grow up, you worthless pieces of slime! Sorry you’re the worthless slimeball. Read the papers linked above, delaying immunisations is more dangerous for your child and other children. The CDC schedule is the consensus of thousands of pediatricians using decades of study. It’s not perfect but it’s a hell of a lot better than any delayed schedule you arbitrarily decide on because of your “feels”. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2016, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/88 "2016-09-03T10:15:22Z")
Yeah, a delayed schedule is a bad thing - but I’m much more concerned about the kids who won’t be vaccinated _at all_ than the ones getting delayed shots. There’s bad and then there’s worse. ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2016, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/89 "2016-09-03T13:47:56Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > I wonder what would happen to the anti-vaxxers if Big Pharma came up with a vaccine that prevented autism. 😃 > > I have a Facebook friend who is in line for a new job, but —horror of horrors—they want her to get a flu shot. She was actually asking for ways she could lie to her potential new employer to avoid it. > > I just hid the post and moved on. Fortunately, she’s one of those people who absolutely loathes children and will not be procreating, so at least her innocent offspring won’t be affected. That’s easy, they’d blame Big PharmaTM of deliberately causing autism in children so that later on they could profit from selling a cure. You, know, just like _they_ created HIV. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2016, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/90 "2016-09-03T14:02:48Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > Oh boo-hoo. You got your precious feelings hurt because somebody doesn’t agree that your “perfect” way is the best in all cases. > > Idiots like you are guilty of letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. You would prefer that people not get vaccinated at all, if they’re not going to follow your ideas. > > Grow up, you worthless pieces of slime! You’re not very good at this, are you? I mean, your invective is fine. It’s just that your comprehension is so low you have no idea what invective to use on what occasion. You just learned off some stuff and chuck it out at random. You’re like a guy who’s learned off the perfect funeral eulogy, but is so tone deaf he delivers it at weddings, birthday parties and Xmas parties. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2016, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/91 "2016-09-03T14:20:57Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > I don’t see how your post contradicts what I said. You asserted that the individual vaccinations became popular only after Wakefield was debunked. I have told you my own recollections that this is not correct, and given a link to an article about someone else’s memories which again demonstrate that you are not correct. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2016, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/92 "2016-09-03T14:26:59Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > Let’s not be facetious, in western developed countries the incidence of deadly diseases is pretty low. I was under the impression that the incidence of vaccine-preventable diseases is so low because kids are getting vaccinated on schedule. 🙂 I am certainly not linking you with antivaxers, but one of their most “eloquent” arguments against getting immunized is that “gee, these diseases are so rare, why do my kids need to get the shots?”. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2016, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/93 "2016-09-03T15:19:16Z")
> [@Vicsage](#): > > Whatever the number of people at risk, its no way near everybody. It is everybody. Every single body. Because no vaccine is 100% effective. So even if my measles vaccination worked perfectly, and I’ve developed the maximum immunity possible, I can still get measles. I probably won’t, but I still can, if exposed to the virus. So your choice is putting the unvaccinated at risk, the delayed vaccinators at risk, the can’t be vaccinated at risk, the failed vaccinated at risk and the fully vaccinated at risk. That’s literally every single person. > [@Broomstick](#): > > Yeah, a delayed schedule is a bad thing - but I’m much more concerned about the kids who won’t be vaccinated _at all_ than the ones getting delayed shots. There’s bad and then there’s worse. This is also true. I’m not going to fight the delayed vaccinators as hard as the antivaxxers. But I do want them to be aware of the increased risks, not just to others, but to themselves, and not just from the vaccine preventable illness, but the risk of seizures that we know is associated with delayed vaccination. If they don’t know that, then it’s one of those decisions that seems fairly reasonable. If they know that and still choose to delay, well, then, we know what kind of people they are. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2016, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/94 "2016-09-03T15:25:21Z")
> [@Ale](#): > > That’s easy, they’d blame Big PharmaTM of deliberately causing autism in children so that later on they could profit from selling a cure. A pharma cure would have generated revenues in the hundred-billions in the last decade; exactly what are they waiting for? (There’s only one effective “cure” for autism - EIBI/EIBT - and it’s nothing Big Pharma can package and sell or profit from in any way.) ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2016, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/95 "2016-09-03T16:01:18Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > A pharma cure would have generated revenues in the hundred-billions in the last decade; exactly what are they waiting for? > > (There’s only one effective “cure” for autism - EIBI/EIBT - and it’s nothing Big Pharma can package and sell or profit from in any way.) The problem is that your argument is logical and reasonable, two things anti-vaxxers have proven to be militantly impervious to. ---
**Author:** ![eclectic\_wench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ac91a4/32.png) [@eclectic\_wench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eclectic_wench)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2016, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/96 "2016-09-03T16:14:54Z")
My mother was born and grew up in a Third World country in the 1940s. She is fanatical about vaccines, because she’s seen what life is like without them. My first kid got her MMR a few weeks after her first birthday (the recommended age here is 12-13 months, she had a fever one week, we couldn’t make the weekly shot slot the next) and my mother could not believe that we hadn’t got her down to the doctor the day she turned one. This is a kid who wasn’t in a creche or playgroup, wasn’t being exposed to a lot of other kids, no measles or mumps around, and yet my mother was made incredibly nervous by the idea of her being vaccinated even a few weeks after the first possible instant. That’s what seeing the diseases in action will do to you. Vaccine delayers don’t bother me anywhere NEAR as much as non-vaxxers. Just mathematically, say the average lifespan is 80: someone unvaccinated spends anywhere up to an extra 79 years and 10 months as a potential illness victim and vector. A kid who gets the shot three months late spends three extra months as a possible victim/vector (and it’s possible that the parents wouldn’t have vaccinated him at all if the delayed schedule wasn’t available). It’s not great, but it’s not at all the same thing, and getting equally infuriated about both is just plain silly. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2016, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/97 "2016-09-03T16:22:37Z")
I don’t understand the value of individual inoculations. Apparently, the point is that kids do not get exposed to foreign bacteria all at once, except they do all the time. People don’t think about just how many they are exposed to when Mommy and Daddy breathe on them, Fido licks them, or–God forbid–they crawl on the floor. A shot of MMR is nothing like a walk in the park, especially if you put the kid down on the ground. Dozens or hundreds of exposures, all at once. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2016, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/98 "2016-09-03T16:40:06Z")
> [@eclectic\_wench](#): > > My mother was born and grew up in a Third World country in the 1940s. She is fanatical about vaccines, because she’s seen what life is like without them. I was born in the US in the 50s, and as far as vaccines were concerned it was still a Third World country. We had shots for tetanus and smallpox and I was just in time for polio, but I got immunized for measles, mumps, rubella, chickenpox, whooping cough, and I think diphtheria the Third World way. And I wasn’t even “sickly,” just a normal kid. As mentioned above, anti-vax sentiment seems to arise in people who have benefited from vaccinations so they never got those diseases. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2016, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/99 "2016-09-03T16:47:41Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > I don’t understand the value of individual inoculations. Apparently, the point is that kids do not get exposed to foreign bacteria all at once, except they do all the time. If there is absolutely anything to any part of vaccination contraindications, it is, or eventually will be found to be in the massive shotgun of vaxes given in combination, especially the first few rounds. Most dog breeders, for example, strongly recommend spacing out puppy vaxes, because they’ve seen pups sicken and die from getting the full slate in one day. Infant immunizations have increased considerably in the last decade or so. Conceding absolutely nothing to the anti-vax morons, I can think of no reason except convenience and cost to the medical profession not to space out infant and toddler vaxes a little bit. It seems very much to be a “can’t hurt, might avoid even rare complications” sort of move. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2016, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/100 "2016-09-03T16:52:59Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > If there is absolutely anything to any part of vaccination contraindications, it is, or eventually will be found to be in the massive shotgun of vaxes given in combination, especially the first few rounds. Most dog breeders, for example, strongly recommend spacing out puppy vaxes, because they’ve seen pups sicken and die from getting the full slate in one day. > > Infant immunizations have increased considerably in the last decade or so. Conceding absolutely nothing to the anti-vax morons, I can think of no reason except convenience and cost to the medical profession not to space out infant and toddler vaxes a little bit. It seems very much to be a “can’t hurt, might avoid even rare complications” sort of move. Yeah, it’ll probably only kill a few kids. Nothing to worry about. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626.md?page=6)