# Anti-vaxxers are ignorant scumbags that kill children **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 1, 2016, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626 "2016-09-01T01:59:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2016, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/101 "2016-09-03T17:07:29Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Yeah, it’ll probably only kill a few kids. Nothing to worry about. So will everything modern medicine does to save millions of them. The arguments against vaccination are nonsense. The arguments against vaccinating a baby with fifteen things in a single day may be extremely weak, but they are IMHO stronger than the arguments that simply serve convenience. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2016, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/102 "2016-09-03T17:11:08Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > If there is absolutely anything to any part of vaccination contraindications, it is, or eventually will be found to be in the massive shotgun of vaxes given in combination, especially the first few rounds. Most dog breeders, for example, strongly recommend spacing out puppy vaxes, because they’ve seen pups sicken and die from getting the full slate in one day. Only that it has not been found among human vaccines that have much more scrutiny than the ones given to dogs, and that antivaxxer point about dogs sounds a lot like a urban rumor. > [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Infant immunizations have increased considerably in the last decade or so. Conceding absolutely nothing to the anti-vax morons, I can think of no reason except convenience and cost to the medical profession not to space out infant and toddler vaxes a little bit. It seems very much to be a “can’t hurt, might avoid even rare complications” sort of move. Oh, I can not think of a reason you missed post #51, There are reasons why even on that point the antivaxxers are morons. And there are other reasons why the antivaxxers do like to push this item; because they have lost the argument in all other related issues, and they do know that many times people forget about getting the shots later or they do not have enough money to pay for the alternate schedules they are advised to follow by the antivaxxers. > **[Delaying Vaccines Not A Good Idea](https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/delaying-vaccines-not-a-good-idea/)** > > Evil Mr. Vaccine and the consequences of vaccination.There's nothing like cold hard data to counteract opinion and propaganda. The anti-vaccine movement hit upon a clever marketing phrase with the > **[Alternative Vaccination Schedules](https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/alternative-vaccination-schedules/)** > > Evidently the 7 billionth human is going to be born on October 31. Happy birthday and welcome to the Earth.  If you were unfortunate enough to be born into a developing country or a affluent Californ ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2016, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/103 "2016-09-03T17:18:42Z")
My current breeder lost pups in litters of recent years from overvaccination; she’s a qualified vet and no longer allows her pups to be mass vaccinated. It’s been no trouble to take my boy to his favorite vet here three times instead of once. I’m willing to sacrifice a tad of convenience for his possible benefit. Not liking an argument because a group of shitheads uses it doesn’t invalidate it. The only - ONLY - reason for mass vaccination is convenience, as defined by insurance companies and HMOs. Maybe there are vanishingly few problems with mass vax; there are fewer with spreading them out over a short time. It doesn’t mean I stand with the flat-earthers or am giving them aid and comfort by saying so. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2016, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/104 "2016-09-03T17:37:13Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > The same turd flavoured cumsack that wrote the 1000 page bullshit tract also believes that we never landed on the moon, that the government is covering up anti-gravity, free energy and contact with extra-terrestrials and a long list of other wacko conspiracies. That seems to be common. Once you believe one wacko conspiracy the rest seem to follow, they all fall in place, and the good knowledge gets crowded out. Earlier this year, our local community hospital – the one that does modern surgeries, has a modern emergency room, and appears to be mainstream science – held a free workshop on Tuesday nights for six weeks in two locations. Was this an opportunity for the public to learn useful anatomy, medicine, biology, chemistry or anthropology? Not in the slightest. It was entitled, “Mind, Body & Spirit, Integrated Medicine Holistic Workshops.” The curriculum was Acupressure, Critical Alignment Yoga Therapy, Aromatherapy, “Eating Live Foods,” Art Therapy, and Integrative Biological Dentistry. That’s the complete list. Not a speck of medicine in there anywhere. Maybe I’m expecting too much from a hospital that is supported by the Catholic Church. Mysticism is in its blood, so to speak. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2016, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/105 "2016-09-03T17:52:22Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > I don’t understand the value of individual inoculations. Apparently, the point is that kids do not get exposed to foreign bacteria all at once, except they do all the time… Mankind is full of irrational fears. I used to be afraid of the scary monster under my bed or that God would punish me for taking an extra candy bar. Most of us grow out of these beliefs. Some people never do. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2016, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/106 "2016-09-03T18:29:15Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Not liking an argument because a group of shitheads uses it doesn’t invalidate it. The only - ONLY - reason for mass vaccination is convenience, as defined by insurance companies and HMOs. Maybe there are vanishingly few problems with mass vax; there are fewer with spreading them out over a short time. It doesn’t mean I stand with the flat-earthers or am giving them aid and comfort by saying so. The death of a few kids because they, or the other kids around them, weren’t vaccinated at the earliest possible opportunity is a problem with spreading out vaccination. And if there’s a medical reason for spreading them out in a few cases, it’s important that those kids are protected by everyone else being vaccinated. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2016, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/107 "2016-09-03T18:32:20Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Yeah, it’ll probably only kill a few kids. Nothing to worry about. Do you understand risk / reward? If the recommended schedule kills 1 in 1 million from rare vaccine side effects thats still much much much better than no vaccines at all. And it’s also better than the 10 in 1 million that might result from a delayed schedule. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2016, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/108 "2016-09-03T18:58:35Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > The only - ONLY - reason for mass vaccination is convenience, as defined by insurance companies and HMOs. M You keep saying that. Why do you keep saying that. Reasons for mass vaccination: 1. Fewer unvaccinated kids diluting the herd immunity 2. Less opportunity for the kid getting vaccinate to get the disease 3. _ **Fewer seizures** _ 4. Increased vaccination rates 5. Convenience 6. Lower cost for the parent, the physician’s office and for insurance 7. Shorter wait times at the pediatrician’s. 8. Fewer trips to the pediatrician’s. You can argue that 1 and 2 don’t increase risk to a statistically significant degree, but seeing as some parents are stretching out the schedule over 6 years (sometimes letting them go completely unvaccinated until right before kindergarten), I would ask for a hell of a lot of data to support that argument. You can say that 5, 6, 7 and 8 aren’t worth risking children’s health for, and I’ll mostly agree, except to point out that every additional trip to the pediatrician’s office comes with a free hour of exposure to every germ being sneezed and coughed into the air of the waiting room and drooled onto the chairs. Disgusting filthy places, waiting rooms. But 3? C’mon, that’s a real thing. A real physical effect that a delayed vaccination schedule can have. Seizures are no damn fun. They’ll rarely fatal, but imagine you’ve got a parent who is vaccine hesitant enough to create their own schedule. Now the delayed MMR causes a seizure. What chances do you think you have now of getting them to continue the rest of the vaccinations? None, that’s what you’ve got. You had your chance, and you blew it, and that kid is never getting another vaccine again. Number 4 isn’t to be underestimated, either. Too often, “we’ll do it next time,” turns into “we never did it.” That’s true of dieting, of exercise, of cleaning out the garage, and of vaccination. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2016, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/109 "2016-09-03T19:02:33Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > If there is absolutely anything to any part of vaccination contraindications, it is, or eventually will be found to be in the massive shotgun of vaxes given in combination, especially the first few rounds. Read the rest of my post, in which I go to some length explaining just how many germs kids are exposed to every fucking day, and how it happens. All a vaccination is is exposure to one specific microbe. > [@](#): > > Most dog breeders, for example, strongly recommend spacing out puppy vaxes, because they’ve seen pups sicken and die from getting the full slate in one day. Oh, like a typical dog breeder knows any more about medicine than Jenny McCarthy. And we are talking about animals that stick their noses into each other’s butts, seemingly to no ill effect. > [@](#): > > I can think of no reason except convenience and cost to the medical profession not to space out infant and toddler vaxes a little bit. It seems very much to be a “can’t hurt, might avoid even rare complications” sort of move. The convenience is also for the parents, who don’t have to make the time for eight or ten different doctor appointments. And it really is a “can’t hurt, might avoid even rare complications” sort of move to do them in combination. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2016, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/110 "2016-09-03T19:35:45Z")
I am dissapoint. No one is going to comment on my very harsh crtitiuque of the US for the blowback on vaccination by the methods used of the Osama Bin Laden raid. Sorry this is not something you can just ignore ith as a very serious price, eg taking 20 years more to eliminate Polio from the Planet. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2016, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/111 "2016-09-03T19:48:32Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Read the rest of my post, in which I go to some length explaining just how many germs kids are exposed to every fucking day, and how it happens. All a vaccination is is exposure to one specific microbe. Or a dozen, in some vax sessions. If kids are so exposed all the time, I guess they don’t need vaxes, then, right? They’re just sniffing all the antibodies they need out of each others’ butts. And yeah, I do rank the opinion of a DVM from Davis with an Sc.D. (I think) in immunology from Stanford who works in research and happens to raise dogs as a hobby pretty highly. Especially for one of her pups. But I’ll leave you to the froth. Mrs. B. needs some help with a presentation for the doctoral seminar that’s capping off her 25+ years in autism therapy development. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2016, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/112 "2016-09-03T19:59:18Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > My current breeder lost pups in litters of recent years from overvaccination; she’s a qualified vet and no longer allows her pups to be mass vaccinated. It’s been no trouble to take my boy to his favorite vet here three times instead of once. I’m willing to sacrifice a tad of convenience for his possible benefit. Read it again, nothing what you report is based on research, only anecdote; and it does not deny the other point: human vaccines have been tested already, applying what is happening to dogs to humans is just anti vaccination pap. > [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Not liking an argument because a group of shitheads uses it doesn’t invalidate it. The only - ONLY - reason for mass vaccination is convenience, as defined by insurance companies and HMOs. Maybe there are vanishingly few problems with mass vax; there are fewer with spreading them out over a short time. It doesn’t mean I stand with the flat-earthers or am giving them aid and comfort by saying so. Of course it is not my problem that you show to all that you can not check links or read cites. Claiming that that is the ONLY reason shows only that you are just going into lala land and woo woo circles. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2016, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/113 "2016-09-03T20:05:21Z")
I spend a fair amount of time on a board with a lot of anti-vaxxers. There is no argument you can make that they don’t have a an answer for. An answer that’s wrong or illogical but that they’ll cling to with a tenacity that is truly impressive. They believe virtually every diagnosis a child ever gets is a vaccine injury…it goes way beyond autism. Autoimmune problem? Vax injury. ADHD? Vax injury. Processing disorder? Vax injury. Speech delay? Vax injury. Motor skill issue? Vax injury. Chronic ear infections? Vax injury. Fell down and broke your arm? Vax injury (not kidding). They even have the mysterious “their eyes just look DULL” vax injury that I’ve certainly never noticed in my kids or any of their friends. They believe that vaccines don’t prevent disease, those diseases were going away anyway due to clean water and sanitation. Don’t bother pointing out that some of these diseases were prevalent long after those developments, and that those same diseases are being eradicated in places that don’t have reliably clean water and sanitation. They’ll handwave those facts away. They believe that herd immunity through vaccines is a myth and that herd immunity develops only with “true” immunity that people get through having the disease. Don’t try to argue that herd immunity is kinda worthless if everyone has to have the disease first in order for it to exist…they think disease-induced immunity is far superior for mysterious reasons. They believe that the smallest, worst-designed, least-robust studies are superior to all others if they show any kind of correlation between vaccines and a health problem, forget about asking about causation…that hasn’t been found because no one wants to find it, and the drug companies smooth over and sidestep any data that doesn’t show that vaccines are 100% safe. Don’t bother arguing that if something’s not statistically significant, then it’s not and that studies don’t look at individual cases for a reason. Seriously, there is nothing…_nothing_ that will convince these people. And it’s difficult because many of them have their own observational data that tells them that _their child_ was injured by a vaccine, so if you argue that it’s likely not the case you just look like an unsympathetic asshole. It’s an issue that thanks to Mr. Wakefield will always be with us. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2016, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/114 "2016-09-03T20:12:36Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Or a dozen, in some vax sessions. > > If kids are so exposed all the time, I guess they don’t need vaxes, then, right? They’re just sniffing all the antibodies they need out of each others’ butts. Missing the point idiotically. It is an idiot argument here because the point about the capability of the human immunological system was made to counter the idiot argument that humans can not deal with multiple inoculations. Unfortunately the bugs that we can get in epidemics are not available in controlled or inert dosages around us to make our own vaccines. > [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > And yeah, I do rank the opinion of a DVM from Davis with an Sc.D. (I think) in immunology from Stanford who works in research and happens to raise dogs as a hobby pretty highly. Especially for one of her pups. Again, unless you do think that dogs have the same immunology system as humans your point is idiotic to use for human vaccines that have been tested already many times and used too millions of times with virtually no effects as the ones the Vets you point at claim it is happening among dogs. > [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > But I’ll leave you to the froth. Mrs. B. needs some help with a presentation for the doctoral seminar that’s capping off her 25+ years in autism therapy development. As long as she is not letting you apply your apples to the oranges she is presenting she will be fine. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2016, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/115 "2016-09-03T20:17:49Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > And yeah, I do rank the opinion of a DVM from Davis with an Sc.D. (I think) in immunology from Stanford who works in research and happens to raise dogs as a hobby pretty highly. Especially for one of her pups. Make sure to feed your kids a balanced diet to keep their noses wet and coats glossy :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Kimera757](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kimera757/32/3765_2.png) [@Kimera757](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimera757)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2016, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/116 "2016-09-03T20:18:53Z")
I wonder what causes otherwise educated people to believe in this rot. In Canada, my country, a fellow who operates a natural food store let his kid die of meningitis rather than take him to a hospital. They would rather use natural remedies: > [@](#): > > In a bid to boost his immune system, the couple gave the boy — who was lethargic and becoming stiff — various home remedies, such as water with maple syrup, juice with frozen berries and finally a mixture of apple cider vinegar, horse radish root, hot peppers, mashed onion, garlic and ginger root as his condition deteriorated. By the time they took the child to a hospital, it was too late, he didn’t make it. Here’s a link: [http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/jury-trial-truehope-toddler-dies-trial-underway-1.3479460](http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/jury-trial-truehope-toddler-dies-trial-underway-1.3479460) In South Africa, there’s a wide AIDS-denying movement. They’re not saying being poor puts you at risk of AIDS, they’re saying poverty **causes** AIDS. Unfortunately, presidents after Nelson Mandela believed in this nonsense too, including the current president, Jacob Zuma. Zuma, when the health minister, allegedly raped an HIV-positive woman (he knew she was HIV-positive, and claimed it was consensual), a serious crime by itself, then delivered some “health advice”: > [@](#): > > During the trial, Zuma admitted to having unprotected sex with his accuser, whom he knew to be HIV positive, but claimed that he took a shower afterwards to cut the risk of contracting HIV. This statement has been condemned by the judge, health experts, AIDS activists and the public in general. He was found not guilty, and didn’t die an ironic death. (Luckily for him, the transmission rate isn’t 100%, but the shower did nothing to reduce the risk.) Link: [Jacob Zuma rape trial - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Zuma_rape_trial) > [@Nava](#): > > In Spain you can lose custody of your children if you refuse to get them the required vaccinations. If a child can’t have them for a medical reason that goes to their medical history, but the only acceptable reasons are medical ones. Other than that, the few unvaccinated people we have are almost 100% immigrants (there are occasional pockets of very low-income-level people who haven’t registered the kids or ever taken them to a doctor out of a general “don’t trust the man” mindset; when these are detected, doctors are taken to them). There was another thread a few weeks ago about taking children away from unskilled parents. I wish this had been mentioned in that thread. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2016, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/117 "2016-09-03T20:32:07Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Missing the point idiotically. My point is simple: I can’t think of any situation where acting for the convenience of the institution produces a better situation for the consumer or individual. Vaccines are not special snowflakes in this regard, and I’m going to remain suspicious any time we’re asked to do something that just happens to be (1) massively profitable or (2) exceptionally convenient for those making the demand. If you want to think I’m somehow a Jenny McCarthy fan because of that, fine. Great tits. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2016, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/118 "2016-09-03T20:37:15Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > My point is simple: I can’t think of any situation where acting for the convenience of the institution produces a better situation for the consumer or individual. Vaccines are not special snowflakes in this regard, and I’m going to remain suspicious any time we’re asked to do something that just happens to be (1) massively profitable or (2) exceptionally convenient for those making the demand. > > If you want to think I’m somehow a Jenny McCarthy fan because of that, fine. Great tits. I don’t understand. They’d make more money if they only let you get one vaccine at a time, and you needed to pay a visit fee and administration fee each time. How do they make more money doing several vaccinations at one visit? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2016, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/119 "2016-09-03T20:51:17Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > My point is simple: I can’t think of any situation where acting for the convenience of the institution produces a better situation for the consumer or individual. Again, telling all that you are not looking at the links provided is not a way to convince others, you only show to all that 1) you can not reply to the evidence presented and 2) you are looking more like an idiot for not taking into account what was presented before, this is because this was linked already too and clearly willfully ignored by you as you have demonstrated: > **[Delaying Vaccines Not A Good Idea](https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/delaying-vaccines-not-a-good-idea/)** > > Evil Mr. Vaccine and the consequences of vaccination.There's nothing like cold hard data to counteract opinion and propaganda. The anti-vaccine movement hit upon a clever marketing phrase with the > [@](#): > > The recommended vaccine schedule is not, it turns out, arbitrary or designed to maximize the profits of the vaccine industry. The Center for Disease Control (CDC) recommended vaccine schedule is designed to give children vaccines as soon as they need them and are old enough to handle them – maximizing benefit while minimizing risk. Booster shots are optimized to produce a sufficient antibody response for maximal protection. I don’t think anyone would argue that the schedule is perfect, but it is rational and evidence-based. > > Also, no one argues that the risk of vaccines is zero. No medical intervention has a zero risk. In medicine we look at risk vs benefit. Vaccines have one of the highest (if not the highest) benefit to risk ratios of any major medical intervention we have developed. It is ironic that it is attacked by ideologues as unsafe. > > One potential risk of vaccines is that the immune response they elicit may cause a fever which in turn might cause, in susceptible children, a febrile seizure. In rare cases vaccinations have been followed by encephalitis (brain inflammation) with not only seizures but more serious neurological complications. The incidence of post-vaccination encephalitis is 1-2 cases per million vaccines, and this is just association, without knowing how many represent true cause and effect. > > A recently-published study sheds further light on the risk of seizures following vaccination, and also compares the recommended vaccine schedule to delayed schedules.” Timely Versus Delayed Early Childhood Vaccination and Seizures“, was recently published in the journal, Pediatrics. They found: > > ``` > METHODS: In a cohort of 323 247 US children from the Vaccine Safety Datalink born from 2004 to 2008, we analyzed the association between the timing of childhood vaccination and the first occurrence of seizure with a self-controlled case series analysis of the first doses of individual vaccines received in the first 2 years of life. > RESULTS: In infants, there was no association between the timing of infant vaccination and postvaccination seizures. In the second year of life, the incident rate ratio (IRR) for seizures after receipt of the first measles-mumps-rubella vaccine (MMR) dose at 12 to 15 months was 2.65 (95% confidence interval [CI] 1.99–3.55); the IRR after an MMR dose at 16 to 23 months was 6.53 (95% CI 3.15–13.53). The IRR for seizures after receipt of the first measles-mumps-rubella-varicella vaccine (MMRV) dose at 12 to 15 months was 4.95 (95% CI 3.68–6.66); the IRR after an MMRV dose at 16 to 23 months was 9.80 (95% CI 4.35 –22.06). > > ``` > > What this means is that, in the first year of life, there was no difference in seizure risk between children who received the full vaccine schedule on time, and those who had delayed or reduced vaccines. In this age group, alternate vaccine schedules had no benefit on the risk of seizures. > > In the second year of life, however, those who delayed the MMR vaccine to 12-15 months had almost triple the seizure risk, while those delaying to after 16 months had a 6 times greater risk. This increased risk was even higher for the MMRV vaccine. > > This data strongly suggests that getting vaccines on time has a lower risk of post-vaccination febrile seizures than delaying to the second year of life, when the inherent risk is greater. > > While this is a large study with rigorous methods, it is a retrospective cohort study, not a prospective randomized study. Therefore it is possible that there are confounding factors. Still it provides strong evidence that the current vaccine schedule is superior to alternative or delayed schedules. Bottom line: when you continue to tell us after that that you can not think of “any situation” were the vaccines are given not just because of the convenience of the institutions you are indeed only depending on woo woo sources; and no, the vets that you are using as a source for this is an attempt at comparing apples and oranges. Simply an stupid point. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2016, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626/120 "2016-09-04T00:47:03Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > How do they make more money doing several vaccinations at one visit? In the magic space of his empty fucking head, all things are possible. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-vaxxers-are-ignorant-scumbags-that-kill-children/764626.md?page=7)