# Anti-war folks...thoughts on Afghanistan? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 17, 2010, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-war-folks-thoughts-on-afghanistan/529310 "2010-02-17T07:29:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-war-folks-thoughts-on-afghanistan/529310/41 "2010-02-22T15:07:03Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > I’m more anti the idea that there is something noble and good about one side’s efforts, while the opposition’s actions are cowardly and evil. That’s true. There was a time when America was capable of respecting its enemies. I don’t get it - an enemy can be brave and honorable and still be your enemy; in fact, it makes defeating him more of an achievement, because where’s the challenge in fighting cowards? I just don’t see why everything has to be viewed through an ideological lens. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-war-folks-thoughts-on-afghanistan/529310/42 "2010-02-22T15:25:48Z")
> [@Perciful](#): > > I think the A Bomb was wasted on Japan. Afganistan would have been a much better target. Make a parking lot out of it and let it go back to being a desert. > > I am anti war but this country has been harrassing the world for too long. How does a country (and barely a country, at that) manage to harass the world when they don’t even have a pot to piss in? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-war-folks-thoughts-on-afghanistan/529310/43 "2010-02-22T16:24:33Z")
> [@](#): > > There were no “underlying causes” in the ordinary sense. As Barbara Tuchman so famously demonstrated in her masterwork The Guns of August, WWI was a huge, catclysmic blunder on all parts, the nations had constructed a machinery that, once set in motion, could not be controlled. The very fact of preparation for war made the war almost inevitable. In all the capitals, sensible men looked at the monstrous machine lumbering towards doom, all of them clamored for reason and good sense to prevail, but none could stand in the way of the juggernaut of timetables and strategic plans. The idea that the war just happened by accident was a post-war invention. After the fiasco the war became, nobody wanted to admit they had entered it willingly. Austria, Germany, and France were seeking a war in 1914 for what they saw as rational and obtainable goals. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-war-folks-thoughts-on-afghanistan/529310/44 "2010-02-22T17:33:20Z")
> [@Perciful](#): > > I think the A Bomb was wasted on Japan. Afganistan would have been a much better target. Make a parking lot out of it and let it go back to being a desert. > > I am anti war but this country has been harrassing the world for too long. You must read different history books than the rest of us! Afghanistan has been minding its own business for literally thousands of years, while being attacked by Alexander the Great, the Soviet Union and various powers in between. When the Soviets went to war there, the U.S.A. decided to play the “Great Game” and armed the Taliban! Great fun!! After the Soviets withdrew, British experts informed U.S.A. that their job wasn’t finished, but a leading American official famously replied “We don’t do windows”; went looking for a Great Game to play elsewhere; Afghanistan sank into ruin. Yes, Taliban is despicable. Less so than certain hypocrites in Washington, D.C. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-war-folks-thoughts-on-afghanistan/529310/45 "2010-02-22T17:38:31Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Aren’t most zombies Muslim? Silly person, human brains are not Halal. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-war-folks-thoughts-on-afghanistan/529310/46 "2010-02-22T17:59:53Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > I think that’s an utterly stupid reason to withdraw from the war. That’s okay. Ask me what I think about your opinions some day. > [@](#): > > It’s quite frankly being an ass in international foreign policy. That’s because I’m pissed off. > [@](#): > > It’s a minor diplomatic problem that can be worked out in a few hours long meeting by the Undersecretary of State and the Assistant Foreign Minister or something. Now that I know you see the torture of your allies as a minor diplomatic problem instead of a gross violation of human rights I’m even more pissed off. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-war-folks-thoughts-on-afghanistan/529310/47 "2010-02-22T18:10:21Z")
What does the end look like? We can not occupy the country forever or for that matter at all. We have to leave eventually. What remains?, A country controlled by warlords and drug cartels? They will have a government of our choosing. A corrupt one that will demand American taxpayer money to survive. It is an old story played out on another stage. It does not work. They get resentful . The people will throw out the government sooner or later. Then what? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-war-folks-thoughts-on-afghanistan/529310/48 "2010-02-22T18:21:35Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > You must read different history books than the rest of us! Afghanistan has been minding its own business for literally thousands of years, while being attacked by Alexander the Great, the Soviet Union and various powers in between. When the Soviets went to war there, the U.S.A. decided to play the “Great Game” and armed the Taliban! Great fun!! Actually, the Afghans invaded India and Persia several times, even going so far as to briefly conquer the latter country (1722-1729). No country has ever just “minded its own business” ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-war-folks-thoughts-on-afghanistan/529310/49 "2010-02-22T21:24:19Z")
> [@Perciful](#): > > Der Trihs, > > War is hell. Or it used to be. Now it is just an endless “ring around the rosies”. Oh, please. We inflict plenty of hell on the people we attack. And such tough guy phrases aren’t an excuse for genocide; it sounds a lot less dramatic and admirable to say “let’s massacre an entire country that can’t fight back!” > [@Perciful](#): > > It is sometimes neccessary when one is under attack to fight back. If they won’t surrender after a while you need to up the anti. So, you want to kill millions of people, the vast majority of whom aren’t even involved? > [@Perciful](#): > > My Dad is a Veteran and he was a hero. Not for having to kill but for saving my life and my Country. The difference today seems to be not in war itself but the way we wage it. So, your Dad killed off an entire country, like you want us to? I must have missed when we did that recently. > [@Perciful](#): > > I have to go to work, I love my jobs, my home and my country! God Bless America.. The genocidal version of America you want deserves to be destroyed, not blessed. You sound like you’d have loved working for Stalin; you have his attitude on how to deal with problems. “No people, no problems.” ---
**Author:** ![carm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@carm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carm)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-war-folks-thoughts-on-afghanistan/529310/50 "2010-02-22T22:28:50Z")
> [@GoodOmens](#): > > The initial invasion of Afghanistan was predicated on the shaky connection of radical Islam=Al-Qaeda=Taliban=Afghanistan. > [@Quartz](#): > > There was nothing shaky about it at all. The Taliban openly supported OBL and refused to give him up. So I presume you would support an Iraqi invasion of the US, if they refused to hand over George Bush or Dick Cheney? And if Canada had not handed over [Marc Emery](http://www.straight.com/article-277561/vancouver/upbeat-emery-way-jail), I presume you would support a US invasion of Canada? ---
**Author:** ![Perciful](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b38774/32.png) [@Perciful](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Perciful)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-war-folks-thoughts-on-afghanistan/529310/51 "2010-02-23T04:15:55Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Oh, please. We inflict plenty of hell on the people we attack. And such tough guy phrases aren’t an excuse for genocide; it sounds a lot less dramatic and admirable to say “let’s massacre an entire country that can’t fight back!” > > So, you want to kill millions of people, the vast majority of whom aren’t even involved? > > So, your Dad killed off an entire country, like you want us to? I must have missed when we did that recently. > > The genocidal version of America you want deserves to be destroyed, not blessed. > > You sound like you’d have loved working for Stalin; you have his attitude on how to deal with problems. “No people, no problems.” I’m not going to dignify this with a comment. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-war-folks-thoughts-on-afghanistan/529310/52 "2010-02-23T04:28:33Z")
> [@Perciful](#): > > I’m not going to dignify this with a comment. “Dignify”?! You, not I are the one calling for nuclear genocide. ---
**Author:** ![Perciful](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b38774/32.png) [@Perciful](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Perciful)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-war-folks-thoughts-on-afghanistan/529310/53 "2010-02-23T04:37:49Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > What does the end look like? We can not occupy the country forever or for that matter at all. We have to leave eventually. What remains?, A country controlled by warlords and drug cartels? They will have a government of our choosing. A corrupt one that will demand American taxpayer money to survive. It is an old story played out on another stage. It does not work. They get resentful . The people will throw out the government sooner or later. Then what? That is what I’m wondering. This war is going no where. These people love to fight. They will fight until the end of time and if we think we are going to change that we are sadly underestimating our enemy. They consider us infidels, not friends. Why can’t we just let the Middle East do what they love so much. They love to fight so let them fight each other. So we have two choices. We can withdraw or up the anti. In the first part of the century the object of war was to win. If we couldn’t win then we would withdraw or surrender. These long drawn out occupations are a waste of time, money, lives and a diversion from our real problems. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-war-folks-thoughts-on-afghanistan/529310/54 "2010-02-23T14:36:59Z")
> [@Perciful](#): > > Why can’t we just let the Middle East do what they love so much. They love to fight so let them fight each other. I’m sure “the civilised world” would love to let them knock the shit out of each other, if they could guarantee it wouldn’t affect any of our interests. ---
**Author:** ![Perciful](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b38774/32.png) [@Perciful](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Perciful)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-war-folks-thoughts-on-afghanistan/529310/55 "2010-02-23T14:53:30Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > I’m sure “the civilized world” would love to let them knock the shit out of each other, if they could guarantee it wouldn’t affect any of our interests. Very Astute observation. I forgot about “Our Interests”. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-war-folks-thoughts-on-afghanistan/529310/56 "2010-02-23T15:14:25Z")
> [@Perciful](#): > > These people love to fight. So true about these people, hmm? Just an all out animalistic lot, aren’t they? Savages, even. Always fighting, never giving us a moment’s peace at home. Oh, what a … Burden it is to try and civilize them, wouldn’t you say? > [@](#): > > Why can’t we just let the Middle East do what they love so much. They love to fight so let them fight each other. Afghanistan isn’t in the Middle East, no matter what the Bush government thought. ---
**Author:** ![daveg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5ac83/32.png) [@daveg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/daveg)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-war-folks-thoughts-on-afghanistan/529310/57 "2010-02-23T15:47:12Z")
FYI. Tonight (at least in the Chicagoland area) Frontline is going to report on the Taliban. Somehow they recently got to spend some time with them. One preview scene I saw last night, was a group of Taliban guarding what looked to me to be bails of poppy, the currency they use to fund their war effort. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-war-folks-thoughts-on-afghanistan/529310/58 "2010-02-23T16:29:26Z")
> [@Perciful](#): > > This war is going no where. These people love to fight. They will fight until the end of time and if we think we are going to change that we are sadly underestimating our enemy. You obviously didn’t read the poll I linked to on the last page about the actual views of these violent barbarians. It’s much easier to make cartoonish stereotypes seem real if you are unwilling to read anything about the views of the people you’re talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Perciful](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b38774/32.png) [@Perciful](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Perciful)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-war-folks-thoughts-on-afghanistan/529310/59 "2010-02-23T20:20:29Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > You obviously didn’t read the poll I linked to on the last page about the actual views of these violent barbarians. > > It’s much easier to make cartoonish stereotypes seem real if you are unwilling to read anything about the views of the people you’re talking about. Look the truth is the truth. I’m not good at putting spin on the Afghans like our media is. Today I read they want to take back control of the elections so how much progress have we made? Zilch. Sorry, I will check out your link. ---
**Author:** ![Aelita\_Daystar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@Aelita\_Daystar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aelita_Daystar)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-war-folks-thoughts-on-afghanistan/529310/60 "2010-02-23T23:52:39Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > These are folks who deliberately and with malace built IED’s in the shape of toys to target children and then dropped them in their thousands across the country side. Are you referring the the “Butterfly Mines”? The whole thing about them deliberately being made to look like toys is just old propaganda that people still believe. There have been many cases where children picked up the mines because they thought it was a toy, but it’s shape is actual for aerodynamics for when you drop them out of the aircraft. I’m really sick of seeing that myth repeated. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-war-folks-thoughts-on-afghanistan/529310.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-war-folks-thoughts-on-afghanistan/529310.md?page=4)