# Anti War Republicans? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 28, 2003, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-war-republicans/164772 "2003-03-28T13:58:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![McDuff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@McDuff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/McDuff)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-war-republicans/164772/1 "2003-03-28T13:58:47Z")
[Salon article about Howard Dean](http://www.salon.com/politics/wire/2003/03/28/dean_tone/index.html) You need to sit through Salon’s adverts to get to this article, but it’s not too much of a problem. For those who don’t want to, the bit I’m really interested in was this: > [@](#): > > A Democratic nominee who criticizes the war during the primary could have trouble appealing to moderate and conservative voters in the general election against Bush, said University of Vermont political science professor Garrison Nelson. > > **"The war doesn’t cause any ambiguity among Republicans** , but this is a battle among Democrats," Nelson said. “And it will get nastier before it gets nicer.” Is that true? Are there really no anti-war Republicans, or at least so few as to be statistically insignificant? If so, why is this? ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-war-republicans/164772/2 "2003-03-28T14:10:32Z")
Conservative columnist Robert Novak opposed the war. A few other Republicans opposed going into the war. However, Republicans tend to favor military action more than Democrats. Generally, Democratic administrations favor social spending and Republicans favor military spending. Also, Republicans tend to be more patriotic and rally around the President. Furthermore, this war is led by a Republican President. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-war-republicans/164772/3 "2003-03-28T14:15:37Z")
Wanna hear something funny? A Google search for “anti-war republicans” turned up this. [http://slate.msn.com/id/27730](http://slate.msn.com/id/27730) > [@](#): > > **Yankee Go Home > Who’s leading the anti-war movement? Congressional Republicans.** \<\< excellent! \>\> \<\< scans rapidly through first paragraph \>\> \<\< ah ha! a relevant quote! \>\> > [@](#): > > \*\*…In past wars, Republicans accused these domestic opponents of sabotaging American morale and aiding the enemy. But in this war, Republicans aren’t bashing the anti-war movement. They’re leading it. > > Last weekend, three of the top five Republicans in Congress–Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott of Mississippi, Senate Majority Whip Don Nickles of Oklahoma, and House Majority Whip Tom DeLay of Texas–went on television to discuss the war. Here’s what they said: > > 1. The atrocities are America’s fault. “Once the bombing commenced, I think then [Slobodan] Milosevic unleashed his forces, and…\*\*” \<\< Milosevic?? \>\> \<\< scrolls back up to top of article \>\> \<\< checks date \>\> \<\< May 7, 1999? \>\> \<\< well, shit \>\> 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-war-republicans/164772/4 "2003-03-28T17:34:42Z")
Pat Buchanan. > **[The American Conservative](https://www.theamericanconservative.com/)** > > The American Conservative exists to promote a “Main Street” conservatism that opposes unchecked power in government and business; promotes the flourishing Republicans in the mainstream do seem to have bought into the idea that being Republican means always being pro-war, regardless of the issue – which I had always thought was more of a Dem. slander/caricature. ---
**Author:** ![Who\_me\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/958977/32.png) [@Who\_me\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Who_me_1)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-war-republicans/164772/5 "2003-03-28T17:44:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > \*\* Also, Republicans tend to be more patriotic… \*\* Would you mind if I asked for a cite for this? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-war-republicans/164772/6 "2003-03-28T17:44:46Z")
When did Buchanan return from Reform? ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-war-republicans/164772/7 "2003-03-28T18:50:47Z")
Buchannan is conservative but i don’t think he is still republican. He is against the “War Party” as he calls it. ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-war-republicans/164772/8 "2003-03-28T19:10:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SimonX \* > \*\*Buchannan is conservative but i don’t think he is still republican. He is against the “War Party” as he calls it. \*\* Wow, it’s a cold cold day when I find out I agree with Buchanan on something. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Avalonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@Avalonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avalonian)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-war-republicans/164772/9 "2003-03-28T19:27:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Who\_me? \* > \*\*Would you mind if I asked for a cite for this? \*\* I’d certainly love to see what **december** comes up with to support that little snipe about “patriotism.” Perhaps a blogger’s opinion, or a quote from the RNC website. Also, I wonder how it is that more Republicans “rally around the President.” Clinton, anyone? Yeah, right. :rolleyes: Cite for that too, please. This should be good. _laugh_ ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-war-republicans/164772/10 "2003-03-28T19:41:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Avalonian \* > \*\*I’d certainly love to see what **december** comes up with to support that little snipe about “patriotism.” Perhaps a blogger’s opinion, or a quote from the RNC website. \*\* I just took it for granted that so-called “patriotic organizations” like the American Legion or Daughters of the American Revolution tended to be conservative. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-war-republicans/164772/11 "2003-03-28T19:45:47Z")
Huh. From what I’ve seen, organizations that care most about this country’s values – groups like the ACLU – are pretty liberal. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![leander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@leander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leander)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-war-republicans/164772/12 "2003-03-28T19:51:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > **Also, Republicans tend to be more patriotic…** **december** , you are completely full of shit. Just because Democrats might show their patriotism in different ways (than simply and blindly clapping their hands for war) does not make them any less patriotic. You have just lost all credibility and respect, as far as I’m concerned. ---
**Author:** ![Avalonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@Avalonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avalonian)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-war-republicans/164772/13 "2003-03-28T19:53:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > \*\*I just took it for granted that so-called “patriotic organizations” like the American Legion or Daughters of the American Revolution tended to be conservative. \*\* Ah… so yet another unsupported assertion from you. Never mind the idea that the NAACP and (as **DanielWithrow** points out) the ACLU, also what I would consider “patriotic” groups in that they hold American values to a high standard, do not “tend” to be conservative. Can we expect a retraction on this point? How about the “rally around the President” comment? That horse doesn’t even leave the gate, if you apply even a modicum of thought to it. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire2b](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@voltaire2b](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire2b)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-war-republicans/164772/14 "2003-03-28T20:08:45Z")
An important Republican against the war is the former U.N. Weapons Inspector, Scott Ritter. He was in the Marine Corps. > [@](#): > > Mr. Ritter is a patriot, a man with an astounding record of service to his country. He is a card-carrying Republican who voted for Bush in the 2000 election. … Mr. Ritter’s time with UNSCOM came to a controversial conclusion in 1998, the details of which are described in my interview with him. He has argued vehemently before assembled groups, on television, and on radio, against the Bush administration’s stance towards Iraq. For doing so, he has been labelled a traitor and an Iraqui agent. Source: William Rivers Pitt, Preface to William Rivers Pitt, with Scott Ritter _War on Iraq: What team Bush Doesn’t Want You to Know_ (New York: Context Books, 2002) It’s a small, short, compact book which I highly recommend, precisely because it comes from a conservative (and an intelligence officer, a former member of the Marine Corps and U.N. Weapons Inspector) who thinks that the war on Iraq is very very dangerous for America and the world. > [@](#): > > PITT: Your’e a Marine Corps veteran, an officer, an intelligence officer. You spent seven years chasing down these weapons in Iraq to guarantee the saftey and security not only of this country, but of that region of the world. Yet there are some in this country who call you a traitor for speaking about these things the way you do. How do you respond? > > RITTER: People can say what they want, but I think the people who say that betray their ignorance. There’s this little thing called the Constitution of the United States of America. When I put on the Marine Corps uniform and was charged with being an officer of the Marines, I took an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic. That means I’m willing to lay down my life for that piece of paper and what it represents. That document speaks of we the people, and of government by the people, for the poeple. It speaks of freedom of speech, individual civil liberties. … That’s why I speak out – to bring insights to bear that might not otherwise be heard. Rather than being a traitor, I think my speaking out is the most patriotic thing I can do right now (pp.73-74). ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-war-republicans/164772/15 "2003-03-28T20:21:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > Also, Republicans tend to be more patriotic and rally around the President. “We can support our troops without supporting the President.” - Trent Lott Do you simply enjoy doing this? ---
**Author:** ![Hermann\_Cheruscan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b782af/32.png) [@Hermann\_Cheruscan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hermann_Cheruscan)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-war-republicans/164772/16 "2003-03-28T22:58:59Z")
> [@](#): > > Huh. From what I’ve seen, organizations that care most about this country’s values – groups like the ACLU – are pretty liberal. That is the funniest thing I’ve read all week! ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-war-republicans/164772/17 "2003-03-28T23:00:33Z")
Does one have to be an “influencial” Republican to count? I have been opposed to this action from the start. The President had not proven to me that a substantive risk to the safety of the US existed before he invaded Iraq. As a former member of the Armed Forces, I would completely support a mlitary action which served to protect my country, but I cannot condone an act of aggression born of fear. We are Americans, dammit. We’re supposed to be the good guys, the ones who respect international law. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-war-republicans/164772/18 "2003-03-28T23:07:42Z")
There is a huge article on antiwar conservatives in this week’s National Review by David Frum. Though the title – “Unpatriotic Conservatives: A War on America” – is inflammatory (IMHO, regrettably so): and the tone a little heated for my taste, it’s a good overview of the topic. ---
**Author:** ![Danimal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bb73d2/32.png) [@Danimal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danimal)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-war-republicans/164772/19 "2003-03-28T23:27:50Z")
The little data I have been able to find on the Net supports **december** ’s contention. From [http://www.hamilton.edu/Levitt/surveys/patriotism/](http://www.hamilton.edu/Levitt/surveys/patriotism/) > [@](#): > > There is a large gap in patriotic feelings among high school seniors between Democrats and Republicans. Seventy-two percent of Republicans consider themselves Extremely or Very Patriotic, compared with 41 of Democrats and 48 percent of Independents. From [http://www.washtimes.com/national/20020906-32874672.htm](http://www.washtimes.com/national/20020906-32874672.htm) > [@](#): > > Down party lines, 74 percent of Republicans said they were patriotic, compared with 61 percent of Democrats and 53 percent of independents. This is not a selection of the best sources I could find: this is _everything_ I could find that was based on poll data rather than subjective impressions. Any other sources would be potentially interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Airblairxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Airblairxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airblairxxx)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-war-republicans/164772/20 "2003-03-28T23:50:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Danimal \* > \*\*The little data I have been able to find on the Net supports **december** ’s contention. > > From [http://www.hamilton.edu/Levitt/surveys/patriotism/](http://www.hamilton.edu/Levitt/surveys/patriotism/) > From [http://www.washtimes.com/national/20020906-32874672.htm](http://www.washtimes.com/national/20020906-32874672.htm) > > This is not a selection of the best sources I could find: this is _everything_ I could find that was based on poll data rather than subjective impressions. Any other sources would be potentially interesting. \*\* Sooo . . . you’re saying that because someone identifies themselves as patriotic, they are therefore patriotic? Without even defining the word “patriotic”? In defense of **december** , maybe he was simply trying to say that organizations that wrap the flag around themselves, loudly trumpeting their patriotism, tend to be conservative. In other words, liberal organizations don’t much feel the need to proclaim their red-white-and-blueness (with the possible exception of People for the American Way). This to me has little to do with what the true meaning of patriotism is, although lord knows the Republicans have been trying to appropriate the word for everything from imperialist aggression to tax cuts for the richest 1% of all taxpayers. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-war-republicans/164772.md?page=2)