# Anti War Republicans? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 28, 2003, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-war-republicans/164772 "2003-03-28T13:58:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Danimal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bb73d2/32.png) [@Danimal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danimal)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2003, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-war-republicans/164772/21 "2003-03-29T00:05:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Airblairxxx \* > \*\*Sooo . . . you’re saying that because someone identifies themselves as patriotic, they are therefore patriotic? Without even defining the word “patriotic”? \*\* Yes, in the absence of evidence to the contrary. I would also tend to assume that people who identify themselves as Methodist are therefore Methodist, and that people who identify themselves as baseball fans are therefore baseball fans. Certainly they might be lying, but I see no basis for assuming that they are. > [@](#): > > **In other words, liberal organizations don’t much feel the need to proclaim their red-white-and-blueness (with the possible exception of People for the American Way).** That may be true. On the other hand, it requires evidence. Perhaps you have some. ---
**Author:** ![Danimal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bb73d2/32.png) [@Danimal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danimal)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2003, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-war-republicans/164772/22 "2003-03-29T00:10:32Z")
Sorry, I meant to add that I think defining patriotism for the purposes of such polls would be an exercise in futility. It is a word that means starkly different things to different people, even within the parties themselves, to say nothing of the different definitions between the two parties. ---
**Author:** ![Airblairxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Airblairxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airblairxxx)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2003, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-war-republicans/164772/23 "2003-03-29T00:20:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Danimal \* > \*\*Sorry, I meant to add that I think defining patriotism for the purposes of such polls would be an exercise in futility. It is a word that means starkly different things to different people, even within the parties themselves, to say nothing of the different definitions between the two parties. \*\* That’s the point I was trying to make, as to why the polls you cited were useless. ---
**Author:** ![barton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@barton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barton)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2003, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-war-republicans/164772/24 "2003-03-29T00:30:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Danimal \* > \*\*Yes, in the absence of evidence to the contrary. I would also tend to assume that people who identify themselves as Methodist are therefore Methodist, and that people who identify themselves as baseball fans are therefore baseball fans. Certainly they might be lying, but I see no basis for assuming that they are. > \*\* Would you assume, then, that people who identified themselves as humble were therefore humble? It’s like the joke where more than half of people think they’re above-average drivers. ---
**Author:** ![Exgineer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a88e4f/32.png) [@Exgineer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exgineer)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2003, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-war-republicans/164772/25 "2003-03-29T02:07:51Z")
This is just personal junk, so it probably doesn’t count in the larger debate. I’m a registered to vote as a Republican. I made that decision at the ripe old age of 18, and I have never seen anything that made me want to change my mind since. I’m “conservative” in the current parlance. I opposed the war. It wasn’t the knee-jerk anti-establishment “violence is never the answer” bullcrap that certain groups are promoting now. I just didn’t see anything in the Administration’s presentation that justified invading a soverign nation. Since the damned thing started though, I’ve changed my mind. Part of this change of heart can be attributed to the informal research I’ve done into the conditions the Iraqi people are currently living in. Their per-capita income should be among the highest in the world, yet they scrabble for food and water. They could be summarily executed for expressing their opinions of their government. I fully support all members of the U.S. armed forces involved in this war. Including my brother, because he’s scrambling around getting his kit together in preparation for deployment. I pray that he returns home safely, along with the rest of his comrades. I now believe he’s going to be doing the right thing. ---
**Author:** ![Danimal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bb73d2/32.png) [@Danimal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danimal)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2003, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-war-republicans/164772/26 "2003-03-29T02:13:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by barton \* > \*\*Would you assume, then, that people who identified themselves as humble were therefore humble? > > It’s like the joke where more than half of people think they’re above-average drivers. \*\* I submit that your analogies do not apply. To state that one is humble is to ascribe a virtue to oneself, which is the opposite of humility. By contrast, to state that one is patriotic is not inherently self-contradictory. Driving is a skill that is objectively measurable, such as by accident records or scores on driving tests. Patriotism is a state of mind. I do not see how we can claim to have better knowledge of a person’s state of mind than that person himself has. If a person’s own assessment of his state of mind is not valid evidence as to that state of mind, what evidence is acceptable? ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2003, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-war-republicans/164772/27 "2003-03-29T12:57:38Z")
The dictiontionary says _patriotic_ means, “inspired by love for your country.” So, a patriotic slogan would be, “My country, right or wrong.” This is why patriotism is not necessarily a good thing. That’s why Samuel Johnson said it was. “the last refuge of the scoundrel.” What may be confusing some posters is that “unpatriotic” is a slur. The word indicates more than not being inspired by love for one’s country. It means actively showing a lack of love of country or disloyalty. To say that Democrats tend to be less patriotic than Republicans does not imply that Democrats are more unpatriotic than Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2003, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-war-republicans/164772/28 "2003-03-29T13:33:48Z")
The _real_ **december** has gone missing. He’s been replaced by his rational doppelganger again. ---
**Author:** ![Danimal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bb73d2/32.png) [@Danimal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danimal)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2003, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-war-republicans/164772/29 "2003-03-29T14:19:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Airblairxxx \* > \*\*That’s the point I was trying to make, as to why the polls you cited were useless. \*\* Because the issue being polled means different things to different people, the poll is therefore useless? To be Catholic means different things to different people also. Therefore a poll showing Catholics to be more socially conservative than non-Catholics is useless? To support President Bush means different things to different people also. Some support him because he’s from Texas, some support him just because they hate Democrats, some support him because they (gag!) like his policies. Therefore polls (and even elections!) are useless? I’m afraid your argument is subject to _reductio ad absurdum_. The fact that patriotism means different things to different people does not bear on the fact that more Republicans than Democrats consider themselves patriots according to their own personal definitions of patriotism. If I had cited a poll stating that more Democrats than Republicans consider themselves liberal, no one would have raised any objections to it, despite the fact that “liberal” certainly means different things to different people. ---
**Author:** ![Who\_me\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/958977/32.png) [@Who\_me\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Who_me_1)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2003, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-war-republicans/164772/30 "2003-03-29T16:06:52Z")
[quote] _originally posted by december_ What may be confusing some posters is that “unpatriotic” is a slur. The word indicates more than not being inspired by love for one’s country. It means actively showing a lack of love of country or disloyalty. To say that Democrats tend to be less patriotic than Republicans does not imply that Democrats are more unpatriotic than Republicans [quote] This is too ridiculous a thought for rational comment. Do you really believe this? ---
**Author:** ![Who\_me\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/958977/32.png) [@Who\_me\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Who_me_1)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2003, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-war-republicans/164772/31 "2003-03-29T16:08:07Z")
Damn, sorry. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire2b](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@voltaire2b](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire2b)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2003, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-war-republicans/164772/32 "2003-04-07T15:29:29Z")
Here’s a piece from the [Washington Post](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A16764-2003Mar23.html) from the [American Conservative](http://www.amconmag.com/03_24_03/cover.html) here the [National Review (Frum)](http://www.nationalreview.com/frum/frum031903.asp) and [American Conservative (Novak)](http://www.amconmag.com/03_24_03/review.html) and [Frum again](http://www.nationalreview.com/frum/diary032503.asp). I haven’t had time to digest any of these, but they’re there for anyone who’s interested. Must go. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anti-war-republicans/164772.md?page=1)