# Antibiotic Use vs Libertarianism **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 28, 2011, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antibiotic-use-vs-libertarianism/601119 "2011-10-28T20:54:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 1\ **Showing post:** 151
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antibiotic-use-vs-libertarianism/601119/151 "2011-11-25T15:40:41Z")
> [@David42](#): > > …making them fill out forms that show they didn’t do anything wrong so the regulator can have a job filing the forms… > > … the “proactive” illusion of a beauracrat shuffling forms concerning issues that everyone already knows… > > …subject to forms and entanglements (driving their costs up) to provide some worthless bum a job… > > …Why regulate by having paper shufflers tell people who do not raise chickens they can’t medicate their chickens and require a form be filled out… > [@David42](#): > > … give a beaurocrat a job of having us all fill out a form… > [@David42](#): > > …I am against is giving a guy a high paying job to file forms… > [@David42](#): > > Silly Homers. Of course you have to have _them_ fill out forms. > [@David42](#): > > …would you like a donut while you fill out your forms? > [@David42](#): > > …everyone involved gets to say, “hey, I didn’t do wrong, see, I filled out all the right forms.” > [@David42](#): > > …we let individuals in corporations pass the buck with the excuse “I filled out all the right forms.” … > [@David42](#): > > …the department of defense in a recent calendar year has spent 2 billion on travel expenses and an additional 2.2 billion in shuffling forms… > > … private industry has a monumental waste caused by forms that prove they didn’t do wrong, they pass the cost on to you… > > … when they do commit wrongs, the forms were all filled out “properly” anyway… > [@David42](#): > > …Hey you know what? It’s really you who is harping on forms… Well, I think I’ve refuted that statement. Now for the others. > [@David42](#): > > …Your above argument has already been refuted previously by showing that regulatory agencies are inferior to other forms of “regulation” because > > a) Regulatory agencies make laws at the will of unelected bureaucrats and the people have no say nor notice of regulations. Regulatory agencies make rules, not laws. And the laws that create the regulatory agency give it specific authority to create those rules. And so the rules made are in fact a direct reflection of the intent of the elected legislators who created and empowered the regulatory agency. People have a say through the electoral process. And as for a lack of notice – well, that’s just ridiculous. All those forms and all that paper shuffle you object to constitutes ample notice. > [@David42](#): > > b) Regulatory agencies have revolving door employment with the industries they are supposed to control and they are corrupt as a result. Most industries have captured their agencies long ago. Cite for “most”? And pray tell how this will differ when we have street cops interpreting the “law” prohibiting antibiotic dispensing for non-bacterial infections? As I noted above, such a system will require its own bureaucracy of experts, these now being employed by the police departments instead of the “regulatory agency”, who will have all the same temptations and opportunities as regulatory bureaucrats do now. > [@Nothing But Net: Recordholder?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nothing-but-net-recordholder/72639/12): > > c) Regulatory agencies are duplicative of much existing criminal and civil law and are therefore wasteful. Get rid of duplicative government functions. Cite for this duplication? And if it exists, why not get rid of the statutes and ordinances instead of the regulatory agencies? > [@Nothing But Net: Recordholder?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nothing-but-net-recordholder/72639/12): > > d) Regulatory agencies pay large salaries to people to shuffle papers on the premise that shuffling papers over non-problems will somehow prevent the real problems that happen REGARDLESS of how many papers are shuffled. Again you repeat this article of faith but again you fail to provide any evidence for it. And I note that you’ve replaced the word “forms” with the word “papers” but the statement remains the same. > [@David42](#): > > e) Regulatory agencies create a climate of thinking that no-one is responsible for anything that goes wrong as long as everyone can say he signed the right form. Most regulatory agency fines are jokes compared to the profits of violators. Regulatory agencies are not effective on terms of the punishment fitting the crime. Cites for any of these assertions? And if the punishments aren’t sufficient for your taste, why not advocate for increased penalties instead of discarding the system? Further, you still have not explained who on the corporate ladder (President of the Board, CEO, Second Undersecretary to the Divisional Vice President, least senior secretary, mail clerk?) you plan to throw into jail for violating your “laws”. Nor have you offered the means by which a conviction could be obtained that wouldn’t require its own mountain of evidentiary paper shuffle. Nor explained how that evidence would be gathered, organized and communicated from police to investigators to prosecutors and on to judges and juries without massive stacks of forms-- and people paid handsome salaries to manage them. > [@David42](#): > > The whole upshot is that regulatory agencies are pretty much a feel-good measure that a Congressman can point to to show he has an issue under control, so that he doesn’t have to bother to deal with it himself. > > Your arguments seem to avoid addressing all these issues in favor of making fun of an objection to excessive form signing. I’m not simply making fun of your objection to form signing, I’m making fun of a ridiculous proposal – that we replace regulations with either nothing at all, or with “laws” to be enforced through the criminal justice system. I have addressed and refuted each and every one of your arguments. You have failed to support any of your blanket assertions, although you continue to repeat them. The fact of the matter is that regulatory agencies by and large have been quite effective in at least mitigating and often in preventing harm to the citizenry and our society at large. Epidemic disease is low, as are food poisoning, defective/dangerous/ineffective consumer goods, nuclear and indeed, almost any category of industrial accidents, and a host of other issues have been quite successfully addressed (although not totally eliminated) by our present system of regulation. Heck, in the words of Pete Seeger, “We’re swimming in the Hudson again!” --- _[View the full topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antibiotic-use-vs-libertarianism/601119)._