# Antifa terrorist attacks ICE detention center, gets killed **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 14, 2019, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053 "2019-07-14T03:15:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2019, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/61 "2019-07-14T23:33:43Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > All this guy did was get Antifa discredited. He didn’t even inflict any casualties. Antifa is a left wing movement and therefore automatically “discredited” in the eyes of most Americans no matter what any of them do. Just as right wingers can kill anyone they please and _not_ be “discredited”. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2019, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/62 "2019-07-15T00:04:40Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I’m the one that provided the cite wherein the dead terrorist declared “I am antifa”. That you continue to struggle with this concept is a source of amusement for me. It literally can’t get any more cut-and-dried than this. That was not the cite I was responding to that you were using to claim that the facebook group he was a part of was some sort of antifa. Try to keep up. > [@](#): > > Sorry-not-sorry about your dead comrade. Hmm, never heard of him before, but he does sound like a gun nut to me, sure he’s not one of your buddies? See, this guilt by association thing can go on all day, and is pretty pointless tactic for you to try, and all to avoid the question that you so desperately want to avoid, and that is whether you are anti-fascism, or if you are pro-fascism. I suspect that you will continue to avoid answering such a simple question. Let’s see, your side has the KKK, the Proud Boys, the Nazis and the Confederates. You have people who shoot up churches and send bombs to news agencies and politicians. You have people who will threaten violence against their government in an armed standoff over grazing rights or over a conservation area, or to protect a white man from going to a rather cushy jail cell as a consequence of committing arson, to cover up evidence of poaching and endangering firefighters. In order to try to “whataboutism” your way into defending the violent facist bigots that you support, you have to create this boogieman of “ANTIFA” into some sort of super terrorist organization that gives out superpowers and free ponies. Otherwise, you may have a “[Are we the baddies](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn1VxaMEjRU)” moment of your own. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2019, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/63 "2019-07-15T00:11:25Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Yes. And your point? Do you believe that anyone who is against fascism is in some nebulous group called antifa? > > In order for your question to be anything other than intentional gaslighting, then that means that you are either not against fascists, or you consider yourself to be a member of antifa. Which is it? I’d like to see an answer to this question. Are you, **HurricaneDitka** , anti-fascist or not? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2019, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/64 "2019-07-15T00:33:35Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It’s virtually the same system in place from the previous administration. No it is not. Illegal entry is a misdemeanor. Under a 1997 court order, unaccompanied youths arriving at the border could be incarcerated. Under Obama, people who arrived with no claim for amnesty or sanctuary were deported. People who claimed sanctuary were released until their pleas could be heard. (Overburdened immigrations courts were still very slow processing them.) Trump (Sessions) changed the arrival rules so that people claiming sanctuary had to wait to make their claim and the rules were changed to allow more to be called illegal immigrants instead of asylum seekers, then were locked up until their claim date came up, then, despite it being a misdemeanor, Trump and co. said that they could not hold their children with their parents, so ripped the kids away, pointed to the kids as (now) “unaccompanied” and put them in separate holding cells. This is not the same system, despite the law-breaking rump administration’s claim. The same laws are on the books, but they are being twisted to cause as much harm as possible. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2019, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/65 "2019-07-15T01:57:01Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Antifa is a left wing movement and therefore automatically “discredited” in the eyes of most Americans no matter what any of them do. Just as right wingers can kill anyone they please and _not_ be “discredited”. Antifa is a movement that wears masks, delights in street violence, and behaves nearly exactly like the Sturmabteilung they claim to be fighting against. I guess irony is dead. They should be discredited. Along with the Klan, the New Black Panther Party, MS-13, and any other political group committed to using violence to attain their goals. Go ask Andy Ngo about them and their willingness to use violence against the non-violent Enough Antifa groups around the Web are mourning this shithead as if he were a kindred spirit. The Left delighted in tarring anyone vaguely conservative, with the actions of the turd in Chancellorsville who ran over protesters. Don’t cry when the same thing happens to those on the left because some elderly burnout decided to start killing ‘concentration camp’ guards ahead of schedule. Besides, relax. White guy, left-wing motivated, incompetent----can’t even get a good assault weapon banning from his actions: this guy’ll be out of the news by Tuesday. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2019, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/66 "2019-07-15T02:04:16Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > So, lets let you win your argument here. Lets say that Obama started this program, and that Trump has done absolutely nothing but continue it in Obama’s honor. We should even call them Obama camps. > > Are you against them now? of course not. A President is responsible for the security and well-being of his country and that includes the borders. This was not an issue with previous presidents but suddenly it’s an issue. Nothing has changed except the party affiliation of the President. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > Nice attempt at playing the race card there, It wasn’t an attempt. What you said was flat out hateful racist bullshit. It was offensive. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2019, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/67 "2019-07-15T02:07:55Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > Enough Antifa groups around the Web are mourning this shithead as if he were a kindred spirit. About how many groups around the Web are mourning this guy? How many people do you think are mourning him? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2019, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/68 "2019-07-15T02:10:06Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > No it is not. > Illegal entry is a misdemeanor. and illegal. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2019, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/69 "2019-07-15T02:13:28Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > The Pugent Sound John Brown Gun Club describes itself as “[an anti-fascist, anti-racist, pro-worker community defense organization committed to accountable, community-led defense in the Puget Sound (aka Salish Sea) region of western Washington, in the Pacific Northwest, USA.](https://psjbgc.org)” > > What do you think? Big “A” Antifa or little “a”? This is bonkers. You can see the a’s in your own post right? ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2019, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/70 "2019-07-15T02:58:41Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > … with this toe-tagged dipshit? Hahahahaha! At least some one got shot to death, ammirite? Hilarious. Post a youtube link so we can all entertain ourselves. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2019, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/71 "2019-07-15T03:00:00Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > Antifa is a movement that wears masks, delights in street violence, and behaves nearly exactly like the Sturmabteilung they claim to be fighting against. Pure nonsense, there’d be corpses everywhere. Of course we all know that the rule is if you are right wing you can rape, torture and murder with impunity to the cheers of the populace & approval of the law, while if you are left wing you’ll be condemned for violence if the people beating you to death bruise their fists. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2019, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/72 "2019-07-15T03:00:48Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I’d like to see an answer to this question. > > Are you, **HurricaneDitka** , anti-fascist or not? I think it’s fair to characterize someone who is anti- anti-fascist as pro-fascist. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2019, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/73 "2019-07-15T03:03:48Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > of course not. A President is responsible for the security and well-being of his country and that includes the borders. This was not an issue with previous presidents but suddenly it’s an issue. Nothing has changed except the party affiliation of the President. Except it has. > [@](#): > > It wasn’t an attempt. What you said was flat out hateful racist bullshit. It was offensive. Woooooooosh! ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2019, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/74 "2019-07-15T03:19:44Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I think it’s fair to characterize someone who is anti- anti-fascist as pro-fascist. That’s fair. But it seems strange to me that someone who is asked a direct question like “Are you anti-fascist?” wouldn’t answer it. I mean, it’s not hard. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2019, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/75 "2019-07-15T03:23:18Z")
> [@Defensive\_Indifference](#): > > It wasn’t a crisis before because we weren’t holding immigrants in deplorable conditions indefinitely before. It’s a manufactured crisis because **Trump manufactured it by establishing a gulag system!** > [@Magiver](#): > > It’s virtually the same system in place from the previous administration. > [@Defensive\_Indifference](#): > > Cite. > [@Magiver](#): > > You first OK, I finally got to a PC where I can actually copy and paste and put the right tags in. So, I made the following core claims: [ol] [li]the US is currently holding undocumented immigrants in deplorable conditions[/li][li]Trump created this situtation[/li][/ol] I will provide cites as requested to back up these claims. **The US is currently holding undocumented immigrants in deplorable conditions** In June 2019, DHS’s Office of the Inspector General inspected four detention facilities, [finding](https://www.oig.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/assets/2019-06/OIG-19-47-Jun19.pdf): > [@](#): > > Overall, our inspections of four detention facilities revealed violations of ICE’s 2011 Performance-Based National Detention Standards, which set requirements for facilities housing detainees. > > \ > > All four facilities had issues with expired food, which puts detainees at risk for food-borne illnesses. At three facilities, we found that segregation practices violated standards and infringed on detainee rights. Two facilities failed to provide recreation outside detainee housing units. Bathrooms in two facilities’ detainee housing units were dilapidated and moldy. At one facility, detainees were not provided appropriate clothing and hygiene items to ensure they could properly care for themselves. Lastly, one facility allowed only non-contact visits, despite being able to accommodate in-person visitation. A July 2019 report by DHS OIG, titled _Management Alert – DHS Needs to Address Dangerous Overcrowding and Prolonged Detention of Children and Adults in the Rio Grande Valley_ [states](https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6m3FrMzNqO5YXI2a3FmbFFIN2pMWDBjQzR6QjU2aGp1akxB/view): > [@](#): > > In May 2019, we issued a management alert about dangerous overcrowding > observed in the El Paso area during our unannounced inspections of U.S. > Customs and Border Protection (CBP) holding facilities.1 During the week of > June 10, 2019, we traveled to the Rio Grande Valley in Texas and again > observed serious overcrowding and prolonged detention in Border Patrol > facilities requiring immediate attention. The report contains photos of the conditions, which appear to be squalid. The report details the inadequate food (some detainees were fed a steady diet of nothing but bologna sandwiches) and lack of hygiene. In between the release of these reports, the Justice department argued in federal court that it had no legal obligation to provide soap, toothbrushes, or beds for detained children ([NYT article](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/25/us/sarah-fabian-migrant-lawyer-doj.html)). By any reasonable standard, the US is holding detainees in deplorable conditions. **Trump created this situation** In March 2017, Reuters [reported](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-immigration-children-idUSKBN16A2ES) that: > [@](#): > > Women and children crossing together illegally into the United States could be separated by U.S. authorities under a proposal being considered by the Department of Homeland Security, according to three government officials. > > Part of the reason for the proposal is to deter mothers from migrating to the United States with their children, said the officials, who have been briefed on the proposal. > > The policy shift would allow the government to keep parents in custody while they contest deportation or wait for asylum hearings. Children would be put into protective custody with the Department of Health and Human Services, in the “least restrictive setting” until they can be taken into the care of a U.S. relative or state-sponsored guardian. > > Currently, families contesting deportation or applying for asylum are generally released from detention quickly and allowed to remain in the United States until their cases are resolved. A federal appeals court ruling bars prolonged child detention. > > President Donald Trump has called for ending “catch and release,” in which migrants who cross illegally are freed to live in the United States while awaiting legal proceedings. John Kelly [confirmed](https://www.cnn.com/2017/03/06/politics/john-kelly-separating-children-from-parents-immigration-border/) to CNN that the administration was considering this policy shift as a way to deter immigration. Then, beginning in the summer of 2017, HHS OIG [began recording](https://www.oig.hhs.gov/newsroom/news-releases/2019/uac.asp) a “steep increase in the number of children who had been separated from a parent or guardian by the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) and subsequently referred to [the Office for refugee Resettlement] for care”. This was approximately a year before the Trump Administration announced that the “Zero Tolerance” policy on undocumented immigrants would be implemented. The the policy officially went into effect, marking a departure from previous administrations. As [explained](https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2018/jun/06/what-you-need-know-about-trump-administrations-zer/) by Politifact: > [@](#): > > Before Trump came into office, families were detained together, sent back immediately or paroled into the country, said Peter Margulies, an immigration law and national security law professor at Roger Williams University School of Law. Now, prosecution is happening across the board and has become the uniform policy. > > \ > > When an adult is referred for prosecution, a child traveling with the adult is turned over to the U.S. Health and Human Services Department. That agency is responsible for placing the child with a sponsor as the child’s immigration case is resolved. > > \ > > Prosecutions were rare prior to the Trump administration, partly because they cost a lot of money and are time-consuming, Margulies said. “Previous administrations felt broad use of the ‘prosecute-first’ option was needlessly harsh,” he said. These reports indicate that the law has long provided the _option_ of detaining migrants prior to adjudication of their cases, but this was seldom done. The Trump administration began using this law to detain all undocumented migrants attempting to cross the border, resulting in overcrowding, poor conditions, and family separations. This was done expressly as a means of deterring border crossings. - **Magiver** , you stated that this is “virtually the same system in place from the previous administration”. I now ask you to support this claim.\* ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2019, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/76 "2019-07-15T04:04:58Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I think it’s fair to characterize someone who is anti- anti-fascist as pro-fascist. By this logic, if you are anti- the pro-life side (in abortion), are you pro-death? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2019, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/77 "2019-07-15T04:09:57Z")
That’s not very good logic, **Velocity**. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2019, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/78 "2019-07-15T04:13:06Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > By this logic, if you are anti- the pro-life side (in abortion), are you pro-death? That is certainly the rhetoric of both sides of that argument. But I haven’t heard a good PR spin on those who are worried about antifa. The op wants to call them “terrorists”…but… _redacted_ ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2019, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/79 "2019-07-15T04:23:14Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > That’s fair. But it seems strange to me that someone who is asked a direct question like “Are you anti-fascist?” wouldn’t answer it. I mean, it’s not hard. I doubt you and I agree enough about who the fascists are in modern-day America to make an answer to that question worthwhile, and besides that, my position on fascists isn’t the topic of the thread, your (general you, I have no idea if you personally identify with Antifa or not) dead Antifa comrade is. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2019, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/80 "2019-07-15T04:31:46Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I doubt you and I agree enough about who the fascists are in modern-day America to make an answer to that question worthwhile, and besides that, my position on fascists isn’t the topic of the thread, your (general you, I have no idea if you personally identify with Antifa or not) dead Antifa comrade is. In other words, you won’t answer a direct question. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053.md?page=5)